Loaded gun falls on floor, goes off in kindergartners' lunch room.

[pnwmom]

But I'm sure I read right here on DU that a gun will never go off just because it hits the floor.

:shrug:

Luckily, only 3 kindergartners were wounded, including the one who brought the gun to school in his pocket.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/04/19/texas.school.gun.accident/

(CNN) -- Three kindergartners in a Houston elementary school were wounded Tuesday when a loaded handgun fell out of a student's pocket on the lunchroom floor and discharged, the school district said.
None of the injuries was considered life-threatening, Houston Independent School District spokesman Jason Spencer told CNN.
School district police are investigating how the 6-year-old who brought the gun to school -- one of the wounded children -- obtained the weapon, Spencer said.
The two boys and one girl, all of them kindergarten students at Ross Elementary School, were taken to a hospital and their parents were notified, Spencer said. Two children, a boy and a girl, suffered foot wounds, and the other, a boy, was wounded in the leg.

[TheCowsCameHome]

1. Whos' gonna be the first to unrec this?

[Logical]

11. I am a gun owner, Conceal Carry supporter and I recced this and agree...

the parent should be charged and arrested.

No excuse for this to happen.

[Euromutt]

41. I don't know if I'm first, but yes, I unrecced this

Not because it contradicts the Gospel of Saints Wayne and Chris of Fairfax, or the Book of Armaments, but because of the first sentence: "But I'm sure I read right here on DU that a gun will never go off just because it hits the floor."

No matter how hard pnwmom may have convinced herself that she's read that here, she hasn't. It's been asserted--correctly--that the overwhelming majority of handguns manufactured in the past 30-odd years are "drop safe" but that generally comes with the caveat that there are certain guns to which this does not apply (e.g. cheap "Ring of Fire" crap like Ravens, Lorcins, Jennings etc.) and that it doesn't necessarily apply to long guns either. I myself have pointed out on more than one occasion that most shotguns do not have firing pin stop safeties, and may discharge if jarred with a round in the chamber, as can many SMGs that fire from an open bolt with a fixed firing pin (for example, it happened more than once that a soldier jumping out of the truck with a cocked Sten gun might unintentionally slam the butt on the floor, jarring the gun's bolt loose, resulting in an unintentionally discharged burst of automatic fire being loosed into the men behind him).

You also have to take into account what makes a story "newsworthy." "Dog bites man" isn't news because it happens literally a million times a year; "man bites dog" is news, precisely because it's an extremely rare occurrence. Similarly, "Guns dropped on hard surface, does not discharge" isn't news precisely because it's not unexpected.

[RSillsbee]

50. I unrecced the Hell out of it NT

[rfranklin]

2. If only he had attended a training class...

He would have known proper gun handling procedures.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Logical]

8. Most gun owners would 100% agree with you. n-t

[petronius]

43. Agree with the first part, not the second

It seems to be a strong likelihood that negligence was involved, which should have consequences...

[reggie the dog]

17. I started shooting pistols at age 5, under direct supervision of my

father, my grandfather and my uncles. They never let me carry a loaded gun around unsupervised until i was 13 and we were out in the wilderness of montana, the day my dad let me walk off into the woods with a 38 in case a pack of wolves came up on us i knew he trusted me with a gun in a rural setting, he had trained me about shooting in the woods and to shoot against a hillside so you know where the bullets stop and to clean up targets to leave the forest clean afterwards. he never ever let me take one of his guns to school.

[Very_Boring_Name]

4. Another gun owner shoots school children... sad news. n/t

[Wilms]

5. Was that three kids wounded by one discharge?

Kind of gives credence to the single bullet theory. Gonna have to think about that.

And it sounds like the kids are safe, which is great! And that proves that it's safer to have a gun around...just in case.

[reggie the dog]

15. easy, he dropped it in the LUNCH ROOM and kids got shot under the table

i dont know why in the hell the kid couldnt just keep his gun in his pocket, he probably wanted to show it off to his friends. is it legal for kids to bring their guns to kindergarden in texas? i would put my kid into a school that did not allow that kind of shit even if i had to leave the state. I was allowed to shoot at age 6, whith my father directly supervising, but he didnt trust me to carry a weapon unsupervized until i was a teenager and we were out in the mountains somewhere. 6 is, in my opinion, a good 6 or 7 years too young to be carrying around a gun unsupervized, and even then i dont think that parents should let their kids take guns to school. as a teacher it would freak me out to think that my students, who may be pissed off about a bad grade or too much homework, would be packing heat from age 6 up.

[YllwFvr]

58. it would be illegal for a child to carry a gun

regardless of state.
I imagine it was illegal for you to carry the 38 your father loaned you. Long gun may very well be different. Ill have to look into it before I say for certain. Firearms k-12 is a federal law. Not even texas allows that

[reggie the dog]

79. technically you have to be 14 to carry a gun in public without parents

in montana, but i could have passed for 14

[YllwFvr]

80. for handgun

or rifle?

[reggie the dog]

81. firearms in general

[pnwmom]

24. "That proves that it's safer to have a gun around"

Please tell me you're kidding.

[Wilms]

31. I know it gets borderline 'round here sometimes.

I admit having failed to signal the lane change...that is, use a sarcasm tag. :blush:

[pnwmom]

35. Yes, indeedy.

:hi:

[TheWraith]

6. A modern gun won't go off when dropped. Not all guns are modern.

And some antique knock-offs also are not drop-safe.

[mistertrickster]

38. C'mon . . . you think a six year old carried an old Colt cowboy gun to school?

That doesn't even make good nonsense.

The thing would be worth a grand . . .

[TheWraith]

49. Not everything is an expensive antique. There's huge numbers of cheap Derringer knock-offs.

As far as I'm aware, pretty much zero of them are drop safe. For that matter, most old revolvers--old as in 20 or 30 years, not 100--are not drop-safe either.

[mistertrickster]

55. You have a point . . . hadn't thought of that. nt

[valerief]

7. Isn't it a state law in Texas that five-year-olds have to be armed? nt

[Turbineguy]

9. Anyway

he was almost 6.

[cleanhippie]

13. Yes, it is.

[robinlynne]

10. but I thought guns don't kill people?

[cleanhippie]

14. Who was killed?

[pnwmom]

26. Right. No one could possibly have been killed because

all dropped guns that discharge only hit small children in the feet or legs.

:sarcasm:

[cleanhippie]

60. Exactly

[Logical]

30. Neither do cars, pools, poisons, plastic bags, which kill more kids a year than guns. n-t

[Wilms]

33. You have a point.

A kindergartner bringing an automobile to school would bring new meaning to the term "drive-by". And that's even if the kid left the pistol at home.

[Logical]

42. Want to bet more kids die a year walking to school and hit by cars than are shot? Should....

we ban kids walking to school. Give it a rest. h

[rl6214]

45. Wrong post

[Wilms]

66. Hardly.

But you better believe I'm going to complain about a culture that sponsors this. And I ain't anti-gun. I'm anti-gun-nuts.

Let's see how many laws were broken on the path leading to this.

[YllwFvr]

59. "Boy, 6, drives to school after missing bus"

speaking of....

http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20090107/NEWS02/701079824

WICOMICO CHURCH, Va. -- A 6-year-old Virginia boy who missed his bus tried to drive to school in his family's sedan -- and crashed.

His parents were charged with child endangerment.

State police said the boy suffered only minor injuries and authorities drove him to school after he was evaluated at a local hospital for a bump on his head. He arrived shortly after lunch, Sgt. Tom Cunningham said.

It happened around 7:40 a.m. Monday on Route 360, about 61 miles east of Richmond.

The boy, whose name wasn't released, missed the bus, took the keys to his family's 2005 Ford Taurus and drove nearly six miles toward school while his mother was asleep, police said.

He made at least two 90-degree turns, passed several cars and ran off the rural two-lane road several times before hitting an embankment and utility pole about a mile and a half from school.

The boy told police he learned to drive playing "Grand Theft Auto" and "Monster Truck Jam" video games.

"He was very intent on getting to school," said Northumberland County Sheriff Chuck Wilkins. "When he got out of the car, he started walking to school. He did not want to miss breakfast and PE."

His parents, Jacqulyn Deana Waltman, 26, and David Eugene Dodson, 40, are each charged with child endangerment, Wilkins said. Waltman is being held without bond. Dodson was released on a $5,000 bond.

It was not clear if they had attorneys.

The boy and his 4-year-old brother were placed in protective custody.

"This really is a story of miracles," Wilkins said. "The Lord was with him, along with everybody else on the highway."


Ive got family in that town, been there a few times.

[greenman3610]

12. that's exactly why we need more guns in schools.

If the other kindergartners had been armed, they could have dealt with this little
bastard immediately.

[cleanhippie]

16. Yeah, exactly.

[slackmaster]

25. I really don't understand why people always post stupid shit like this when something bad happens

:argh:

[Union Scribe]

67. They seem to think they're either profound or clever.

And they don't ever check to see how many other utter failures of wit have already posted the same thing.

I think of it this way: if they suppose everyone is as dim-witted as they are, no wonder they don't trust any of the rest of us with guns or objects sharper than safety scissors.

[Renew Deal]

18. Should this kid ever see the outside of a jail cell?

There are no gun "accidents"

Why not a "reckless endangerment" charge?

If he has a concealed carry permit criminal charges don't have a chance of holding up. However, his permit should be revoked.

It's called CRIMINAL negligence for a reason.

No, it is criminal negligance.

If it is only negligence, then no criminal charges apply

Criminal charges NO - Civil liability HELL YES

I still think there is criminal negligence here.

I think criminal negligence related charges are warranted

Puzzling: why a loaded gun w/safety off in his pocket in an upscale Kingwood area on Lake Houston at night? I've lived in Houston area over 27-years, never carried a gun and don't know anyone who has carried one in their pocket.

This is a case of criminal negligence, and should be treated as such,

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x427407

Those are the stock arguments from a similar incident a few months ago. No one else needs to reply.

[walldude]

19. Woo Hoo Go Texas!

Fuck, I don't know how you Texans deal with it. You guys are giving Florida a run for it's money in the looney sweepstakes.

If my kid got hurt in this mess I'd be demanding jail time for the responsible gun owner who let his 6 year old find a LOADED FUCKING GUN and bring it to school.

[Kceres]

23. Don't you mean "irresponsible" gun owner?

Bet the parents get a slap on the wrist. I want to know what happens.

[Phoonzang]

27. Did you know that Houston is a blue city and has a lesbian mayor?

Well...it does.

[calimary]

20. Oh for Lord's sake...

Fucking God Damn guns!!!!!!!

:puke: :grr: :mad: :thumbsdown:

[bigmonkey]

21. And it's been shown in many studies that gun-carrying kindergarteners commit less crime.

So there.

[pnwmom]

28. Especially the ones who write cursive well enough

to sign their concealed carry permits.

[medeak]

22. had to be old gun

good grief..what is wrong with parents!

[Odin2005]

29. Looks like some idiot parents need to be charged with reckless endangerment.

[AnneD]

32. I am literally ....

a stones throw away from the school. Pass by it every day going home.

This is a rough assed neighborhood. Boys and girls can you spell G-h-e-t-t-o.

This is a good school and this was a baby. Everyone here is upset that a baby got his hands on a gun. I am in a middle school and we have fights but so far it has involved fists. When I first came, teachers would complain about the kids fighting. I told them I was happy because-no one pulled a gun or knife, no one pounded some ones head with a chair or into a wall. I pray every night that this never happens.

However...

HISD is cutting teachers and support staff. I am a school nurse and I have been laid off. Classes will be larger and I suspect that some children will die at school next year due to lack of timely medical care. I see many kids with complicated medical issues and for some the school nurse is their only source of health care.

It will be rough next year.

[pnwmom]

36. Sorry to hear about your layoff -- you're right, those kids will suffer.

What a shame.

[The Straight Story]

34. Hmmm is it already against the law for kids to take guns to school? Do we need more laws now?

Or should we stop with the feel good stuff and work on enforcing laws we already have?

[rl6214]

40. This is it right here

[Tuesday Afternoon]

46. +1

[mistertrickster]

37. Thank God, our gov't has no right to test guns for safety, like say every other product sold. nt

[slackmaster]

39. Governments have no rights whatsoever. Only people have rights.

Governments have powers that are granted to them by the will of the people.

[mistertrickster]

54. Checked your profile--you have a C&R . . . so do I.

I collect mainly old military weapons.

You?

[slackmaster]

71. Mostly bolt-action rifles from World War II and earlier

I have enough Mausers and Mosin-Nagants to arm every household on my block.

[mistertrickster]

74. Hehehe . . . will pm you about that. I wanna Mauser too. Already got a 91/33 and an M44.

On edit--

Maybe we should start a C&R forum here.

I've mainly been buying from Southern Ohio Gun and Century Arms.

Also, picked up a few items at gun shows but haven't been that happy (with gun show stuff) once I look them over in the light of day.

[RamboLiberal]

47. Want to explain how California gets away with testing?

Effective January 1, 2001, no handgun may be manufactured within California, imported into California for sale, lent, given, kept for sale, or offered/exposed for sale unless that handgun model has passed firing, safety, and drop tests and is certified for sale in California by the Department of Justice. Private party transfers, curio/relic handguns, certain single-action revolvers, and pawn/consignment returns are exempt from this requirement.

http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/

Or Massachusetts for that matter?

http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/chsb/firearms/approved_firearms_roster_04-2011.pdf

[mistertrickster]

57. Well, good. Maybe now manufacturers will have to prove that their weapons

don't explode or discharge when dropped.

I have no problem with that.

[slackmaster]

73. Amendment X to the Constitution of the United States

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

[cleanhippie]

61. Do you have any idea what you are talking about?

I'm inclined to think not.

[mistertrickster]

75. Feel free to enlighten me. That's what I come here for. nt

[GreenStormCloud]

44. MODERN designs of guns don't go off when dropped.

Not all designs are modern. Some older designs will go off when dropped. It is up to the gun owner to know which is which. GLOCKs will not go off if dropped, nor will SIG-Sauer, Ruger, S&W, or other quality manufacturers. The news article does not say what kind of gun it was.

The US has a population of 310 million. Of that many people some will be irresponsible and allow their children to get the guns unsupervised. That is no reason to take my guns away from me.

[right2bfree]

48. We need to get the guns out of unqualified parents and others like this! nt

[jeepnstein]

51. Good thing I'm qualified.

[RSillsbee]

53. I agree IF you address specific behaviors

As opposed to entire classes of people. IOW Barring some unbelievable extenuating circumstance this kids parents should lose their RKBA but all parents of 6 YOs should not TYPO

[cleanhippie]

62. How?

[SheilaT]

52. Ahh, once again the logical outcome

of guns being so readily available.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PavePusher]

64. No, it's the logical outcome of irresponsible/negligent parenting.

And it applies to any object/substance that is dangerous when not properly handled or operated.

This is by no means unique to firearms.

[mistertrickster]

56. Idiot reporters just keep calling it a "gun." What kind of gun?

Not only that, they report it was a "loaded gun."

Thanks for that piece of brilliant insight . . . it'd be kinda hard for an unloaded gun to accidentally discharge and wound the kids . . .

[RamboLiberal]

65. I'm guessing an older small cheap(read unsafe) pistol or derringer

Read it fell out of kid's pocket which I would think would be small.

[mistertrickster]

76. Right . . . Jennings / Bryco suicide special . . . nt

[ileus]

68. No modern handgun should discharge by hitting the floor...recall not completed?

[Remmah2]

69. How come this topic was posted under at least 4 separate threads?

Is anyone motivated to read or are we in such a hurry to grandstand?

[RamboLiberal]

77. Well to be fair I think mods kicked one out of GD to here

Hey, I'm used to seeing a half dozen threads or more in GD on a popular story.

[slackmaster]

70. Auto-Unrec for multiple duplicate topic

:nuke:

[struggle4progress]

72. This involves a class C misdemeanor under section 46.13 of the Texas Penal Code

Maximum penalty for a class C misdemeanor is a $500 fine. It would have risen to a class A misdemeanor if someone had been killed or seriously injured. Class A misdemeanor carries fine of at most $4000 and/or incarceration of at most one year.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/docs/PE/htm/PE.46.htm
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/docs/PE/htm/PE.12.htm

[Atypical Liberal]

78. Unrecommended for no policy commentary.