Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Chicago police worry about new concealed carry bill ...

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Guns Donate to DU
 
spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 12:07 PM
Original message
Chicago police worry about new concealed carry bill ...

Chicago police concerned about conceal-carry bill
By Associated Press
Wednesday, April 20, 2011


CHICAGO — Chicago police joined gun control groups Wednesday to voice concerns about flaws in Illinois’ mental health screening system for would-be gun owners, problems that could be amplified with passage of a bill to allow permits for carrying concealed firearms.

A 2009 Illinois State Police report cited "significant information gaps" in the state’s ability to detect and screen out people with serious mental illnesses who might go on a shooting rampage. A state police official testified last week that those gaps still exist.

Illinois falls short in its reporting of psychiatric hospital admissions to the FBI as required by a federal law passed after the 2007 Virginia Tech mass shootings, according to the ISP report. Gaps also exist in reporting by health professionals and nursing homes of dangerous mentally ill people who should be disqualified from gun ownership under Illinois law.emphasis added

***snip***

The proposed legislation would allow Illinois residents 21 and older to apply for permits to carry concealed handguns after receiving eight hours of training. County sheriffs would issue the permits. People with criminal convictions or records of mental illness would be disqualified.
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/national/midwest/view/20110420chicago_police_concerned_about_conceal-carry_bill/srvc=home&position=recent


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
GreenStormCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. Not having a CCW permit didn't stop previous rampage shooters.
What makes them think that it would be a factor here?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. It sounds like a new argument against concealed carry ...
Perhaps those who oppose concealed carry have finally realized that their claims that there will be shootouts at every intersection, showdowns at high noon in every neighborhood and a return to the Wild West has been proven false and makes them look rather like Chicken Littles.

Obviously, you don't need a concealed carry license to illegally take a firearm and go on a shooting spree in a "no-guns" area.

It was mentioned in the article that Illinois is behind on imputing the names of those adjudged to have serious mental issues to the NICS background check system. This would allow a person with a serious mental problem to be able to purchase a firearm or firearms in Illinois from a gun store.

The fact that Illinois has not complied with the federal law passed after the 2007 Virginia Tech mass shootings is a serious problem rather the concealed carry bill passes or not. The simple solution would be to rectify this problem not to use it as a lame excuse to stop honest and sane citizens from being able to carry concealed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. Everyone in Illinois should be worried.
But police most of all.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DonP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. That's why the IL. Sheriffs Assn, the Chicago Police Lts. assn have all endorsed it I guess
Want to share some stories of how police in the other 48 states that allow it were gunned down by CCW permit holders, as opposed to the asshole criminals that don't care about FOID cards, CCW permits or anything else?

Stop wringing your hands long enough to share some facts on how many Texas police have been killed by CCW permit holders this year?

You know how many citizens were killed this year in Illinois by criminals and had no opportunity to defend themselves?

Every single one.

The Chicago police, in a city with a 20 year complete gun ban, can't seem to stop gang members from shooting students right outside their schools when they know it's planned. You'll excuse me if I don't look to them as the "experts" on stopping gun violence.

So if tis such a "bad idea" spend your time and money repealing it in Texas. I'm sure you'll have great success with that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Seattle too, right, since we've had CC and no training requirement at all for 30 years.
hurrr
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. We have had concealed carry in Florida since 1987 ...
and every street cop that I have talked to supports it.

This wasn't true at first, but after years of experience with those who legally carry, police have changed their views. No police officer that I have talked to has ever mentioned one incident in which he had a problem where a person with a concealed weapons permit had misused his weapon.

I know a good number of police and for over a year, a local officer and his wife roomed with us in this big old home that used to be a hotel. Frequently both the town cops and the sheriffs department officers would stop by our home and talk on the porch.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Township75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. Yup, you were so worried that you moved to TX to live with sane gun laws, right?
?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
18. Just like the other 40 states with CC? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YllwFvr Donating Member (757 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
20. I dont know any officers that dont support ccw
And I know a lot
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
21. Yeah, I'm sure they'll put "shot by CCW holder" way above "shot by gang member"
"run over during traffic stop", and "stabbed during a domestic disturbance call".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GreenStormCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #2
22. Why? CHLs have worked out well in Texas. N/T
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. You first.
I already had mine for adoption process.

Hey, I'll go you one step better:

Everyone expecting a child should undergo a psychiatric evaluation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. Unfortunately, your idea would be used to limit concealed carry ...
Edited on Fri Apr-22-11 01:38 PM by spin
to those who could afford the expense of a psychiatric evaluation as I'm sure that the psychiatrist's fee would be addled to the expense of the license.

There are currently 801,219 people with concealed weapons permits in Florida. Last year, 84,530 people applied for a new license and 60,800 renewed their license. How many psychiatrists would we need to give somewhere around 145,000 people an evaluation every year? How many people who had concealed carry licenses without an evaluation have ran amok and went on a shooting spree?

Perhaps we should give every person in the United States a psychiatric evaluation as you don't need a concealed weapons permit to go on a shooting spree and you can buy firearms on the street or from a private owner and bypass the NICS background check.

edited for typo
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rrneck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Bigoted bullshit.
Why is a compulsory psychiatric evaluation to buy a gun legal, moral, effective or even advisable. And don't dredge some vague references to "civilized society" either. (You got that explanation yet?) Produce proof. Here, I've done some research for you. Run with it.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probable_cause
The best-known definition of probable cause is "a reasonable belief that a person has committed a crime".<2> Another common definition is "a reasonable amount of suspicion, supported by circumstances sufficiently strong to justify a prudent and cautious person's belief that certain facts are probably true".<3> Notable in this definition is a lack of requirement for public position or public authority of the individual making the recognition, allowing for use of the term by citizens and/or the general public.

http://www.guideline.gov/content.aspx?id=9317
Risk Assesment
An additional component of the formulation involves an assessment of the patient's risk of harm to self or others. This may include consideration of suicide or homicide risk as well as other forms of self-injury (e.g., cutting behaviors, accidents), aggressive behaviors, neglect of self-care, or neglect of the care of dependents. The risk assessment is intended to identify specific factors that may increase or decrease a patient's degree of risk, thereby suggesting specific interventions that may modify particular risk factors or address the safety of the patient or others. Specific risk factors may include demographic parameters (e.g., age, gender), past behavior (e.g., suicide attempts, self-injury, aggression), psychiatric diagnoses, psychiatric symptoms (e.g., anxiety, hopelessness), co-occurring general medical conditions, sociocultural factors, psychosocial stressors, or individual strengths and vulnerabilities. For patients with suicidal behaviors, this risk assessment process is described in detail in APA's Practice Guideline for the Assessment and Treatment of Patients With Suicidal Behaviors. Although standardized rating scales of suicidal or aggressive behaviors are often used in research and may suggest helpful lines of clinical inquiry, their utility in clinical risk assessment is limited by their low predictive value.


Decisions Regarding Treatment-Related Legal and Administrative Issues
Although the consideration of forensic evaluations is outside the scope of this practice guideline, there are times when the general psychiatric evaluation may need to address legal or administrative concerns (see "Special Considerations" in the original guideline document). Examples include deciding between voluntary and involuntary admission, determining whether legally mandated treatment should be pursued in objecting patients, determining whether there is a duty to protect (e.g., by modifying the patient's treatment, increasing outpatient visit frequency, initiating hospitalization, warning the victim) if the patient is deemed a potential risk to others, and deciding on the level of observation needed to address the patient's safety. In situations such as these, the psychiatrist's decision making will depend on the risk assessment (see "Risk Assessment" above) as well as other relevant aspects of the history, examination, symptoms, diagnosis, and clinical formulation. Assessment of the patient's decision-making capacity may also be needed as part of the informed consent process. When a patient's capacity to consent to treatment is uncertain, questioning to determine mental status should be extended to include items that test the patient's decision-making capacity. As with other aspects of the evaluation, it is important to document the rationales for making a particular treatment decision, including a discussion of supporting evidence from the evaluation findings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.<1>

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bold Lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. I'm sorry I missed on that post. You all may want to take a look at this link
http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2011/apr/22/guns-and-blowhards-ar-971600/

This person is proposing exactly the same thing. I wonder if there is a connection.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rrneck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Don't think so.
I believe the poster to whom I was responding is in Florida. But there are no doubt boat docks in North Carolina as well. Maybe he sailed up there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
10. Help is on the way for the CPD
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
11. I'm all for CCWs and have one myself.
I'd see nothing wrong with the same requirements for a CCW go for any purchase of a handgun. If it is good to have extra background information to carry a handgun, why not the same for any purchase of the same? Lets make sure that only law abiding, sane people have handguns in the first place.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
13. Let's hope gubnor doesn't flipflop on his vow to veto the bill should it pass.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. I imagine he will veto it ...
but there is next year and the year after. Eventually concealed carry in Illinois WILL pass. Honest citizens will finally have the same ability to carry that the criminal element has enjoyed for years because the bad guys don't obey laws.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DonP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Quinn has already been sold out by Speaker of the House Madigan
Speaker Madigan has already hung the 67% income tax increase on Quinn, instead of on his house people.

In the next election Quinn will be primaried out of office by Madigan's daughter, Lisa the Attorney General.

She is fairly lackluster as things go, except for her recent decision to release all the FOID card holders names, which I think was probably "Daddy's" idea anyway. Quinn has been set up and he's too dim to realize it or too egotistical to accept it.

But this is the kind of nepotism that has pissed off voters and almost lost the Illinois House last November. The lame duck session passed the tax increase. If they keep this stupidity up we will have a GOP run House and Senate for the first time in decades next election and CCW will get passed anyway, just like in texas with Ann Richards.

As it is,they have close to enough votes to override a Quinn veto anyway. There are too many Dems downstate that are hanging on to their seats by their fingernails and expect a CCW law as a bone they can throw their rural and exurban voters.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. In my opinion, from far away in Florida ...
it looks like the end of the Daley era will have a significant effect.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bold Lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #13
23. Like how Ann Richards vetoed it in Texas. How did the rest of those
dominoes fall again?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 19th 2024, 02:49 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Guns Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC