As gun battle shows, every right has limits

[jpak]

http://www.philly.com/philly/opinion/120758999.html

Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer's veto last week of the so-called birther bill overshadowed her rejection of another piece of hot-button legislation: a bill to allow gun owners to carry their weapons on public university and community-college campuses.

<snip>

The failed bill would have lifted those bans to permit the carrying of guns within public rights of way on campuses. That restriction to campus streets and byways was something of a compromise; an earlier version of the legislation would have permitted the carrying of concealed weapons in campus buildings, including classrooms.

Legislation similar to the Arizona bill has been pushed by gun-rights advocates, and opposed by gun-control proponents, in many states since the 2007 Virginia Tech massacre. So far, 45 attempts to lift campus gun bans have failed in 24 states.

<snip>

On the other hand, colleges and universities tend to be gun-free zones, and homicides on campus are rare, typically numbering fewer than 20 a year. Gun-control proponents say that shows there's no need for guns on campus.

<more>

Even GOP/NRA over-reach has it's limits

yup

[Katya Mullethov]

1. Of 45 attempts

It has succeeded 21 times .

[lawodevolution]

2. It's already limited, can't shoot in public but you can express yourself in public and should be

Able to keep and bear arms in public.

[safeinOhio]

3. You think guns should have more rights than

breast? Can't bare them in public.

:silly:

[PavePusher]

4. I haven't seen any legislative proposals to do away with public nudity laws....

but if any show up, I'd vote in favor of 'em.

[RSillsbee]

8. Nope but you sure can BEAR them in public NT

[safeinOhio]

13. I can't take my bare, bear

anywhere either.

[RSillsbee]

15. BTW you never answered my question

since crime is at historic lows and gun ownership is at historic highs why do you support more restrictive gun laws?

[safeinOhio]

16. There was no question mark.

While crime is down, gun crime seems to be on the rise.

http://www.freep.com/article/20110427/NEWS01/104270448/1001/news/Homicides-nonfatal-shootings-Detroit-jump-other-crimes-fall

So, why do you wish to make gun laws less restrictive than the ones now in place that you say are working?

[X_Digger]

17. In one city, fancy that..

According to the BJS (based on FBI UCR data), the peak of gun use in crime was 1993, and it's been trending downward ever since. (2007- the latest year data is available- was almost half the rate of what it was in 1993.)

[safeinOhio]

19. Could be a trend

http://www.dotnews.com/2011/feds-boston-cops-team-get-illegal-guns-streets-tiny-potent-taurus-pist

Like I said, if current laws are working, why would anyone want to make them more strict or more liberal?

[X_Digger]

20. Trying to 'connect the dot', are you?

Hint, the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'.

Check the 2009 UCR expanded data. Roll over the table names and check the ones 'by weapon'. Percent by firearm as well as rate are the same or less than 2008, for all categories.

e.g. - http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/data/table_15.html

[safeinOhio]

22. Trends tend to trend.

Changes in trends are normal.

[X_Digger]

24. Need one explain the concept of averages?

And how some data points will be above the average and some will be below the average?

*shakes head*

[RSillsbee]

21. Since you're the one that asked

why would anyone want to make them more strict or more liberal?

Perhaps you could answer (instead of evading) why do you want handgun registration (stricter) mandatory safety classes for handgun purchases (stricter)the same background check for handgun purchase as for CHP (stricter).

So why do you want to make handgun laws more strict?

Please be specific

TYPO

[TheWraith]

10. You should be able to. nt

[Bold Lib]

18. Guns don't have rights.

People do.

[safeinOhio]

23. What about bare bears?

[Bold Lib]

27. Try again.

[LAGC]

5. Wow, you must be so proud that a Republican governor vetoed this.

Republican anti-gun activism.

Yup.

[DonP]

6. Going to send her a check now? Another of your new GOP Buddies.

Here's another chance to support a politician that agrees with you and did the "right thing". Let her know you're behind her with an "attaboy letter" and $10 or so.

Do you have Helmke and Brewers pictures on the wall of your rec room now?

[DWC]

7. It is illegal

to CCID (Concealed Carry Illegal Drugs)on campus. I wonder how many students and staff disregard that fact.

Semper Fi,

[PavePusher]

9. She vetoed it because it had gotten ammended to the point....

where it was ambiguous and no longer effective to it's original intent.

Good move on her part. Badly written laws should be round-filed.

Yeah, that tasted odd...

[rl6214]

26. Yeah but he knew that as I think he posted the same thing last week

and it was pointed out to him then.

[ileus]

11. 20 is a pretty acceptable number of dead I would think.

[spin]

12. The movement to allow concealed carry on campus has just started ...

it's far too early to pat yourself on the back and declare victory.

In some states it took years to get "shall issue" concealed carry passed but eventually it happened.

[krispos42]

14. "homicides on campus are rare"

That's a very narrow range in that it's limited to the most extreme sort of violent attack, AND the narrower geographic area of a university campus.

So if somebody is returning to home directly from class and gets beaten and robbed in the parking lot, that's not included included in the statistics, BUT it is a situation where being allowed to carry on campus would have directly affected the student's ability to defend him or her.

[Glassunion]

25. What about Rape, Assault, Robbery or Hate Crimes?

Sure there are only about 20 homicides...

What about the following? Or do these numbers not count? Over-reaching... I think not.

2009 - On Campus
Forcible Rape = 2,591
Non-forcible Rape = 72
Robbery = 1,866
Assault = 2,675

2009 - On Campus Student Housing Facility
Forcible Rape = 1,792
Non-forcible Rape = 37
Robbery = 198
Assault = 838

2009 - Non Campus buildings or Properties
Forcible Rape = 312
Non-Forcible Rape = 7
Robbery = 231
Assault = 372

2009 - Public Property
Forcible Rape = 381
Non-forcible Rape = 21
Robbery = 2,578
Assault = 1,942

2009 Hate Crimes
On Campus = 387
On Campus Student Housing Facility = 134
Non Campus buildings or Properties = 13
Public Property = 96


Glossary
On-Campus: (1) Any building or property owned or controlled by an institution within the same reasonably contiguous geographic area and used by the institution in direct support of, or in a manner related to, the institution's educational purposes, including residence halls; and (2) Any building or property that is within or reasonably contiguous to paragraph (1) of this definition, that is owned by the institution but controlled by another person, is frequently used by students, and supports institutional purposes (such as a food or other retail vendor).

On-Campus Student Housing Facility: Any student housing facility that is owned or controlled by the institution, or is located on property that is owned or controlled by the institution, and is within the reasonably contiguous geographic area that makes up the campus is considered an on-campus student housing facility.

Noncampus building or property: (1) Any building or property owned or controlled by a student organization that is officially recognized by the institution; or (2) Any building or property owned or controlled by an institution that is used in direct support of, or in relation to, the institution's educational purposes, is frequently used by students, and is not within the same reasonably contiguous geographic area of the institution.

Public Property: All public property, including thoroughfares, streets, sidewalks, and parking facilities, that is within the campus, or immediately adjacent to and accessible from the campus.