Concealed carry goes into effect April 8th in Ohio

[doc03]

Local sheriff said the criminals have always had guns, now the
law abiding citizen will have that right.

[Bill McBlueState]

1. I hear most police are opposed

But I suppose the small-town sheriffs are behind it. I'm glad to be away from small-town Ohio. 17 years was plenty.

[slackmaster]

10. I visited a VERY small town in northeastern Ohio once

For my then-wife's family reunion. About 100 relatives showed up. The town's population was 72.

It's a very different life than I'm accustomed to. Almost everyone was involved in agriculture, either as a farmer or in some kind of food processing operation. One cousin arranged bacon slices for Oscar Meyer. His hands were perfect.

The part that made me most uncomfortable was the degree to which life revolved around the church. The town had a small historic Methodist chapel (though there were many Amish in the countryside). Everyone in town, guests included, was expected to show up at church on Sunday.

Not a drop of alcohol was consumed at the reunion. People who drink there do so privately and don't talk about it. The mayor (another cousin) told me they used to have a town drunk but he had moved away years ago.

[demsrule4life]

11. My wife is from a small Ohio town

(Franklin) we just got back from our honeymoon and attended a family reunion at Armco park. My wife and I were laying in the grass doing some smootching when some guy came up and started yelling at us for having "sex" in public. Me being me and just getting out of the MP's said a few choice words back. I havent been back their since, and that is going on 30 years.

[sasquatch]

17. I live in Carlisle, that's in between Franklin and Middletown

We call Franklin "Ranklin" or "Skanklin". There's a lot of Neo-Confederate appalacians in Franklin.

[doc03]

21. It may be Mayberry to you. I lived in the DC area 2 years and I will take

small town Ohio over that any day. I don't have to put 3 locks on my
doors and have a security system. The only time I have ever been exposed to any crime was when I lived in DC, someone tried breaking into my apartment. A neighbor lived in Cleveland a couple years, he had his car stolen, his apartment broken into 2 times and was mugged, they stole his wallet and even the leather jacket he was wearing. If
I ever miss sitting in traffic for an hour I can drive about 60 miles to Pittsburgh for the experience.

[FatSlob]

12. Small town Sheriffs?

Hell, Ohio is one of the biggest states in the US. It has two NFL teams, two MLB teams, one MLS, one NBA, the largest single campus university in the world, the longest running 5 star restaurant in the United States. There are at least 5 big cities, Cincinnati, Columbus, Cleveland, Dayton, and Toledo. It is a big state. Like every state that borders it, and every state south of it, I expect Ohio will have a decrease in violent crime when CCW licenses are issued. I will get one on April 8th.

[Bill McBlueState]

13. I know how many sports teams Ohio has.

I'm also pretty good at geography.

The police in those large cities (Cleveland at least) don't like concealed carry.

But the county sheriffs, who typically hold more power than police chiefs in the rural areas of the state, appear to favor it. Ohio might have at least five big cities, but it has hundreds of villages. (No towns, though... there's no legal entity called a "town" in Ohio; it's either a city or a village.)

[MrBenchley]

14. I guess the theory here is

that any innocent bystander accidently gunned down by an armed neurotic having Charles Bronson fantasies will haul himself and gasp out with his dying breath..."I don't mind, we'll still have the Cincinnati Bengals....."

[Bill McBlueState]

15. the bengals

I'd pay *a lot* of money to hear anyone say "I don't mind, we'll still have the Cincinnati Bengals....." with his dying breath! *lol*

[doc03]

26. Who cares if you call them a town or a village, what the hell does that

have to do with anything. Anyway if you get a map out every state in the union has small towns or villages. How do you know what the Cleveland police want or don't want? What makes people from a tiny little fly speck of a state like MA think they know whats best for us.

[MrBenchley]

29. Gee, doc...

I find it funny as hell that somebody who doesn't know that basic fact about Ohio wants to lecture us about what its citizens "want."

[doc03]

42. If you read the posts I never mentioned the word (town) in the

first place, another person brought up the small town Ohio remark. Also a sheriff is a county office not a town, village, city or whatever. And what does that have to do with CC?

[MrBenchley]

55. And what was that other person trying to do, doc?

Lecture us on what Ohio's citizens supposedly "want."

[iverglas]

27. so it wasn't

... like Phil Ochs told it? ;)

Boy In Ohio

Creek was running by the road
And the Buckeye sun was a-shinin'
I rode my bike down Alum Creek Drive
When I was a boy in Ohio

The English teacher he didn't care
He challenged us to checkers
And once in a while we'd swap a joke
When I was a boy in Ohio

Once I was caught playing hooky from school
They found me home in the evening
I confessed I had been to the movie show
When I was a boy in Ohio

We would wait for the summer to come
For swimmin' and pickin' berries
But now a freeway covers the field
Where I used to be so happy

I remember the Burger Boy
Where the girls would shine like the engines
And the radio was always loud
When I was a boy in Ohio

Spanish teacher she tried to help
She was much too pretty
So I just stared at the back of her legs
When I was a boy in Ohio

It was 3.2 beer at the honky tonk bar
Where they said the girls were easy
But somehow I never found me one
When I was a boy in Ohio

Soon I was grown and I had to leave
And I've been all over the country
But I don't believe I've had more fun
Than when I was a boy in Ohio

.

[asthmaticeog]

2. Question

Isn't there like a HUGE number of people due to lose their unemployment benefits soon? Because add that to concealed carry plus all those Cleveland police layoffs, and I estimate my chances of getting mugged (again) are going to shoot through the fucking roof, with a convergence of events like that.

[doc03]

3. The people that are going to mug you have always had their guns!

[MrSandman]

4. I don't think the muggers are...

going to PAY for classes, licenses, etc.

[doc03]

5. I hear the application is $45 and the safety class runs about $80.

I really can't understand why people have a problem with this. They run a background check on you, if you have a record you can't get the permit. The freeway shooter in Columbus didn't have a concealed carry
permit and probably wouldn't have got one, I think he had a history of mental problems. In this area everyone has a gun and we have to
import most of our crime from Cleveland and Detroit. One of our most recent murders was two illegal Mexican farm workers shot a third one. Nearby Wheeling has the 3rd lowest violent crime rate in the nation.

[Me Me Meme]

6. That's cheaper than Minnesota by about half

I wonder why?

Although there's no way I'd EVER move away from MN - except maybe to WI. This is the best place in the world!

[MrBenchley]

7. Meanwhile in the real world...

"The freeway shooter in Columbus didn't have a concealed carry
permit and probably wouldn't have got one, I think he had a history of mental problems."
Actually, he wouldn't have had any problem, thanks to the half-assed job Ohio does with its gun laws NOW.

"Even if such a record existed, it likely would not have shown up in a required background check for a gun purchase. That's because only a handful of states make any mental-health information available to the national background databank used for checking gun buyers. Nearly two-thirds don't even compile such information. As a result, a 1968 federal law designed to keep guns away from the mentally ill is toothless."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=46359&mesg_id=46359

Blame the GOP and the corrupt gun industry...

[slackmaster]

9. So let's fix the NICS database

Get all states on board, contributing mental health adjudication records like they should have been doing all along.

Blame the GOP and the corrupt gun industry...

Yes, always blame the Twin Bogeymen of the Gunocalypse. It's so much easier than offering constructive, workable suggestions.

:eyes:

[doc03]

20. The freeway shooter didn't need a concealed carry permit anyway.

The law doesn't go into effect until April 8, that has nothing at all to do with a law abiding citizen having a concealed carry permit. Like the sheriff said criminals will always will have a gun if they want one. The only way you could be sure that criminals didn't get one would be to confiscate every gun in the US, even then you could
make one in yourself if you had the desire. Also our Governor was dead set against the CC until the state Highway Patrol was satisfied with it.

[MrBenchley]

30. Too too funny....

"The only way you could be sure that criminals didn't get one would be to confiscate every gun in the US"
Gee, having background checks at gun shows would sure cut down on them getting guns...but the gun lobby is doing all it can to keep that happening.

For that matter registering guns and having a ballistic signature database would help too, but the gun lobby doesn't wnat those. But then the gun lobby is making quite a pretty penny selling guns to criminals.

[MrSandman]

31. Doesn't NY and MD have ballistic signatures?

How many cromes has that solved, let alone prevented?
Then how much has it cost?
Is it efficient?

Nice strawman though.

[FeebMaster]

32. You don't understand.

It's all those out of state guns committing the crimes. If they had those programs at the national level things would be different. :eyes:

[MrSandman]

33. My bad

[MrBenchley]

35. Doesn't they have?

I don't know how many cromes they have solved, sandman...I know right wing loonies keep claiming "none" but you knowe they're lying shitheels. How many were solved by fingerprint databases?

Imagine how difficult it would be to solve crimes if only two states had fingerprint databases.

[MrSandman]

38. C'mon,

All the crimes in NY, there has to be a case you can cite.

Maryland's experience demonstrates that fingerprinting is an expensive waste of time. The state spent $1.1 million on its computer system, and spends roughly $800,000 a year running the program. It has solved no crimes.

All that money could hire a lot of police officers.

http://www.dodgeglobe.com/stories/102402/opi_fingerprinting.shtml

3. MARYLAND'S MANDATE FOR BALLISTIC FINGERPRINTING OF HANDGUNS IS AN ABJECT FAILURE.

The mandate cost taxpayers well over $5 million by last summer, yet now in its third year of use the software has yet to solve a single crime. Recorded administration testimony in 2000 claimed this program would have immediate benefit in crime investigation, but now even proponents say the software won't solve its first crime here for several years.

http://www.direct-action.org/Articles/pr-caldoj3.html

But the biggest advantage of ballistic fingerprinting? It creates a national registry of firearms and their owners. If that IS the objective, just do it and save the obfuscation.

[MrBenchley]

40. Gee, sandman...

You mean you think the police put out a press release every time they solve a crime? That's so pweshus.

"But the biggest advantage of ballistic fingerprinting? It creates a national registry of firearms and their owners. If that IS the objective, just do it and save the obfuscation."
well, fuckin duh.

[MrSandman]

45. Nice strawman

I do mean I think they do that...

Or do they just arrest people in NY without telling them what they are accused of?

Now what about the MD lack of success with ballistic fongerprinting? The night is heavy with expectation.

[MrBenchley]

49. Gee, sandman, then show us

the press releases....

"Now what about the MD lack of success with ballistic fongerprinting? "
It's all in the gun nuts' heads....

[MrSandman]

53. Show us it's not made of straw...

One solved...no apprehension yet:
http://www.ci.nyc.ny.us/html/nypd/html/wanted/mv-kurk-broaster.html

Or another one:

Drug Arrests Made in Nicholas County

http://www.wvstatepolice.com/news/

There is a solution that may work...if gun control advocates would accept the limitations of current technology:

NanoVia’s NanoTagTM Ballistic ID TagTM does not require national registration of new firearms or cross-jurisdictional databases of ballistic “fingerprint” images of those new firearms. Simply put, the NanoTagTM Ballistic ID TagTM replaces the ambiguous “scratch and ding” imaging and analysis, with a proof-positive ID technology.


http://www.nanoinvestornews.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1295

[MrBenchley]

56. Sure...

soon as you show me those press releases that police departments put out as they solve each crime....

[MrSandman]

61. Been there; done that...

I still see straw.

BTW, the opinion of California DoJ:
"No technology designed specifically for ballistic fingerprinting exists for the moment."
http://www.direct-action.org/Articles/pr-caldoj.html

[MrSandman]

62. out of witty repartee?

[MrBenchley]

63. Yes, you were a long time ago...

just as you were out of facts. That's why there's no further need to waste time showing it.

[doc03]

43. Mrbenchley , I agree with you on the gun shows. I don't know if you go

to any gun shows, but the big problem I see with them is an individual
can bring a gun in and make a private trade with no record. It seems to me that is the real attraction of them, it gives people a meeting place to trade guns under the table. The ones that I have been to the dealers still need to follow the law and fill out the government forms. Of course people will still trade guns in the classifieds in the newspapers or privately.

[RoeBear]

8. The people who get CCW permits are...

...more crime free than the police.

[FeebMaster]

16. Get some hip waders,

there's going to be blood in the streets!

[slackmaster]

18. You'll need hip waders but not for the blood

Take a clothespin for your nose.

Oops! I made a scatological reference. Sorry.

:evilgrin:

[Me Me Meme]

19. Welcome to America, Ohio!

We've had this a year or so with virtually no problems whatsoever. It's funny though...as hard as I fought for this, I still haven't gone and actually gotten the permit yet. But freedom of choice is a WONDERFUL thing.

[CO Liberal]

22. Welcome To The List Of The Stupid, Ohio

CCW is one of the worst ideas ever, IMHO.

[FeebMaster]

23. I agree.

Ohio should have passed a law allowing people to carry without a permit. This permit stuff is terrible.

[CO Liberal]

24. No, It's The Carrying Concept That's Terrible

Someday, they'll be a huge gunfight in the street between assholes with concealed weapons, and the everyone will be shaking their heads and wondering why......

[FeebMaster]

25. Yes I'm sure that will happen

any day now.

[Liberal Classic]

28. Re: huge gunfight in the street between assholes

How many times has this happened in states that have had similarly liberalized carry laws for some years? Some states have for over ten years.

[Me Me Meme]

34. Someday?

That's absurd! "Someday there's gonna be...." You have no way of knowing that, and neither do I.

It's been a non-issue here so far. The state has issued about the amount of permits they anticipated, and crime among CCW holders is insignificant. Firearm related crime among CCW holders is essentially non-existant. There was a thread about this not too long ago right here, just after MN came out with it's first year report. Some counties are kvetching about costs, but money's tight all over, and frankly I think if they tightened up their operations a bit, it too would be a non-issue.

Yeah, it's just a year, but a year's a year. And some states have been at it a lot longer with similar results.

Oh yeah, are you talking about "concealed weapons" or LEGALLY held concealed weapons? A gangbanger with a Raven tucked in his pants is an asshole with a concealed weapon. The woman in my apartment building who jogs every morning before dawn carrying a Kahr in a fanny pack is most certainly not.

Look, if there's ever "a huge gunfight in the street between assholes with concealed weapons", you'll be able to cluck your tongue and say you were right all along.

Till then, the shrill warnings of blood in the streets are just fear-mongering... the same kind the Bushies use to get things like, oh let's say the Patriot Act. It's a load of crap there, and it's a load of crap here.

Edited 'cause my typing sucks.

[CO Liberal]

36. And If It Ever DOES Happen....

...how would we prevent it from happening again? Cancel everyone's permits and expect them to voluntarily stop carrying??

Once that genie's out of the bottle, there's no turning back. I hope you pro-gunners know what the fuck you're doing.

[Me Me Meme]

37. We do!

And since the CCW pendulum is swinging our way now, you're just gonna hafta have a little faith, 'cause you've pretty well lost this one and your gonna have to get used to that. The genie IS out of the bottle.

Besides, what are you worried about? Look, you said you lived in Fort Lee, NJ, right? The nation's asshole. And you were safe, and felt safe. You also said your eyesight approaches Mr.Magoo and you've had three collisions in four years. I submit that you have far more immediate safety concerns than people who have been through the CCW permit process!

And not that it matters to the conversation at all, I just saw "Lost In Translation" it was a perfectly delightful film. I just had to tell somebody that...

[Low Drag]

46. Your idea of creating laws targeting the exception

to the rule is turbo stupid.

What will you do if that does not happen in Colorado? It's coming up on 1 year and no incidents with CCW holders. Will you buy a gun and take the courses? Or just stop with the ignorant "what ifs"?

[slackmaster]

52. I'll tell you what will happen if your fears are ever realized

The people of the state will rise to the occasion by voting out every pro-RKBA politician.

Laws granting people more freedom can be reversed, and I'll give you an example: Look up the history of marijuana laws in Alaska.

[FatSlob]

39. Indiana has had it for decades, no problems

There are ccw holders cross country. What you say has not yet happened, and the Free states are typically doing better, crime wise, than the authoritarian states.

For those who don't get it: Note Bene that "authoritarian" in this context refers only to gun control policy.

[MrBenchley]

41. Too frigging funny...

Indianapolis declared a crisis some months ago...Gary and Indianapolis average about 200 gun murders a year between them...and this by you is "no problem?"

Koresh knows how muvh bloodshed there'd have to be before gun nuts would consider it a problem.

[Me Me Meme]

47. How many...

of those murders are committed by CCW holders? I'm sure you've got a nice shiny statistic for us don'cha? Unless, of course, your argument is full of shit...hmmmm?

You seem to love Koresh - why weren't you at WACO? It would have been a great place for you...

[MrBenchley]

50. How many do you need?

A comprehensive study (in Texas) showed CCW holders committing crimes at a much higher clip than the gneral population.

http://www.vpc.org/fact_sht/texaskey.htm

A March 1995 study by criminologists in the University of Maryland examined the effects of the weakening of CCW laws in three states, including Florida, and concluded that gun homicides increased by an average of 26%, while homicides by other means did not increase.

Of course this is the gun nuts' cue to whine and cry that the studies is "anti-gun."

The latest tactic by the corrupt gun industry and the GOP is to demand that all information on what neurotics got pistol permits be kept from the public. Wonder why?

Incidentally, we had a wonderful thread on here discussing Minnesota's experiences...here's the sort of upstanding citizens who feel they have to tote a pistol around...and bear in mind that thanks to the corrupt gun industry and the GOP, some of these charmers actually could not be prevented from getting a pistol permit.

--Has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for more than one year.
--Has fled from any state to avoid prosecution for a crime or to avoid giving testimony in any criminal proceedings.
--Is an unlawful user of any controlled substance as defined in Chapter 152.
--Has been committed to a treatment facility in Minnesota or elsewhere as a "mentally ill," "mentally retarded," or "mentally ill and dangerous to the public" person as defined in Minnesota Statute § 253B.02.
--Has been convicted of a gross misdemeanor for the crime of assault motivated by bias (609.255).
--Danger to self or others.
--Marijuana conviction in Texas.
--Crim. History states "disqualified for Firearms".
--Warrant out of another state (ND).
--Applicant lied regarding current address.
--Reckless discharge of firearms.
--Several law enforcement contacts for mental health issues. Two commitments by county and one self commitment.
--Pending case involving a loaded uncased handgun in a motor vehicle. Found during a traffic stop on a driving complaint.
--Charged in WI with Carrying a ConcealedWeapon, pled to Transporting a Loaded/Uncased Firearm. Involved a traffic stop, had 2 handguns in vehicle, one loaded under the driver's seat, the other unloaded in the glove box. Subject had a large knife on self and another one
located in the driver's side door pocket.
--Continued assaultive behavior pattern with alcohol use.
--Arrested & placed in treatment.
--Arrested for 2nd degree assault, domestic assault and animal cruelty
--Interviews with people that know the applicant revealed explosive temper and brought illegal weapons to work place.
--Charged and investigated for CSC with the use of a firearm.
--Investigated and arrested for terroristic threats.
--Convicted for possession of a pistol without a permit, threatened wife and child during incident.
--Applicant divulged he had shot a person in the past.
--Convicted for multiple DWI and history of assaultive behavior.
--Threatened mother with a rifle.
--Convicted for domestic assault.
--Threatened Co-worker.
--History of suicidal thoughts and threats.
--Multiple DWI convictions and history of assaultive behavior.
--Suspected gang member, arrested and charged for firearms violations.
--GM theft conviction as armed security.
--Multiple alcohol related offenses.
--Suicide attempt, conviction for criminal damage to property and auto theft arrests.
--History of assaultive behavior, and burglary arrests and convictions.
--Conviction for GM possession of a firearm and assault.
--Arrests for firing gun in city limits, suspected gang member.
--Incidents of threatening behavior, history of alcohol abuse.
--Assault 5 conviction, felony theft arrest.
--Incident involving terroristic threats with the use of a firearm.
--Multiple DWI arrests
--Terroristic threats arrest.
--Suspected gang member, domestic assault arrest.
--Arrest for assault 1, criminal vehicular injury related DWI conviction.
--Unauthorized use of a motor vehicle conviction and arrest for robbery.
--Gross misdemeanor theft conviction and numerous pending investigations.
--Six DWI convictions.
--Disorderly conduct conviction, arrest for domestic assault.
--Conviction for reckless discharge of a firearm and threatened suicide with a firearm.
--Convicted for possession of a pistol without a permit.
--Domestic related arrest, felony burglary conviction.
--Convicted possession of a pistol without a permit, attempted burglary and assault arrest.

Yeah, these are the voters Democrats should be pandering to...NOT!





"You seem to love Koresh"
Not me...but he's the gun nuts' little tin god.

[slackmaster]

51. Six-year-old bullshit from the VPC is still bullshit from the VPC

Here's some more current data from the Texas Department of Public Safety:

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/convrates.htm

About 1% of Texans have concealed-weapons permits.

[doc03]

44. Update with links

http://www.timesleaderonline.com/news/story/042202004_new02_flood.asp
http://www.timesleaderonline.com/news/story/042202004_new01_guns.asp

These have come out since the sheriff made his comment on TV Friday
evening. I couldn't edit my original post edit time is expired.
Sheriff McCort and State Rep. Charlie Wilson are both Democrats.

[OpSomBlood]

48. Thumbs up for Ohio

I live in Florida, the first state to issue concealed-carry licenses, and police here pretty much unanimously agree that they are a good thing. The last statistic I read was something like 0.2% of gun crimes are committed by people with CC permits.

I'm glad that as a law-abiding citizen I am granted the right to carry a gun and defend myself if I feel threatened.

[Dark]

54. Yee-Haw!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm gonna call up Dubya and play cowboys 'n injuns. After that, wes can sits and eats a picnic dinners. Ashcroft'll bring the bill 'o rights. Wes gonna use that as a napkin.

[FatSlob]

57. That made sense.

Thanks for playing.

[CO Liberal]

58. Makes About As Much Sense.....

...as anything I've heard lately from Wayne LaPierre or Ted "Shit for Brains" Nugent.

[FatSlob]

59. Come on Wayne

You're better than that.

[CO Liberal]

60. It's The Truth

Just about ANYTHING makes more sense that LaPierre or Nugent.