Washington - Use of silencers/suppressors approved by Senate

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Pretty foolish law to begin with... fine to own, but not use.

State senate approves use of gun 'silencers'

BELLEVUE, Wash. -- Wayne Gaughran has an entire case full of noise suppressors at his Eastside Gun Store. For years, he has been allowed to sell the several hundred dollar devices. The catch, owners can’t use them in our state. “ It puts me in a tough spot says Gaughran.”

Today the state senate unanimously approved bill 1016 which the House already passed 88-4.
The bill’s sponsor Representative Bryan Blake a Democrat from Aberdeen says a constituent came up with the idea but it was also supported by State Sheriff’s and Police Chiefs. “Hollywood Movies have stigmatized the silencers,” say Blake “ they show them as the bad guys guns.” But Representative Blake says they are “Legitimate tools’ and purchasers will have to go pay $200 and undergo an extensive federal background check.

http://www.king5.com/news/local/State-Senate-approves-use-of-gun-silencers-118894639.html

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

1. Silencers are safety devices. Makes shooting at the range much more pleasant.

Especially when shooting rifles or large bore handguns. IMO, it's no different than engines using mufflers... helps with hearing safety and cuts back on excessive noise.

I'm glad washington is finally changing its law. I always thought it was stupid to allow the purchase and possesion of a silencer... but it was illegal to actually *use* it.

[onehandle]

2. That's Fantastic!

This is the BEST NEWS EVER.

LOnG YeaRS oF sUFFerinG ARe fINalLy OVer!

Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!

[Remmah2]

4. So much for silence. nt

nt

[AtheistCrusader]

6. So are the police. The state prohibition on use of a silencer had no exemption for LEO.

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9. At least in that regard...

the law was fair.

Under no circumstance should law enforcement agencies/officers be bestowed exemptions or special privileges that civilians
can't enjoy as well.

[Euromutt]

46. The law was fair, its enforcement was not

Because in practice, rather than get the law (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.250) changed, successive state Attorneys-General and public prosecutors simply declined to prosecute law enforcement officers and agencies who actually used suppressors for their intended purpose, even though everybody knew any SWAT/SRT member who actually fired his weapon was committing a gross misdemeanor every time.

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10. And the beat goes on, the beat goes on...

Drums keep pounding a rhythm to the brain
La de da de de, la de da de da...

[Bold Lib]

17. I don't think they will be free. You will have to actually pay for them. Plus the $200.00 tax to

the Feds. Cost of the fingerprints and passport photos also need to be considered.

[timo]

20. skip all that

and get a trust, much easier less hassle with local leo's

[Straw Man]

19. Pretty colors...

[lawodevolution]

23. Based on your logic car brakes are useless, using rope when

"This is the BEST NEWS EVER.

LOnG YeaRS oF sUFFerinG ARe fINalLy OVer!"

climbing mountains is useless because sometimes you can still fall even if you had ropes. Hard to take anything you post seriously and this post is just as childish and jpakish as your President Reagan thread.

[timo]

3. GO WASHINGTON

I own several and they are the shizz!!!
makes my sbr uzi sound like a sewing machine, and I have a .22 thats integrally suppressed...pellet gun quiet!!!


and at 200 dollars per transfer stamp thats a shitload of money going in to the government coffers, plus the economic stimulation of new sales and markets....un rec that haters!!

[rrneck]

7. What kind of. 22 is it? nt

[timo]

8. ruger 10 22

standard ruger 10 22, ported barrel and integral can by murray urbach I have a swr spectre too thats a screw on, on a little ruger 22 45.

[rrneck]

13. Well, now you've done it. nt

[timo]

15. ?????????

what i done did?

[rrneck]

21. Got me wanting one.

:rofl:

[timo]

22. I really do

suggest you try one out, I have one for a 5.56 that is hearing safe so you can shoot an ar 15 and NOT have to wear ear muffs/plugs, and the one I have is not even really all that fancy....I have one for 9mm and 2 for 22's, once you buy and shoot one......your hooked!!

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PavePusher]

11. Perilously close to advocating/inciting violence....

and just fuck all that "civility" bullshit, eh?

[ileus]

12. I've been wanting a can for my AR's but I'm too cheap.

[DonP]

14. Not an option in Illinois, neither is Class III ntxt

[Bold Lib]

16. Great news.

I once turned down a very good job offer in Washington because of their silencer laws.

[Starboard Tack]

18. Boy we just keep getting smarter and smarter. Bigger with less bang.

Now we don't have to worry about disturbing the neighbors and the girls are gonna go wild.:toast:

[PavePusher]

24. You're right.

I'm gonna go straight out and take the mufflers off my cars and motorcycles. And lawn mower. And chain saw. And chipper and rototiller and tractor and.....

[Starboard Tack]

25. All those killing tools? You gotta be kidding!

How the heck are you gonna get away with running your neighbor over with your lawn mower now?

[rrneck]

28. He can't run very fast.

:rofl:

[PavePusher]

29. Do you really think I want to put suppresors on all my firearms....

so that I can go out and start killing people?

Because that was exactly your insinuation.

[Starboard Tack]

32. No I don't think that, not unless you're a professional assassin

So, what would you need them for, besides the range, where they have earmuffs and aiming with a silencer sucks, especially at a distance. So, the only other reason I can think of is shooting in residential areas, so as not to disturb the neighbors, in which case shhhhhhhh!

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

33. Depending on the type of shooting you're doing, aiming with is just fine.

You can get sights for most pistols that are about a 1/4" taller so your notch and post sit higher than the suppressor (google "raised pistol sights").
Some "eccentric" design suppressors have the bore off center so the top of the suppressor sits low enough that regular sights can see over the tube (like the YHM Maxim, AAC Blackbox, or SilencerCo Osprey).
Or you could shoot with both eyes open... if you focus on the target & front post, your brain will superimpose the images from both eyes to form a complete sight picture in your mind.
And when point-shooting (quickly shooting using sight picture instead of lining up the sights) the suppressor is a great pointing frame of reference since the tube of the suppressor is perfectly coaxial with the barrel... basically, just use the long silencer tube as pointer for quick easy aiming.
And if your shooting a rifle, it won't matter because just about every rifle's sight or scope already sits higher than suppressors.
There's 5 reasons why silencer do not have to "suck" ;)

Suppressors also aid in a few areas. They considerably reduce felt recoil better than any muzzle brake could. They reduce muzzle flash. They allow you to hear other things around you instead of attenuating ALL sound like earmuffs or earplugs. And a good modern silencer will produce tighter shot groups (better precision) due to consistently contolling the expanding the gasses expanding around the muzzle.

In short, they makes guns quieter, easier, and more accurate shoot while also protecting the ears of bystanders as well.

[PavePusher]

39. It would be nice to be able to use them for legal hunting....

so as not to bother others in the area, increased hearing protection (unless you are using very small, sub-sonic rounds, you still need ear-pro), ranges that have been on-site for 50 years won't get so many complaints from idiots who built their house 200 yards away last year....

There are a multitude of possibilities, none of which will result in the descent of the celestial arena.

[Starboard Tack]

65. That's just wonderful

Use them for hunting? I want to hear that gun. I want to know where other hunters are out there in the woods. You want everyone roaming around hunting with silencers? If you're worried about your ears use a bow.

Not to mention it really takes the sport out of hunting. More like snipering.

[X_Digger]

67. Those damnable Fins and their scurry supressors..

http://www.guns.connect.fi/rs/Reflex.html

The T8 Scout Reflex Suppressor has become the favorite of hunters, target and sports shooters in Finland, Sweden, Norway and UK, where suppressors are free to use or only partially restricted. Already several thousand Reflex Suppressor units are being used by Finnish hunters to protect themselves against loss of hearing and to safeguard their dogs against total deafening. "Nobody in our hunting party shoots any more without a suppressor", reported a hunter, "as two of our best hunting dogs got deafened by shots that took place too near!" Then, how do the authorities think? The official Finnish view to firearms suppressors is shown in the joint Suppressor Project Summary.

[Starboard Tack]

68. I guess it's been a while since I went hunting

Thanks for the link

[slackmaster]

74. You're not OK with someone using a suppressed firearm, which can be heard, but OK with using a bow

Which often can't be heard.

Ha ha ha, that's very logical.

:crazy:

[Starboard Tack]

87. I think bow hunting is a lot more logical and sporting

It's basically the difference between how Native Americans hunted bison and European Americans wiped them out. How logical was that?

[slackmaster]

89. The issue is not subsistence hunting vs. unregulated hunting

I give up.

[Euromutt]

90. "How Native Americans hunted bison"? Ever hear of a "buffalo jump"?

One method Native Americans used was to cause a herd to stampede and then drive them over a cliff (the so-called "buffalo jump"), which frequently resulted in a damn sight more animals dying than the tribe could eat. Do not imagine for a second that Native Americans never wasted prey. Another method was the so-called "buffalo pound," in which the animals were lured or stampeded into a box canyon, where they were methodically slaughtered.

Bowhunting by individuals only became popular after the plains Indians adopted horses, prior to which they had no means to keep pace with a running bison.

[timo]

76. ???

you don't have a clue about using a can on a gun do you?? even with a can its still not holly wood quiet

[rl6214]

81. You do know it's not like in the movies, don't you?

It reduces the sound from 150db to maybe 130 db. That's still fairly loud, just not so loud that it would cause hearing damage.

It's not like on tv where all you hear is a pffft. That's for James Bond or Jason Bourne.

[PavePusher]

83. It sounds like you don't know much about suppressors.

They by no means make your shooting silent. For your average hunting round, the shooter would still want to wear hearing protection when taking the shot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppressor

May I suggest you know what you are talking about before making spurious assumptions and insinuations.

[AtheistCrusader]

45. It's a requirement at shooting ranges in many places in Europe.

Such as the UK. Thought the pro-regulation folks wanted to emulate the UK, and others?

[Starboard Tack]

64. Links please

They do sell silencers for air guns in the UK
http://www.wighillparkguns.co.uk/products/products_category.asp?cat=158

[AtheistCrusader]

69. Sure.

In the UK almost all long guns are sold with threaded barrels. You can't take the gun and the silencer home, they stay there in the secured storage of the gun club/range. The suppressor is licensed like a firearm.

Most if not all indoor ranges require it. (not a legal requirement, a 'goddamnit that's loud' requirement)

http://tfrwiki.midworld.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Suppressor

In finland, suppressors are totally unregulated, and it is considered a courtesy for people to use them, so other people don't have to listen to it.

Europe has a very different outlook on suppressors than the US, where here, they are viewed as assassination tools or something.

[Starboard Tack]

70. OK my mistake. I haven't been around long guns in a while

I was thinking more in terms of handguns. Of course, Finland does have one of the highest suicide rates in the world, about 4x the UK and double the US. They are very polite people, though, and don't like to disturb the neighbors.

[AtheistCrusader]

71. I can't find any solid info on suppressed handguns in the UK.

For some reason, it's hard to find UK laws at all. I must be going about it wrong.

[Starboard Tack]

73. It's kinda moot as handguns are pretty much banned anyway

Pistols

UK law defines a "pistol" as a gun with a barrel shorter than 30 cm or a total length of less than 60 cm. Only muzzle-loading pistols - including muzzle-loading revolvers - are permitted. De facto such firearms use Black Powder - a Class 1 explosive - as the propellant. All other pistols are prohibited on the UK mainland, though there are some exceptions, such as pistols used for the humane dispatch of injured animals (such as deer) and some historical firearms, though these are only permitted if kept and used at an approved club. Aside from special temporary exemptions for major events such as the 2012 Olympics, pistol shooting for sporting purposes has been banned since 1997. As a result, the GB pistol squad has to practice abroad.

[Straw Man]

78. What does the suicide data have to do with it?

Of course, Finland does have one of the highest suicide rates in the world, about 4x the UK and double the US. They are very polite people, though, and don't like to disturb the neighbors.

"Of course"? Please explain.

[Starboard Tack]

88. Duh! ...they don't like to disturb the neighbors

Humor. hahaha you know. Oops sorry, forgot about the straw thing

[slackmaster]

55. It's hard to come up with a weaker argument than your opinion of someone else's needs

Especially when need is not relevant.

[Starboard Tack]

63. Well excuse me for trying to have a conversation with someone.

I was just curious. Didn't mean to offend anyone by using the dreaded "need" word. Feel free to educate me without insulting me. I'm here to learn.

[timo]

75. aiming with a suppressor sucks???

do tell, do tell I have several and I dont get what your talking about here!!

[DissedByBush]

48. The absolute best use for a silencer

Doing target practice with a bolt-action rifle without pissing off your neighbors due to the noise.

The rest, well, it's not like it's in a movie.

A 9mm with a silencer is still pretty damned loud.

The 'pfft' of the movies is complete BS.

And a silencer on a revolver, that's just a big laugh. They just don't work on a revolver.

[Straw Man]

51. Silenced revolvers.

And a silencer on a revolver, that's just a big laugh. They just don't work on a revolver.

They do on a Nagant. Cocking the hammer makes the cylinder cam forward and seal to the barrel.

[DissedByBush]

54. Did not know that, thanks for the info

But I'm sure criminals making silenced kills with hundred year-old revolvers is a big problem.

[PavePusher]

56. It'll happen....

any day now.

Or so we're told.

[Straw Man]

57. You're welcome.

Beware of KGB agents bearing Jules-Vernish handguns...

[Euromutt]

79. There's a couple of caveats to that, though

The first is that the Nagant uses a round--7.62x38 Russian--that is unique to that gun, and is quite difficult to acquire. I think Fiocchi is the only company that manufactures it right now, and they only make an FMJ "target load" that's weaker than the original issue ammo. The Nagant will actually handle both .32 S&W Long and .32 H&R Magnum (though the latter is also next to impossible to find these days), but then you don't have the recessed case forming the gas seal, which negates the point of putting a suppressor on the gun.

Then there's the issue of actually recreating a "BraMit device" (suppressors for the Nagant were designed by the Mitiny brothers; in Russian, "Bratya Mitinikh," shortened to "BraMit"). Reliable information on their designs is pretty scanty. The best I can find are these pictures:



This is an "expansion type" suppressor, with ten 8mm rubber baffles. Problem is that it destabilized the regular flat-nosed bullets, so special cartridges had to be made to work with this suppressor.



This suppressor is ridiculously complex. It requires a round consisting of a .22-cal bullet set into a .32-cal sabot; the sabot is caught by a rotating drum built into the suppressor, and the wielder would then have to rotate the drum to eject the sabot so that another round could be fired.

So the two suppressors both known to work for the Nagant both require highly specialized version of a round that already extremely difficult to get hold of.

[DissedByBush]

86. We definitely must keep suppressors banned

This shows exactly why, they're so dangerous. :)

[gejohnston]

26. that is

why they are used in parts of Europe where they are unregulated. Like France for example. Some parts of Finland, their use is mandatory because of noise pollution concerns. I say we adopt the silencer control laws of UK, France, Norway, Finland, and New Zealand.

[slackmaster]

35. Why don't you care about protecting peoples' hearing?

Serious question. Why?

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PavePusher]

30. You have just accused thousands of innocent people....

of being, or wanting to be, criminals.

I think you owe a retraction and apology.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

31. If I got 3 silencers... does that make me a terroristic-criminal-hitman?

[Hoyt]

42. Only if you walk down the street with one. Otherwise, play with them in the privacy of your home.

Or blast away on the range or in the woods. Just throw away your hi-cap mags.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

43. I once open carried a Glock 9mm with a Gemtech suppressor attached.

walking around is fine, but sitting down with 10" of extra stuff screwed onto the end is awkward.
Other than a few looks it was no big deal.

[Hoyt]

62. Sound disappointed that you only got a "few looks." Why would you do that anyway?

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rl6214]

85. How can you "sound disappointed"

on an internet discussion board?

Making things up in your own mind, again?

[rl6214]

84. "Just throw away your hi-cap mags"

What's this got to do with this thread?

[Hoyt]

34. More toys to attract the kiddies.

[rl6214]

36. It's already been shown here the benefit to shooters

So how are they toys and how do they attract "kiddies"?

[rrneck]

37. YOU certainly show an interest.

[PavePusher]

40. You don't like your hearing much, do you?

You must lump it in with those pesky Rights you bitch about all the time.

[Hoyt]

41. Stick plugs in your canals and blast away.

[PavePusher]

49. Can still do hearing damage, even with plugs and muffs.

Your ignorance is showing... again.

And it's well past tiresome.

Though this would explain your tone-deafness...

[Hoyt]

53. Maybe you ought to find a new passion.

[PavePusher]

58. I should have been more clear...

That would occur mostly with large caliber firearms and/or muzzle brakes. I also "triple-up" by using electronic noise-cancelling muffs. And since I've spent 20+ years as a military aviation mechanic, damaging my hearing via recreational shooting is one of the least of my worries, as long as I take reasonable care. But the risk is still there, and anything I can do to minimize it should not be penalized by exhorbitant government fines and subsequent artificial price-inflation.

It's also a matter of courtesy to the neighbors.

Lastly-- it's not a passion, more of a hobby and daily practice. You need to stop inventing/projecting.

[friendly_iconoclast]

50. And to hell with the neighbors, amirite?

Don't see too many people in favor of noise pollution these days. Then again, you are the same guy who advocated

kicking the ass of someone who is armed with a gun and filming the results....

[Hoyt]

52. You shoot in your house? Silencers, ear plugs, muffs, etc., aren't going to do you much good.

[PavePusher]

59. Who said anything about "in" a house?

My grandmother lives on approx. 80 acres in N.H., on the side of a large hill. Only 5 visible neighbors, but the sound still bounces around the vally a fair bit. I'm sure it would benefit everyone to reduce the sound level by an order of magnitude or two.

YMMV

[Union Scribe]

80. You advised upthread that people play with their "toys" inside

Now you're saying we shouldn't?

Shoulda made yourself clear before I had to break out the spackling compound.

[derby378]

38. Can legal full-auto in Washington be far behind?

Hey, Kansas repealed its own state law against civilian full-auto - it was Kathleen Sebelius herself (a Democrat) who signed the repeal order. So far, Kansas has not melted into some Mad Max anarchistic nightmare.

[gejohnston]

44. Watch this

Helmke and company will be freaking about Dillinger rising from the dead.

[Euromutt]

47. It's about time

For years, various state legislators have been trying to get bills passed to rectify this ridiculous situation, but those bills rarely made it out of committee. I think it would be highly inadvisable for the governor to veto this one; it's just not worth it.

[Upton]

60. Good...passed overwhelmingly by a blue legislature in a blue state

leading one to conclude the antis around here are not only on the losing side, but are completely out of touch with reality as well..

[Callisto32]

61. Wasn't this the state where merely threading it onto a barrel was a felony?

[AtheistCrusader]

72. Correct. Even the police couldn't use them, per the wording of the law.

[Euromutt]

77. A gross misdemeanor, not a felony, but otherwise yes. (n/t)