Cost of Gun registry cost soars to $2 billion

[jimsteuben]

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/02/13/gunregistry_rdi040213

Gun registry cost soars to $2 billion
Last Updated Fri, 13 Feb 2004

MONTREAL - Canada's controversial gun registry is costing taxpayers far more than previously reported, CBC News has learned. Nearly $2 billion has either been spent on or committed to the federal program since it was introduced in the mid-1990s, according to documents obtained by Zone Libre of CBC's French news service.

The figure is roughly twice as much as an official government estimate that caused an uproar across the country.

The gun registry was originally supposed to cost less than $2 million.
<...>

[Baclava]

1. Ya...

That's a lot of hockey pucks...eh?

[slackmaster]

3. Or kidney dialysis sessions, or swimming lessons, or

Worn out smog-producing cars and trucks taken off the roads, or meals for seniors, or treatment for alcoholics and addicts, or new school books, or medicine for AIDS patients, or dental visits or eyeglasses for the poor, or they could have burned piles of $1 bills to heat government offices.

But if it saves just one life...

:eyes:

As a professional computer systems integrator who has worked on numerous million dollar projects over the last 20 years I find this figure particularly amusing:

A large part of the $2 billion expense is a computer system that's supposed to track registered guns, according to one document. Officials initially estimated it would cost about $1 million. Expenses now hover close to $750 million and the electronic system is still not fully operational.

Jeez, I could hire a couple of programmers and a small team of Web integrators and have the job done by now for $250 million, $300 million tops! How complex could a gun registry database and the required inputs and outputs and security really be?

:hippie:

OTOH it's Canada's problem, not mine. If they're happy with the clowns they've elected to run the country, more power to them.

[RoeBear]

2. Has the gun registry had...

...any effect (up or down) on Canada's crime rate?

[-..__...]

4. I imagine the crime rate has gone up... way up!

All those previously law abiding Canucks that didn't register their firearms are now considered criminals.

[moroni]

13. I'd say it has gone up......

Someone has stolen 2 billion dollars!:grr:

[alwynsw]

5. B-b-b-b-b-but. The program is working so well!

<snip>
Soon after the registration deadline passed, several gun owners challenge law enforcement authorities to arrest them for possessing unregistered firearms. Canadian Unregistered Firearms Owners Association leader Jim Turnbull and another man are arrested for having firearms at a rally in Ottawa. Anti-registry protesters note the fact that Turnbull isn't charged under the Firearms Act for his unregistered gun iss both a moral victory and proof the new law is ineffective.

Regardless, Justice Minister Martin Cauchon reiterates that Ottawa has no plans to stop the registry and urged the thousands who are still unregistered to comply with the law.

It appears that we have a boondoggle that is benefiting no one but the contractors and the pols pushing their gun grabbing agenda. Why have a law that won't be enforced if the purpose of said law is to remove unregistered guns and their owners from the streets?

<snip>
Canada's Firearms Act is being implemented in two phases. The first phase, already complete, was aimed at registering and licensing all firearm owners by January 1, 2001. As of November 23, 2002, a total of 1,897,161 of Canada's estimated three million gun owners were licensed.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/guncontrol/

If I read the rest of the story correctly, the cost has doubled from the original one billion dollars yet the initial registration is estimated at 75% complete. (Bear in mind that they are spending Canadian dollars which don't go as far as greenbacks - the current exchange rate is 0.76/1.00.) There has been an offset of $140,000,000.00 in fees, which still leaves the Treasury $1,860,000,000. in the red on this outing.

I'm still wondering how they figure the program is 75% complete when (by their figures) only 5.2 million of and estimated 8 million firearms are registered as of the date of the last report. My calculator says that 5.2 million is only 72.5% of 8 million.

Let's not forget all the additional expenditures when all of those unregistered owners are arrested and convicted. Each one - according to the law as stated in the article - will be a guest of the Canadian government, at said government's (taxpayer) expense at the Graybar Hotel North for a minimum of 5 years.

Bearing in mind that released felons do not have the earning power of those never convicted of a crime, we're looking at a conservative estimate of a couple hundred thousand Canadians who will contribute less to the infrastructure through taxes after their release from the pokey.

Of course, I'm wondering how Phase One is complete (read the second snip) when the authorities in charge of the program state that only 75% (previously debunked as an inflated estimate) of the estimated firearms owners are registered.

edited to repair html

[MrSandman]

6. Why should the General Population bear this expense?

If it cannot be recouped in registration/licensing fees, then the only efficient answer is to do away with registration and ban the guns, unless one wants to admit the program is too unwieldy.

[alwynsw]

7. How often do you hear activists and pols backpeddle?

I agree with you completely except for the banning part.

I wonder how the average Joe would deal with a 10,000% plus cost overrun on a 75% completed house.

edited to correct math error

[MrSandman]

8. Clarify...

If the AWB was ineffective...expand it(per prohibitionists)

so if registration fails, what will be called for?

I was not advocating banning, but predicting what would be result of failure of registration.

[Superfly]

9. Carify this:

"If the AWB was ineffective...expand it"

So, if a piece of legislation does not work, make it bigger?

How can you build a solid program on one that has been demonstrated to be a failure?

[MrSandman]

11. Ask Rep. McCarthy and her cosponsors...

Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York (for herself, Mr. SHAYS, Mr. CONYERS, Mr. SMITH of New Jersey, Mr. NADLER, Ms. LOFGREN, Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas, Ms. WATERS, Mr. MEEHAN, Mr. DELAHUNT, Mr. WEXLER, Mr. WEINER, Ms. LINDA T. SANCHEZ of California, Mr. EMANUEL, Mr. CASE, Mrs. MALONEY, Ms. CORRINE BROWN of Florida, Mr. KENNEDY of Rhode Island, Mr. RANGEL, Ms. WOOLSEY, Mr. ACKERMAN, Ms. SCHAKOWSKY, Mr. HONDA, Mr. STARK, Ms. SOLIS, Ms. LEE, Mr. VAN HOLLEN, Mr. WAXMAN, Mr. TOWNS, Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD, Mr. GRIJALVA, Ms. CARSON of Indiana, Ms. NORTON, Mr. LIPINSKI, Mr. RUSH, Ms. WATSON, Mr. DAVIS of Illinois, Mr. LEWIS of Georgia, Mr. JACKSON of Illinois, Mr. GUTIERREZ, Mr. OWENS, Mr. BLUMENAUER, Mr. CUMMINGS, Ms. EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON of Texas, Mr. FARR, Ms. LORETTA SANCHEZ of California, Mr. MORAN of Virginia, Mr. MARKEY, Mr. ANDREWS, Mr. HOLT, Mr. PAYNE, Mr. MCGOVERN, Mr. PASCRELL, Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts, Mrs. TAUSCHER, Ms. DELAURO, Mr. ENGEL, Mr. CAPUANO, Mr. HOEFFEL, Mrs. LOWEY, Mr. MENENDEZ, Ms. VELAZQUEZ, Mr. TIERNEY, Mr. BRADY of Pennsylvania, Mr. ROTHMAN, Mr. FATTAH, Ms. HARMAN, Mr. BISHOP of New York, and Mr. LANGEVIN) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary

<>


`(H) A semiautomatic shotgun that has--

`(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

`(ii) a pistol grip;

`(iii) the ability to accept a detachable magazine; or

`(iv) a fixed magazine capacity of more than 5 rounds.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query

Would my 20 gauge Beretta be covered...it is not a straight stock.
Who gets to define "pistol grip?"

I agree that the AWB should be allowed to sunset, no additional laws should be enacted without showing that current laws are effective.

NFA was expanded by GCA was expanded by FOPA was extended by AWB.
A simplistic analysis, admittedly, but a pattern is apparent.


on edit: I agree w/ ya

[alwynsw]

10. What would be called for lies in the opinion of the registration

proponents. In this case, you are correct - likely an outright ban, which I predict would also be an abject failure.

Were common sense to prevail, a return to the free and unfettered firearms ownership would occur. Along with this, appropriate prosecution of and sentencing of criminals who choose to use weapons in their illegal pursuits.

[skippythwndrdog]

12. Send the guns to me.

I'll take them out of circulation for free. Can I wait until after I graduate so I can afford a house to put them in? Make that a house and a really big storage room.

[skippythwndrdog]

14. Let's see

If Canada has an estimated 8 million guns and it has cost 2 billion to get 75% done, then it will cost about 2.6 billion to get it all done.

The US has an estimated280 million guns. Using the Canada model, and allowing for the difference in currency value, we could do the whole thing in the US for just under 80 billion dollars. What a bargain!

[slackmaster]

15. Like the old saying goes

"If it saves just one life..."(TM)

:freak:

[MrSandman]

16. But if that saves one life,

What if we put the money in early intervention?

[slackmaster]

17. I won't presume to speak for the people of Canada

If they want to spend their money inefficiently that's just fine with me. Unless their policy has some international implications it's none of my business.

;-)

[MrSandman]

18. What about all the monet spent...

on ballistic fingerprinting in MD an NY. How many crimes were prevented, or even solved?

[jhfenton]

19. It sounds as if a number of Canadians agree with this guy:

http://www.frontiernet.net/~lendringser/declaration.htm

Excerpts:

"I will not register my guns. If such a law is ever enacted on the federal, State or municipal level, I will choose to ignore it."

"I will not surrender my guns voluntarily, ever. If the possession of handguns is declared illegal by any legislative body, I will chose to ignore it."

"As an individual, I will choose to disobey whenever you enact a law inconsistent with my basic right to self-defense."

"We have no intention to commit crimes of violence with our guns, and we are deeply offended by the notion that you alone can make the decision who can be trusted with a gun, and that we serfs just cannot act in a responsible fashion when given access to guns."

"No registration, no confiscation. Ever. If I should ever break your laws and get caught, you can arrest me. I'd rather live in jail with the knowledge that my spirit is free, than on the outside as a tax-paying serf knowing that I only serve as a worker bee with no rights and little personal freedom. I know that I am not alone, and let's see just how many jails you can build to accomodate all those who have had enough of your failed and unjust policies."

This is the inevitable result of Prohibition, whether it's alcohol, drugs, or guns.

[Wickerman]

20. Great Site

:eyes:

from the front page:

"Nine tenths of homicides in this country are committed without guns, and sanctioned yuppie sports like snowboarding cost many more fatalities every year than the misuse of handguns." http://www.frontiernet.net/~lendringser/guns.htm

Perhaps he was comparing the daily count per year vs. the year count...

"Whilst they usually receive media attention, deaths due to participating in a snow sport are thankfully very rare indeed. The very latest data from the NSAA in Amerca were released in August 2003 - 37 skiers and snowboarders died accidentally on U.S. slopes in 2002/03 compared to 45 deaths the season before. With 57.6 million visits in 2002/2003, the death rate translates to 0.64 deaths per million visits (or one death every 1.6 million skier visits - really exceptionally low). Of the fatalities, 31 were male and six female. Thirty-one were skiers and six were snowboarders."

http://www.ski-injury.com/intro.htm#Fatalities

[MrSandman]

22. Probably added several together...

"Nine tenths of homicides in this country are committed without guns, and sanctioned yuppie sports like snowboarding cost many more fatalities every year than the misuse of handguns."

No one has the corner on misleading numbers.

[jhfenton]

24. That is an odd comparison.

I'd write to him and ask him what he comparing. I understand the water bucket comparison, but I don't know what he's comparing with "yuppie sports" and "misuse of handguns." It's a fair question.

[alwynsw]

21. Small world.

Did you notice that some of the photo credits go to Oleg Volk, formerly of the USSR - yes USSR, now living in Tennessee?

Guess who does most of the photos and graphics for a lately, much duscussed on this board group?

Someday I promise to learn to type - or keyboard as it is now called.

[jhfenton]

23. Many use Oleg's photos because

they are some of the best and he shares them freely within the RKBA community. You can find many of them at link http://www.a-human-right.com/ .

[alwynsw]

25. It's true.

nice to see a guy giving away the things nearly all would pay him for inorder to support a worthy cause