Who bought some high cap mags because of the threat to ban them?

[lawodevolution]

I just emptied an online store of their ak47 30 round (standard) "assault mags" at 7 bucks each.

It now says out of stock.

[doc03]

1. Non of the above I bought a Springfield XDM and it just

happened to come with two 16 round magazines. I keep one loaded with 10 rounds, I don't see the need for any more than that.

[Common Sense Party]

7. That must be the .40?

I got the XDm 9 mm and it has standard 19 round mags.

I'd like to shoot the .40 sometime.

[doc03]

9. It is a .40. I bought it for CC but soon realized it's too big and

heavy to carry. I have a Ruger LCP .380 that is a lot more practical in my opinion. It really doesn't make sense to buy a hand canon if it is at home in the gun case.

[rl6214]

11. I've got the XD45

Very solid gun.

[baldguy]

2. If you don't need them, why buy them?

And who really needs them?

[gejohnston]

4. to sell

at greatly inflated prices. As for me, they don't make "super mags" for anything I own.

[benEzra]

16. When a law is proposed to make buying spare parts for your guns a felony

When a law is proposed to make buying spare parts for your guns a felony, and those parts aren't expensive, it is wise to hedge even if such a ban actually passing is unlikely.

A criminal could probably go his entire career on a box or two of ammunition and a single magazine, but people who actually shoot guns a lot (i.e., us) go through thousands of rounds a year, and magazines wear out or get damaged from hard use.

[Atypical Liberal]

42. You might need them.

And who really needs them?

Civilians need them for the same reason that police officers and soldiers need them. All else being equal, a firearm that holds more bullets is a more effective weapon than one that holds fewer.

Why limit yourself?

[rl6214]

3. don't need to buy any standard capacity mags

I have plenty.

[RaleighNCDUer]

5. There's one born every minute. nt

[lawodevolution]

6. Yes, plenty of idiots who would support a magazine capacity limit

I could sell them off right now for 12 bucks each

I bought them for 6.90 and the shipping came out to .25 each.
But like I've done before I'll wait for a spike in price before selling.

Don't hate the playa hate the game.

[RaleighNCDUer]

8. Aw, come on, that's bush league stuff -

you could do much better as an arms dealer selling to the mexican cartels...

:eyes:

[lawodevolution]

10. Duhhh bush-league duhhhh

I'm sure you can come up with a better derogatory comment than that about it.

Just imagine what a KKK member thinks when he sees a white woman kissing a black man.

Think about what a DEA employee thinks of legal marijuana in amsterdam

How about a religious nut witnessing two men kissing

That's the position you are in right now, you are observing me practice a right that is controversial and it angers you

[Hoyt]

15. Terrible being "discriminated" against for walking in public with 31-rounder poking out of ur pants.

Imagine what the couple thinks when the "KKK member" -- or ardent gun supporting/sporting TBagger -- is standing there with a hateful look and a 31 rounder poking out of their pants.

It is ludicrous for you pro-guns-in-public guys to compare gun toting to racial discrimination, beatings, lynchings, segregated schools/facilities, etc.

[benEzra]

17. I wasn't aware the gun-control lobby was pushing a 30-round limit.

Silly me, I thought they were pushing a pre-Civil-War **10** round limit.

[Hoyt]

18. Gun Control Platform: Muzzle Loaders only, with tough mental assessment monthly.

[lawodevolution]

19. Sorry, that's not the way it is here in the US. Here freedom trumps gov fear

Of the people. In California you can open carry. In Texas you can own a 20mm Vulcan rifle. Learn to cope with reality.

So muzzle loaders never used, semi auto most popular, no mental assessment necessary. If gun control worked Nigeria would be crime free.

[cleanhippie]

24. You mean gun controllers need a tough mental assessment montly? I strongly agree!

The line forms behind you.


:rofl:

[benEzra]

26. Of course.

Which is precisely why we're fighting to preserve the rights we have.

You'd make a lot more headway if you were interested in finding common ground on criminal possession, etc. but it seems to me that this is more about punishing sinners and "idolaters" than it is about reducing criminal violence.

[Hoyt]

28. Actually it's about keeping guns and packing cowboys out of public, where they're not needed.

[benEzra]

31. Case in point.

You absolutely despise those of us with CHL's, such that you constantly frame us as "Other" and somehow morally, spiritually, psychologically, or sexually deviant. You probably devote ten times the verbage to demonizing CHL holders as you do violent criminals. Yet CHL holders are objectively not a violence problem, given that we as a group are about a factor of ten less likely to commit a violent crime than the average unlicensed adult.

Likewise owners of rifles with modern styling. Rifles are the least misused class of weapons in this country, accounting for fewer murders than clubs, knives, shotguns, and even bare hands and shoes. Yet you have poured immense energy, time, and emotion into demonizing those of us who own them.

As I said, it's not about fighting criminal violence. It's about the Cardinal Sin of owning guns for defensive purposes.

I'm not sure what has happened in your past that has led you to so vehemently class gun owners into "Hated Other" status, but if your goal is fighting criminal violence, your tactics do your effort a disservice.

[Hoyt]

39. Proliferation and glamorization of guns is the real target. Less guns better for society in Longrun

I have no love for criminals, but a bunch of public carriers ain't the answer for that. If carriers showed discretion in where they pack, that would be one thing. But they don't. They will not rest until there are guns -- with hi-cap mags or worse -- in every school, family restaurant, public park, church, etc. Sadly, most carriers really aren't packing for self-defense. If so, manufacturers wouldn't market their latest and greatest as tactical weapons.

[friendly_iconoclast]

47. Do you want us to feel bad that your particular moral panic isn't happening?

Here's a tip for you: Empirical evidence that a practice causes harm is far more effective than moral posturing. There's a

reason the Women's Christian Temperance Union is rarely heard from these days....

[Starboard Tack]

49. Right on. Common sense will win in the end.

[cleanhippie]

23. No, you need ATF permission to do that.

:eyes:

[Abq_Sarah]

12. Haven't bought any, don't need any

I have extra mags for every firearm and don't see the need to stockpile.

[kudzu22]

13. I did when my state was threatening to ban them

but not so much for the current hysteria. I did pick up a pair of 75-round AK drum magazines, but that was before the Giffords incident, and they were on sale at a good price.

[AtheistCrusader]

14. I outfitted my XD9 with 3 proper full sized mags.

No more of this 10 round nerfed bullshit. This gun was meant to hold 15, it will hold 15. Period. (I originally bought the pistol during the AWB)

I was planning on doing so anyway, so no big deal. Just added it to a shopping list.

[one-eyed fat man]

20. What about unaffected magazines?

Knob Creek was this past weekend, so I was looking for spares for some of my "Curio & Relic" stuff. Found some really great prices on Polish surplus magazines for my PPS-43. Prices were down on the "Lend-Lease" Thompson magazines coming back from Russia as well. Magazines for the S&W 76 are still scarce, that was the only one I didn't find readily available for the stuff I own.

I did also manage to score some Turkish 8mm Mauser Vickers parts. By changing the extractor, feedblock, and barrel I can shoot surplus 8mm using German Maxim belts.

The best part is the old Assault Weapons Ban did not apply to any of those guns because they are NOT semi-automatic.

[onehandle]

21. Paranoia will destroy ya.' nt

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

22. I have a case of hi-cap magazines for guns I don't even own just incase they're banned.

Either I'll have hicap mags for that kind of gun someday (after they're banned) or I'll be able to sell them at a large profit.

[slackmaster]

27. I have numerous 30-round M16/AR-15 magazines that I bought in anticipation of a state ban

Prohibition sucks.

[Hoyt]

40. Sounds like a war profiteer.

[Logical]

29. I shoot and I have no issue with a ban actually. Carry more clips if needed. n-t

[benEzra]

35. What do you shoot?

An upper bound of 20 for pistols and 30 for rifles wouldn't affect many shooters, but that's not what McCarthy et al are proposing.

[Logical]

36. I just shoot shotguns and a 9mm Ruger.....

I think a 10 bullet clips is reasonable.

[benEzra]

37. I strongly disagree.

If you wish to trade less capacity for more per-round lethality, that's a rational choice, but I have a big problem with making it a crime to choose differently.

[Logical]

38. I think the gun lobby and NRA are too much in the mode where they do not....

want any law to pass that restricts anything. Which is as crazy as the anti-gun groups who want no guns as all.

I am more of a gun owner and soon to be CCW carrier who thinks some reasonable laws are OK.

[benEzra]

44. I think reasonable gun control is OK as well. But a >10-round ban isn't remotely reasonable.

It is just as unreasonable, and just as pointless from a violence prevention standpoint, as repealing the National Firearms Act exemption for over-.50-caliber guns like yours, or a complete ban on hunting with rifles, IMO. You are talking about banning roughly a quarter billion items possessed by roughly half of all gun owners, after all---about banning standard, factory, non-extended magazines for many of the most popular rifles and full-sized pistols in the United States going back decades.

Consider this, from someone known as a gun-control lobbyist no less, speaking out on Obama's recent proposal sans magazine restriction:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/13/obama-gun-control-arizona-shooting_n_835103.html

“Actually, I like this,” emailed Jim Kessler, a former director of policy and research at Americans for Gun Safety. “There will be a knee-jerk reaction among some who will say, “Why no clip ban?” But I think on both substance and political grounds, a high-capacity clip ban is the wrong way to go. There were roughly 12,000 gun homicides last year, and I’ll wager that less than 10 were caused by bullets 11 through 30 in someone’s magazine. The problem is bullets 1, 2, and 3 –- not 11, 12, and 13."

The thing is, you shoot guns that are probably more powerful, more lethal, and more commonly misused than those I own, and yet you want to slap extreme restrictions on mine. I respect your opinion, but several times as many of us own over-10-round guns as hunt, and we'd like to retain that choice (not to mention be able to purchase replacement parts).

[Logical]

46. I would call you unreasonable. So we will agree to disagree. n-t

[benEzra]

51. Is ownership of a Marlin Model 60, a Winchester 1873, or an S&W 5906 really so unreasonable?

But yes, we'll have to just disagree on this. :hi:

FWIW, I'm looking forward to shooting my new-to-me 5906 (basically a S&W Model 59 with upgraded safety features) this weekend...I sold my Polish M44 and used the proceeds to snag one of the $299 used S&W's at CDNN this week. Range report to follow...

[Logical]

53. Cool, enjoy!

[-..__...]

30. Late Summer, 2004.

The 94 AWB was due to expire and there was a lot of uncertainty whether it would be renewed or not.

At the time, there were magazine hoarders/stockpilers/investors trying to decide what to do with their stash... unload them now (while they could still fetch a decent price), or hang on to them and watch their value increase.

In the months/years prior... used 30 round M-16/AR-15 were going for around $18.00 - $20.00 each (for which the seller probably paid $5.00 - $7.00 prior to the ban). New in wrapper mags (NIW), were selling for considerably more.

About a month prior to the sun set date, I was able to purchase NIW 30 round mags anywhere from $15.00 - $25.00 each (depending on the manufacturer).

I bought around a dozen or (my current stash is around 30).

Of course, as everyone here knows, the AWB expired and inexpensive, quality mags became available again.

Since my state (MA), still has it's own AWB, I really didn't lose out on my purchases.

It's still infuriating though that we're relegated to purchasing/owning pre-ban mags at inflated prices, when people in less restrictive states can
purchase/own newly manufactured mags at half the price. :grr:

[rl6214]

54. After the AWB expired

I found a sale on brand new in wrapper mags for around $6 each. I've been purchasing 10 or so every couple of months as they went on sale. I've probably got 100 or so for my AR15. If there is ever another ban, I am set.

[Glassunion]

32. Other...

I have not purchased any magazines specifically because of the ban. But I have purchased magazines.

I purchased a rifle that came with 2 "Assault Clips" or "Weapons of Mass Destruction" or whatever they are called now.

I did not like the magazines it came with, so a traded over to a different brand of the same(WMD) capacity.

Then since I do not like using the 30rd magazines on the bench, I bought a 20rnd magazine just for use at that range. My local gun shop did not even have any 10rnd magazines in their stock.

[RSillsbee]

33. Not sure how to answer this

I only own two pistols that hold less than ten rounds (RIA1911& CZ2075RAMI) so anything I buy will be over 10 rounds anyway but not because of the "Ban" that seems to have faded away

[Katya Mullethov]

34. And gas cans, and hot rod toilets , and pallets of R12?

The R134 and R22 ships have already sailed as well ....... BUT !

PCB Caulk remediation is the new asbestos .

Check out that bunny suit !

[Atypical Liberal]

41. I did.

I bought 6 30-round magazines and a civilian AK-47 during the last Assault Weapons Ban. I bought them because I figured if I was ever going to own them I better buy them while they were still available.

[ileus]

43. I picked up 10 or 12 AR mags, and 5 handgun mags....can't be too safe.

[Blown330]

45. Don't have to buy any...

My XD40 came with two 12rd mags and I have fourteen 20rd and about ten 30rd AR mags.

[Dr_Scholl]

48. I didn't.

But my dad bought an aftermarket 31 round mag for his Glock 19. It's damn near impossible to get more than 20 rounds in it, though.

[Starboard Tack]

50. Congrats! You found 14. Feel safer now?

[benEzra]

52. I suspect it has more to do with schadenfreude.

The only effect of proposing to outlaw over-10-round magazines is to increase lawful sales of over-10-round magazines, and I suspect the OP was making that point.

FWIW, as one of the "14" above, I bought mine because I just bought a used Smith & Wesson pistol this week, and full-size 9mm's hold more than 10 rounds and have since the 1930's. So unless you purposely buy hobbled magazines for it, you are buying over-10-rounders.

[Starboard Tack]

55. Why do you need a gun with 10 rounds?

Shouldn't 6 be more than enough to defend yourself. If not, you should probably stay home.

[lawodevolution]

57. I do not have to show a need to own a 75 round AK47 magazine

and you will not determine if I need one or if I can have one.

If my ownership of 10+ round magazines scares you, purhaps you should stay home.

[Starboard Tack]

58. Doesn't scare me at all. Why would I be scared?

If I were scared, I would probably have one too. What are you scared of to need an AK47? Do you live in Kandahar? Do you really think you scare me by bragging about your guns? Keep on devolving. Hope it makes you happy.

[lawodevolution]

59. I don't need any reason to own an AK. No fear necessary.

Why are you scared of law abiding citizens owning guns?

I can tell you're having to use coping mechanisms to deal with the feeling of lack of control. I own an ak47 with up to 75 round magazines and you aren't able to control this situation therefore you are reduced to attacking my screen name to cope. I'm sure Kim Jung il would also be in a lot of distress if citizens of n Korea were able to buy and own military style guns.

[Starboard Tack]

63. How am I attacking your sceen name?

You chose it and your posts support it. At least you are honest, a quality not always in abundance among some of your cohorts. I am in no way intimidated by you or your AK47. Should I be? I see no reason.
Fear is peddled by the gun peddlers, not by those who oppose carrying them around. When people are afraid, they don't oppose guns, they buy them and carry them, to counter their fear, which is usually irrational and unfounded. Why else would someone want an AK47, not to mention 75 rounds of ammo?

[oneshooter]

69. Because he wants to catch up to me.

My semi-auto 1919a4 has a 250rd mag. Great fun at the range!

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Starboard Tack]

74. You must feel very proud.

[rl6214]

84. Snarky!

[Starboard Tack]

88. I admit it's hard to resist at times.

[oneshooter]

91. Lots of fun at the range!

As for you I don't give a rats ass if you like it, or not.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[one-eyed fat man]

98. Belt-fed and water-cooled

Here's something to set your Anglophilic heart a-flutter...



This is a Vickers. It was built in 1916 by Vickers, Sons & Maxim. The weapon had a reputation for great solidity and reliability. Ian V. Hogg, in Weapons & War Machines, describes an action that took place in August, 1916, during which the British Army's 100th Company of the Machine Gun Corps fired their ten Vickers guns continuously for twelve hours. They fired a million rounds between them, using 100 new barrels, without a single breakdown. "It was this absolute foolproof reliability which endeared the Vickers to every British soldier who ever fired one."

The gun in the picture was sold out of British Army service in 1968 in Hong Kong to an American Army sergeant on R&R from Viet Nam. It came complete with the "Gunner's Wallet", spare parts box, tripod serial numbered to the gun, 6 spare barrels, belt-filling machine and transport cases. The $200 tax paid to register the gun exceeded the cost of acquisition and shipping to the United States. Not a bad investment for a sergeant's pay.

It works as well today as it did 94 years ago.

Good surplus .303 ammunition is hard to find these days. For some reason the priming compound used by the Commonwealth countries does not hold up as well as those used by the US or Germany. WW2 vintage US or German small arms ammunition invariably still functions like it was made yesterday. Except for Canadian head stamped ammo, it does not seem to matter if the ammunition was loaded by Radway Green in England, POF in Pakistan or any of the other old British colonies after 20 years storage hangfires are common.

Although the bulk of these guns produced between 1912 and 1968 were in .303 British for the British Army the gun was built in several other classic military calibers for other countries. The recent acquisition of an 8mm Mauser feedblock, extractor and barrels has made it possible to take advantage of good prices on surplus Yugoslavian and Turkish ammunition.

[RSillsbee]

60. Because anything worth shooting

is worth shooting twice?

FWIW both of the guns I carry (alternately) only hold 12 rounds so in the unlikely event of a total ban on 10+ magazines I'll load 10+1 and lose 1 round

[Starboard Tack]

66. That's why I like a double barrel shotgun.

[RSillsbee]

72. While carrying a double barrel shotgun is perfectly legal in Colorado

It can be a pain. I'll stick to handguns thanks

[Starboard Tack]

75. Carrying a loaded shotgun to the mall is legal?

[RSillsbee]

80. Sure is , The mall itself may be posted

but you can walk down the street w/ it slung over your back. It's highly likely that you'll get MWAG'd but it is a legal activity.

There was a guy that used to ride his bike around downtown Colorado Springs w/ a Mossberg slung over his back the cops used to stop him to check the chamber (Anti poaching law makes it illegal to have a long gun chambered in a vehicle in Colorado) but they couldn't do jack about him carrying the gun

TYPO

[Starboard Tack]

81. Amazing! I'd be concerned about CC toters thinking I might be a Loughner

[rl6214]

85. Legal in Texas also

Used to see pickups around town with long guns in the rear windows but not any more. Too much fear of having them stolen, what with all the violence across the border in Mexico.

[PavePusher]

87. There's a phrase that applies here...

"Observe and Report".

[Glassunion]

61. What if the firearm comes with more than 10 standard.

I own a few historical pieces. All inherited.

One holds 8 rounds in an en bloc clip.
Another holds 13 rounds in a removable magazine.
Another holds 7 rounds in a removable magazine.
Another holds 15 rounds in a tube magazine.
Another holds 20 rounds in a removable magazine.

I also own a few not so historical pieces.
One holds 17 rounds in a removable magazine.
Another holds 10 in a removable magazine.
Another holds 6 in a removable magazine.
Another holds 30 in a removable magazine.
Another holds 20 in a tubular magazine.

All of these are just standard on what the weapons originally shipped with from the manufacturer. With the exception of one, none of them have an extended capacity. They all serve different functions to me... Hunting, Competition, Target Shooting, Carrying, Display... Hell one is on loan to a nearby VFW until the end of July. Here is the thing... At the end of the day, not any one of these are going to jump up and go out on a killing spree. They will sit quietly in my safe completely indifferent to the world as they are no more deadly with their standard capacity or with an extended capacity.

"Shouldn't 6 be more than enough to defend yourself. If not, you should probably stay home." Does this statement apply to the police?

[Starboard Tack]

67. Nice to know you're responsible

Regarding the police, I don't think they should carry either in normal circumstances. But that's just me and most people in the UK where I think they have the most sensible gun laws.

[rrneck]

62. I have a 1911 with 7+1.

A big bullet makes a big hole. But that's my call to make. And that is at the heart of the issue. You simply don't have the right to decide how many bullets somebody else may need. It just doesn't make any sense.

[Starboard Tack]

68. Of course I don't have that right and don't claim it

Unless the law changes it is your right to make as big and as many holes as you like.

[rrneck]

71. You want to chamge the law

up to and including amending the constitution.

Yes, you claim the right. You just won't take responsibility for it

[Starboard Tack]

76. I do not want to change the law, but I would like to see the people

call on their representatives to amend the constitution to reflect current times and needs. How they do it is up to them. Meanwhile, all I am stating is what I would prefer. I don't demand anything. I'm having conversations about how to improve our world. I know some of my ideas seem extreme to many, but they are only ideas, put forward for discussion. I'm sure none of my suggestions will be implemented. Doesn't make them wrong or right. My right is to speak my mind, no matter how distasteful some may find my words.

[rrneck]

78. Your ideas aren't extreme.

They're unworkable. It seems that you're "just spitballin' " whenever you're asked a direct question about the ramifications of your ideas.

Amending the constitution will impact the laws under which it is intrepreted.

[Starboard Tack]

79. Many times I have referenced the UK example and I see no negative

ramifications there. You and others prefer to pooh-pooh this by implying it couldn't work here for ridiculous reasons such as, it's too late, the Brits are different, they don't enjoy or demand the same freedom and a lot of other drivel. I definitely believe in one's right to defend oneself and I think we have the technology to accomplish that with non lethal weapons of defense.
It's hard to imagine how the number of killed and maimed could increase by following a proven model.
I've spent well 20+ years in the UK and 30+ in the US and another 15+ in various other countries around the world. I think people in this country are just as smart as anywhere else, but not as free. Most folk assume the opposite. Americans are slaves to consumerism, chasing the almighty dollar and instant gratification. All sold by corporate pigs.

[rrneck]

82. Do you know why there are so many guns in this country?

It's not because of some evil mind control manipulation by the NRA. It's not because only rednecks and nuts own guns. It's not because of the way they are portrayed in the media. It's because they work. If any other self defense option worked half as well there would be tons of them out there for you to complain about.

There is no such thing as a benign bullet. Less than lethal response to a lethal threat is impossible.

If this woman:



needs to defend herself against this man:



She needs one of these:



It's just plain physics. There is a disparity of force between assailants and victims and the best solution is a gun. I don't care how many tasers, chemical squirters, martial arts moves, light running shoes, cell phones, whistles, air horns or other less than lethal solutions you trot out none of them will work as well or as reliably under more various circumstances than a gun.

Now, I don't care if you "don't buy it". You're just some guy on the internet. You're probably an OK fella. But you need to understand that everything you have written flies in the face of what anyone who has had to face a disparity of force has experienced. You say you're just making conversation and throwing out ideas. Well, anyone reading what you have written who has been assaulted or has some reason to believe they will be assaulted will interpret your opinion for that of a rich, cloistered, obtuse, arrogant liberal asshole who doesn't care about the lives of real people. If that's your opinion - fine. But it is an opinion that seems to be shared by waaay too many Democrats and it costs us elections.

Working people have been thrown under the bus in this country and the last thing they need is some elitist protected by his property values to tell them how to fight off thugs, muggers, gangbangers, burglars, rapists and home invaders. You have said you are just throwing out ideas but you admit that you would vote for any candidate that would enact them into law. You would compel people to disarm without offering them any protection based on your distaste for a particular type of technology and your personal lifestyle choices. Read what you have written and you will see what I'm talking about. You have contradicted yourself repeatedly on this issue and those contradictions are permanent record. If you really want people to give up guns the best thing for you to do is get your story straight and offer a them a viable solution. So far you have done neither.

[Starboard Tack]

86. There are so many guns in this country because of responses like yours.

Your technique here is typical NRA propaganda. You show a pic of a battered female, a bald guy and a gun and expect me to leap to an illogical conclusion. Yuck!
I come up with suggestions. You knock them down every time leaving only a GUN as the answer. That is bigotry. I contradict myself repeatedly. Yes, because I'm still evolving. Bigots don't evolve. They justify their rigid positions with grandiosity and by discounting possible solutions.
Using the argument that it will cost us elections is so dishonest, as is all political blackmail.

You can feel free to quote me down the road. I may well change my mind again and again. That's my prerogative. Your characterization of me as "a rich, cloistered, obtuse, arrogant liberal asshole who doesn't care about the lives of real people" is less than flattering and couldn't be further from the truth. I haven't lived in a building in 20 years and my worldly possessions would fit in OneShooter's gun safe, but I have no need to justify myself or my behavior to you or anyone. I leave my gun at home and I pose no threat to anyone when I sally forth. If someone wants steal my bicycle, I'll walk till I find another.

[rrneck]

90. Of course you don't have to justify yourself.

But you do have to justify your opinion.

You're evolving because several people keep telling you how wrong you are. That's okay it's nothing personal. Like I said you're probably in okay guy but the opinions that you are offering lead one to believe otherwise on this anonymous internet thingy.

That's how politics and government and society and civilization work. The minute you think you have it all figured out people will linep across the street and explaine to you how your solution just won't work for them. You cant design public policy to suit your circumstances. It has to work for everybody.

Build a better mousetrap in the world will beat a path to your door.

[benEzra]

65. I was about to respond with a serious post

about the 3-way tradeoff between portability, power, and capacity (e.g. .357 vs. .45 ACP vs. 9mm vs. 12-gauge), the lessons learned from the Newhall shooting and NYPD's SOP-9 study, and TV myth vs. reality of incapacitation potential, and the different parameters for guns kept at home vs. CCW's, but I deleted it after realizing that your question was almost entirely rhetorical.

I'll just point out instead that your local police officer carries a 13 to 18 round pistol on her hip with another 24 to 34 rounds in the mag carrier because six rounds are very often not enough for reasonable defensive use.

[Starboard Tack]

70. I think arming the police is a huge part of the problem

Obviously there are times when they need to be armed, but routinely arming them makes no sense to me. It just ups the ante.

[GreenStormCloud]

73. The police don't have quality crystal balls.

They can't tell in advance when they will need to be armed. So to insure that they have the gun when they need it, they carry all the time. Routinely arming them make loads of sense. Real life isn't like The Andy Griffin Show.

[Starboard Tack]

77. You're absolutely right, unfortunately.

I do think, though, with modern technology we should be able to produce effective non-lethal weapons for self defense and law enforcement.

[rrneck]

83. When you get it figured out let us know.

Until then how many people have to die? Try to hurry.

[Starboard Tack]

89. Apparently about 30,000 a year right now

How's that working for you?

[rrneck]

92. Not so good.

Got that solution yet?

[Starboard Tack]

93. Not yet. You?

Status quo isn't working, that's for sure.

[rrneck]

94. All you have to do is think of something better.

Large numbers always make me think of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buqtdpuZxvk

God I hate statistics. Even then though we're talking 30,000 per year in a country of over 300,000,000 people. Now, how many of those people would have been killed with something else? How many of those shootings were between criminals? How many of those shootings were self defense? See how the questions pile up when you just throw around a few numbers? That's why I hate statistics.

[Starboard Tack]

95. Love the video

I hate statistics too because they are so easily skewed, but some are so overwhelming that even if somewhat skewed, the picture is clear. I don't believe we are so different than the UK and the stats are so staggeringly different. I don't like it, but it's the only common sense solution if we truly want a solution. It's hard to knock something that works. Unless, of course, you're French and then you must reinvent the wheel.

[rrneck]

96. If you only count gun deaths against a country that has banned guns

it can sound pretty bad. Look up homicide/aggravated assault rates that would include melee weapons and you'll probably get a different story. And of course different countries report different crimes different ways.

Truth to tell, comparing countries doesn't work very well.

[Starboard Tack]

97. I would agree if the dicrepancy were not so staggering

The whole point is to compare with a country that has banned guns. To see the two extremes. I think people report assaults much more in the UK, because they are much more trusting of the police and even of government in general. Not that they don't complain, but the Brits are not as restrained as Americans in many ways.

[benEzra]

99. The U.S. vs. UK stats were even more lopsided *before* the UK banned guns,

back when UK citizens could own any Title 1 gun that Americans can own now. Their violence rates have been trending up over the past 50 years, and ours have been trending down. And if you make the comparison with Switzerland (where citizens can own any gun U.S. citizens can, and plenty we can't) or the Czech Republic, I think it becomes pretty clear that there other issues in play here.

There's also the fact that UK-style gun prohibition would simply not work in the United States. The UK's laws are extreme even by most European standards, and are a non-starter in a nation in which roughly four in ten households lawfully own guns.

[lawodevolution]

56. you mean 42% on a gun forum full of antis.

I'd bet the gun forum members would have a higher % in the yes column.

[aikoaiko]

64. I admit that I bought 10 30rd mags for a Polish Tantal.

$9.99 at Midway.

[AzNick]

100. Why is TEN high capacity?

I would not consider 10 x 22LR high capacity.

I would not consider 10 x 9mm high capacity.

I would consider 10 x 45ACP high capacity.

The definition of what would be high capacity should be based on the caliber.

I did not buy any 30+ magazine because they are ridiculous and cartoonish.

[lawodevolution]

101. 30 round ar15 magazines are standard but are considered high capacity to the antis

[AzNick]

102. Correct, 30 in an AR-15 is normal capacity

But you can't really conceal an AR-15. If you walk in a grocery store carrying an AR-15 and you look like this:



People are going to run away from you.

In my mind, a 9mm pistol with more than 15 rounds in a magazine is not really anything you want to use for competition, plinking or even defense.

It seems to me you are at a higher-risk of an FTE or FTF, even with a Glock (sarcasm).

But anybody with such a large capacitor magazine for his pistol is, in my mind, up to no good.

FYI I never load more than 5 rounds in a magazine when I shoot, except a 1911, where I usually load 6 to 8, depending on the type of competition.