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Mexican Cartels Get Heavy Weapons from Central America

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one-eyed fat man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 08:05 AM
Original message
Mexican Cartels Get Heavy Weapons from Central America
According to the Latin American Herald Tribune:

"U.S. diplomatic cables disseminated by WikiLeaks and published on Tuesday by La Jornada newspaper....Items such as grenades and rocket-launchers are stolen from Central American armies and smuggled into Mexico via neighboring Guatemala...90 percent of the heavy armament Mexican security forces seize from cartel gunmen comes from Central America."

La Jornada’s publication of the cables follows revelations in the United States about a botched sting operation, “Fast and Furious,” that saw members of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives allow close to 2,000 weapons to be smuggled from Arizona to Mexico over 15 months.

Around 1,200 of the those guns were never tracked down by authorities, according to the Center for Public Integrity, a U.S. think-tank.

U.S. President Barack Obama said that neither he nor Attorney General Eric Holder gave authorization for Fast and Furious.


From the Mexican magazine Proceso, with apologies for inadequacy of translation from Spanish:

"Fast and Furious: Everybody Knew"
. . . .


"- What exactly was that operation? This Weekly asked Dodson.

"We identified a group of multiple buyers who had the task of acquiring weapons not for themselves but for others." Dodson explained that the original idea was to track all the weapons were bought in order to stop the traffickers and then to the recipients. Even the Mexican drug traffickers.

"We watched these guys when they bought the weapons, acquired 5, 10 or 20 in one visit to the gun shop. On leaving they met with others in public parks or private garages. Weapons were transferred from one vehicle to another and then taken to the recipients. "

- What happened to the weapons once they were transferred to other cars?

"We had been forbidden to detain individuals, we could not confiscate weapons or identify the people involved. Our sole mission was to observe. That's how we lost track of weapons that came to Mexico."

Even the sellers knew

. . . .

Gun shops where they bought guns and rifles also knew of the operation. The ATF asked them to participate in the case.

Dodson's account: "The gun shops were more concerned than the ATF about the multiple sales because they knew that those who were buying weapons did not want them for their personal use. With this approach, the gun shops thought they were doing the right thing, they had no idea that we (the agents) were not intercepting the weapons. "

. . . .

However, agents of the ATF in Phoenix seized only a couple of arms shipments to Mexico. "The other weapons that ended in ATF's possession were seized by other agencies and they informed us," says Dodson."


Helllloooooooooo, Andy?? Traver are you there?? Where's your sock puppet says the ATF didn't screw the pooch? More and more field agents of the ATF are coming forward and saying they were ordered to let weapons cross the border. When they questioned those orders they were told "...it had been cleared with Justice..."

Did ATF Smuggle Guns to Mexico to Justify Its Budget? You know, that's a really good question. It's also quite the discussion at CleanUpATF.org. A surprising number of field agents think so. Quite the testimony on how ethically derelict and morally bankrupt they feel the management of ATF has become.
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Atypical Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
1. Justify its budget
I have read numerous accounts from supposed ATF agents that said that the BATFE was feeling crowded out of its job. DEA was handling drug work while DHS was starting to encroach on "terrorism" grounds. There was constant pressure for what they call "stats" - numbers to justify their budget.

It would not surprise me in the slightest to find out that Gunwalker was intended to generate stats on guns going to Mexico to justify their funding.
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
2. YOOOOOO LIIIIEEEE!!!!!!!
They get those 50 cals right from Sportsman's Warehous I read it right here on DU ( I really shouldn't have to do this but..:sarcasm:)
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Remmah2 Donating Member (971 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
3. No surprise there.
What took them so long to figure this one out?

I guess I can stop looking for handgernades and .50 cal Brownings at my local gun shows.

:donut:

:sarcasm:
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Katya Mullethov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
4. One good thing to come out of this so far
I no longer see a "US Guns Fuel" story in the sidebar of EVERY news article I read online .
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rl6214 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
5. Still no widespread outrage
from the news agencies that were all reporting on Mexican guns coming from US gun shows.
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Because, as you are well aware...
...I just purchased a couple of RPGs and a shoulder-launch SAM at a Dallas gun show last weekend without even having to show my ID. It's going to be a lovely July 4 for my newborn nephew!
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-11 05:08 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. And if there was who would report it? MSNBC? NT
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Bold Lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
7. K and R!!!!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 08:18 PM
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8. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-11 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
10. not true, all their weapons come from gunshows...sheese I thought everyone knew this
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gravity556 Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-11 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
11. You mean that
our government outright lied!?! Not only that, but they misrepresented the numbers of firearms that actually came from the US? My goodness! To what end, do you think? And then the whole project gunrunner thing, telling gunshops to allow straw purchases and then hassling those same shops? Inflating numbers and then using those numbers, making an attempt to further curtail gun rights in the US because Mexico can't get a handle on crime and corruption, holy fuck, man, that's rather Machiavellian.

Anyone who knowingly participated in this goatfuck should be looking at years and years and years in prison prior to their extradition to Mexico for trial there, without regard to party. Absolutely unbelievable. And US papers that have been leading a public hue and cry about cartels getting their weapons from US gun shows should be required to print a front page retraction, informing their readers that they have been lied to, apologizing for sensationalizing a giant steaming pile of bullshit, and posting the FACTUAL numbers.

I really can't say enough bad things about this-and my fellow gun owners should be absolutely livid as well. Constant insinuation that law abiding citizens have anything to fucking do with Mexico's problems. Hell, most knowledgable gun owners have been saying this for years now-you can't walk into a gun show and toss down cash and walk out with a fucking machine gun/grenades/grenade launchers/RPG. Not only are they pretty freaking rare, they're EXPENSIVE. Why pay thousands of dollars for a full auto AK (even illegal conversions would be hard to find and expensive) when you can spend the same money for a crate or two, purchased from your friendly local revolutionaries just across the border?
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GreenStormCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-11 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
12. Reminds me of the movie, "Lord of War".
I highly reccommend the flick. It is based on true stories of international gun smuggling.
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