GUNS OF THE DAY--April 5, 2004

[MrBenchley]

As CO Liberal sez:
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[demsrule4life]

1. Ok everyone post your pic of what you think

should be gun of the day for 5 Apr 04.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[7th_Sephiroth]

My Nomination

Mark XIX De.50

[Superfly]

2. Here's my first big gun...

The M-109A6 15mm Paladin Howitzer. Spent my first 3 years in the Army on this beast. Great gun indeed.

[DonP]

25. Does that qualify for concealed carry?

I want that for the Chicago Dan Ryan commute every day.

I was infantry (1str Cav Airmobile) and we never got to play with those kind of fun toys. All we got were some crummy helicopters.

[demsrule4life]

26. I feel for you bro

having to make that drive every day.

[MrBenchley]

3. Family: We told of danger (NC)

"HENDERSONVILLE - After Billy Case lost his job and was evicted from his home, his sister said he began selling his guns for money to live.
On Friday, police say Case, 30, walked into the Employment Security Commission office here and fatally shot office manager Letcher Beatty, 51, and wounded another employee, Ronald Piercy, with a .45-caliber semi-automatic pistol.
Case is charged with murder and attempted murder. Police said more charges may be filed.
Baker said her parents called 911 on Monday to report that their son was dangerous, and went to the magistrate's office three days in a row to fill out paperwork asking that he be involuntarily committed.
Case had a criminal record, according to a search of court records. He pleaded guilty to forgery and marijuana possession in 1992, drug possession in 1994 and possession of an unlawful firearm on state gamelands and drug possession in 2002."

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news/local/8351574.htm

In NC, despite a criminal record and severe mental illness, he could have walked into any gun show and bought a gun without a pesky background check.

[Superfly]

6. Really, eh?

"In NC, despite a criminal record and severe mental illness, he could have walked into any gun show and bought a gun without a pesky background check."

Let's just see what the NC Sherrif's Org has to say about that little piece of pure bullshit:

"Unless an alternative is recognized (ie. CCW permit), if a person wants to purchase a firearm from a licensed dealer, the dealer must contact the Federal Bureau of Investigation's NICS Operations Center by telephone. The dealer will provide pertinent information about the purchaser to the NICS Center, which will in turn conduct a check of the available databases to see if the person is disqualified to receive or possess firearms."

Link

Inelligible persons:

"5.The person has been adjudicated mentally defective or has been committed to a mental institution."

Link

[MrBenchley]

7. Now, fly...

Show us where gun shows in NC restrict sellers to "licensed dealers."

Then tell us how this trigger-happy nutcase got his "dealer's license."

[slackmaster]

28. I suppose it would be asking too much to see some proof of this

In NC, despite a criminal record and severe mental illness, he could have walked into any gun show and bought a gun without a pesky background check.

ANY gun show?

Are you COMPLETELTY sure that each and every gun show in the state of North Carolina permits private (non-licensed) individuals to sell used firearms?

[Township75]

4. In honor of 1a2b3c...

I think an AR15 should be the gun of the day:

[Superfly]

9. Or how about the successor to the AR-15?

Looks like a nifty little rifle:

[RoeBear]

64. Looks like something from...

...Planet of the Apes, the 1970's TV show.

[MrBenchley]

10. Five shot dead in six days (VA)

"In the deadliest week the city has seen this year, five people have been shot dead in Richmond in six days.
The last time the city saw five slayings in six days was October.
"It does not appear that any of these recent murders is related," police spokeswoman Jennifer Reilly said.
Yesterday's killing was the city's 27th homicide of the year. At this time last year, Richmond had 25 slayings."

http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD%2FMGArticle%2FRTD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031774669644&path=!news&s=1045855934842

Gee, that CCW law in Virginia is working like a charm so far.

[Wickerman]

11. Lunabush's Gun of the Day

I particularly like the "diversity" color scheme:

[demsrule4life]

12. Not much range

on that popgun.

[Wickerman]

14. Damn government interference

they even mandate a shorter string on my cork.

[CO Liberal]

13. And Here's Mine!!!!

And at only $17.99, a real bargain!!!!


:-)

[Wickerman]

15. My dream gun

I got BIG plans for this summer!

[demsrule4life]

16. I have never sustained injuries from a real gun

I have a few times with one of those.

[CO Liberal]

18. But How Many Injuries Are Sustained Each Year Through Real Guns...

...as opposed to staple or nail guns?

:shrug:

[Superfly]

19. Probably quite a few less...

[CO Liberal]

34. I Guess You May Be Right

Gun injuries are usually fatal.....

[Superfly]

44. More unsubstantiated stuff....

really, who's surprised?

[CO Liberal]

54. OK -Let's Substantiate It Through a Google Search

From the Health on the Net Foundation web site:
http://www.hon.ch/News/HSN/511083.html

In looking at NIS data from more than 1,000 hospitals in 22 states reported for the year 1997, the researchers found that gunshots wounded more than 35,000 individuals.

From the "On The House" web site:
http://www.onthehouse.com/print.php?short_name=tip&article_date=20031220

Nail guns are useful tools yet are extremely dangerous. There are almost 15,000 injuries caused by nail guns -- an incredible 40 per day, 365 days a year. Most are to hands and feet, and some are quite serious.

I could not find any comparable data on staple gun injuries, but it's safe to assume that it's far less than 35,000 per year.

[Superfly]

56. Substantiate this statement...

"Gun injuries are usually fatal"

[CO Liberal]

58. It Stands To Reason...

...that a gunshot wound would be more life-threatening than a nail gi=un wound or a staple gun wound, based on the amount of tissue damage, blood loss, and shock to the system.

[Superfly]

60. I'm not asking for your test by reason...

I asked you to substantiate your claim that "gun injuries are usually fatal" with adequate published research.

[CO Liberal]

62. Can't Do It Right Now....

...but I will as soon as I can.

[Superfly]

63. Okie dokie! You'll know where to find me.

[Superfly]

100. CO, do you have time now?

Still waiting....

[MrBenchley]

72. You might also note that staple and spray guns

are subject to consumer product safety regulations....and that guns of the sort the gun porn lovers spank their cranks about are not.

A quick google search finds no staple gun recalls, and only one spray gun recall, which mentions that no one was actually injured....

[slackmaster]

79. The gun industry is self-regulating for product safety

A quick google search finds no staple gun recalls, and only one spray gun recall, which mentions that no one was actually injured....

Or so they claim.

Of course another quick Google search finds HUNDREDS of existing safety warnings and dozens of recalls for firearms.

[CO Liberal]

81. And We Know Just How Safe They Are

NOT!!!!!

[slackmaster]

82. Accidents caused by unsafe firearms are very rare

It's not the guns themselves you should be concerned with. It's the "nut behind the wheel" - Improperly trained, stupid, or evil people with guns.

[CO Liberal]

84. So You Agree With Me.....

....for the need for gun control.

:-)

[slackmaster]

86. People control and gun control

Some gun control is needed. Most of the problems are caused by the wrong people getting guns. On that we agree.

[iverglas]

88. okay

It's not the guns themselves you should be concerned with. It's the "nut behind the wheel" - Improperly trained, stupid, or evil people with guns.

It's just that if we write it this way:

Improperly trained, stupid or evil people

-- leaving off the "with guns" -- one doesn't have to be nearly as concerned about them. The evil ones, maybe. The improperly trained and stupid ones, just not at all.

Take the firearm out of the equation and out of their hands, and an "improperly trained" person, in the identical situation, is harmless. The stupid person is virtually harmless, unless s/he manages to knock a bookshelf over on your head or something. (Here speaketh the person who pulled a bookshelf over onto her head, and was left having to try to assure the handsome young ER doctor that "bookshelf" was not a euphemism for "abusive spouse".)

So as far as I can tell, what we'd need to be concerned about would be a fraction of what we now need to be concerned about, if the people in question didn't have ready access to firearms.

There will always be moronic 18 year olds who'd be happy to sit around and drink beer and play with guns. And some of them will always have idiotic grandfathers who give them the guns to play with. And other people will have small children who will be eager to play with their parents' firearms, and so on and on.

But if the people with the firearms could not legally take possession of the firearms without first having a firearms licence, and if they had to successfully take the appropriate training course before they could get that licence, and if their ownership of the firearm were registered and the law required that when not in legitimate use it be stored unloaded and separately from ammunition ... well, a few lives might be saved, at no cost worth mentioning, to anyone.

(I mean, hey, I've got a computer program for that "registration" angle that you can have, cheap. Ha ha, a Liberal Party boondoggle joke. Have you heard the one that's playing out in Parliament this season, all about how the Liberals paid millions and millions of dollars to some of their cronies in Quebec for doing nothing at all? If you ever have a few mil to spare, the Liberals can always put it to good use.)

.

[slackmaster]

92. We have plenty of good gun control laws in the USA already

The Gun Control Act properly identified people who shouldn't be allowed to have guns. The 1994 crime bill added people with convictions or ROs for domestic violence. I'm enthusiastic about keeping guns away from those folks, and I believe it can be done without creating an unwieldy gun registry or a list of gun owners.

If we'd simply disarm people as they enter a prohibited category a good chunk of the problem would go away overnight.

[iverglas]

96. ??

If we'd simply disarm people as they enter a prohibited category a good chunk of the problem would go away overnight.

Now tell me what you think the purpose of owner licensing and firearm registration is! (Apart from ensuring that owners are qualified, in the skills-tested sense, to possess firearms.)

And how you'd propose to put your proposal into effect without firearm-owner and owned-firearm information on record.

.

[slackmaster]

99. Owner licensing and registering is NOT NECESSARY to disarm

Prohibited people.

And how you'd propose to put your proposal into effect without firearm-owner and owned-firearm information on record.

Simple:

When a person is convicted of a felony, becomes subject of a domestic violence RO, etc. a search warrant is issued for that person's home, place of work, vehicles, vessels, etc. Police with metal detectors search for weapons and take any they find into custody.

This would work for unregistered firearms as well as registered ones. The fact that unregistered guns exist and always will exist ensures that a police search will always be needed to actually disarm a prohibited person. It may be costly, but if gun control is to really be enforced in the USA that's exactly what is needed.

You see, Iverglas, your fantasy of firearm registration and gun owner licensing in the USA is NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. The federal government does not have the constitutional authority to implement such a system, and there is nowhere near the political will or willingness in the nation as a whole to make the required changes to the Constitution to give the feds the power required to implement it. If the Democratic Party were to adopt gun owner licensing and gun registration as a platform plank we'd slip farther toward the abyss of single-party rule, which I'm fighting to avoid.

Some states might implement their own systems, but since we have open borders that's very little help nationwide. California has handgun registration and a license required to obtain a handgun. But we still have lots of unregistered handguns and unlicensed handgun owners even here.

There will always be millions of unregistered guns and unlicensed gun owners in this country no matter what one state or another does.

Fuggeddaboudit.

[slackmaster]

102. Read and learn more about the REAL WORLD

Even here in California where we HAVE a gun registry, people who are supposed to be disarmed aren't.

A search warrant requires probably cause. For guns, that can be either a registration record or sworn testimony that the person has one or more firearms. When a Restraining Order is in place, a search warrant is not needed - A phone call from the plaintiff is enough reason for police to search a restrainee's premises.

Yet even with these powerful tools in place GOVERNMENT IS NOT DOING ITS JOB when it comes to disarming known prohibited people.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20040406/news_lz1ed6top.html

It really makes me angry when I see people on this forum who haven't really thought the matter through all the way to its logical conclusions, bleating and braying about the "need" for a gun registry in this country. Sometimes I have to wonder who they are really working for. Do you people really want to make sure the GOP stays in power? I surely don't.

[demsrule4life]

20. How many injuries are sustained by cars?

I have been working at the Huntsville hospital for a month now. A endless line of dead and mangled bodies coming through the ER. There has been one gunshot wound, a druggie that ripped off drugs from the wrong person. What a depressing place to work, I need to get out of that place.

[iverglas]

52. injuries sustained by cars??

If you prick them, do they bleed??

heh heh.

.

[Superfly]

53. Ouch...

more likely the "pricker" would bleed.

**get your head out of the gutter, Fly**

[CO Liberal]

55. How Many More Cars Are Used Every Day Than Guns??

You would have to compare RATES of injury to get a fair comparison. And I believe that would show that guns are more dangerous than cars, in terns of injuries per user.

[MrBenchley]

73. Furthermore...

Most injuries caused by cars are caused by accident...wheras most shootings are deliberate.

A better question would be, how often does a driver get behind the wheel and deliberately try to run someone down?

[CO Liberal]

77. The Only One I Can Think Of....

...is that dentist's wife in Texas who "accidentally" ran over her cheating hubby five times with her Mercedes.....

[MrBenchley]

91. Such events are scarcer than hens' teeth

Meanwhile, you'll notice the automobile industry wasn't trying to engineer immunity from liability for itself....

[MrSandman]

98. If DUI is acccidental...

[Wickerman]

21. I got a smashed finger from a M-16

Spent a few days cleaning every friggin' one of them on post and managed to pinch a finger on about the 47th one. A little blood, a blackened nail - I was much luckier than your typical gun injury.

[demsrule4life]

22. Kind of like M-1 thumb?

[FatSlob]

32. Why were you assigned clean-up duty?

I have a nice gun injury right now. I fired too many rounds from my new 1943 vintage 8mm Mauser. My shoulder is sore. I also have a couple of cuts on my hands from cleaning the sucker.

[Wickerman]

35. Casual status until trainig started

4 days and the Army couldn't figure out what to do with us AF losers. So, they assigned us gun cleaning duty so they could laugh at us since we weren't known to sleep with our weapons... :P

[FatSlob]

37. This was some sort of Joint Service training?

Tell me more about why a wing-wiper was hooking up with the grunts.

[Wickerman]

38. check yer PM

[DonP]

40. Pinching when closing is required I think

After about five smashed fingers and inumerable small blood blisters, where I "thought" my fingers were clear of the upper when closing I finally started taking both pins loose and cleaning them separately.

Actually the M-16 pinch is alot more painful than M-1 thumb, IMHO.

[slackmaster]

43. Yes, those bolt lugs do a number on your skin

And the edge of the ejection port can leave a painful mark.

[Wickerman]

65. Can't say, never handled a M-1

but the M-16 brought a tear to my eye, if I recall correctly. What you describe sounds like what I did. I think the Army boys were surprised that the AF guy could swear so well.

[slackmaster]

67. I wonder how many people have died of Garand Thumb or M16 Finger

After all, "Gun injuries are usually fatal....."(TM)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=49490&mesg_id=49535&page=

[Wickerman]

68. I don't know about how your stepfather taught you to shoot

and again, I've never handled a M-1, but my DI's taught us to gently squeeze the trigger of the M-16, with our finger so, I'm gonna guess that more have died from the squeeze of a M-16 finger than a Garand thumb, whatever the hell you do with that.

:evilgrin:

[texasdem99]

80. Hey! Is that one of those Rasta Guns?

n/t

[MrBenchley]

17. Backers of march unswayed by delay (PA)

"The Palm Sunday March to Save the Children, set for yesterday, was postponed because of inclement weather.
The event, now set for 3 p.m. Saturday, was expected to attract thousands to march in silence in the neighborhood where Faheem Thomas-Childs, 10, was fatally wounded in the cross fire of an early morning gunfight outside T.M. Peirce Elementary School, at 23d and Cambria Streets in North Philadelphia.
The community outcry over the Feb. 11 shooting of Faheem and the killing of 22 other Philadelphia schoolchildren since September prompted community activists to call for a massive march to be led by children and the families of some of the victims.
"It's a decision we had to make," J. Whyatt Mondesire, president of the Philadelphia chapter of the NAACP, a cosponsor of the march. "The primary concern is the safety of the children." "

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/local/8356085.htm

You might recall the NAACP is on the NRA's imbecilic enemies list...almong with pretty much every actual civil rights group in existence.

[MrBenchley]

23. 15-year-old boy shot in chest with shotgun (CA)

"A15-year-old boy was shot with a shotgun at close range on Friday, police said.
He was shot in front of 1305 Bellehaven St. in Salinas around 3 p.m., police said.
The boy was struck in the right chest and right arm area. He was flown by helicopter to San Jose Medical Center."

http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/mcherald/8347455.htm

[MrBenchley]

24. Racist Gun Nut Church On Its Last Legs

And good riddance to it too....

"Matt Hale, the group's ‘‘Pontifex Maxiumus'' or supreme leader, was arrested in January 2003 for allegedly soliciting the murder of a federal judge who ruled against the group in a trademark infringement case. He was denied bail and is awaiting an April 6 trial in a Chicago jail cell.
A federal grand jury is also investigating if Hale encouraged or ordered church member Benjamin Smith to go on a shooting spree of minorities in Chicago in 1999, the Southern Poverty Law Center reports. Smith killed two people and injured eight others before taking his own life.
And Deardorff, who won't say how many group members remain, said he's ‘‘doing all the work'' to keep the group alive. From his decrepit trailer near Superior, he sends out newsletters several times a year.
Deardorff, sitting on his thin bed in a stained white T-shirt and picking dirt from his toenails, doesn't look like he can steadily hold the gun he constantly wears on his hip."

http://www.helenair.com/articles/2004/03/29/top/a01032904_01.txt

[natasha1]

27. Homeowner fatally shoots burglar

http://www.indystar.com/articles/8/134848-5508-092.html

...
Finch's daughter, Debbie Skaggs, said her father was sleeping in a recliner in the front room when he heard someone breaking out a back window and entering.

Her father got his gun, a semi-automatic pistol. "He stepped into the kitchen and he was right there. My dad told him to stop and go away," Skaggs said.

Her father told her that the man "just kept coming at him" so he fired one shot.
...

Nat

[MrBenchley]

29. Brainerd student dies in accidental shooting (MN)

"When Daniel L. Fleischhacker wasn't pinning opponents on the wrestling mat, he liked to spend his free time fishing and hunting.
Fleischhaker, 18, had grown up with guns and was used to handling them. But one of his friends might not have been.
Just after 3 a.m. Saturday, the Brainerd High School senior was at home in his bedroom with two close friends Daggot Brook Township, near Brainerd, Minn. One of them picked up a shotgun that Fleischhacker had recently received from his grandfather. It went off; the slug hit Fleischhacker in the neck, killing him instantly."

http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/4704712.html

[iverglas]

31. too bad he didn't make it to university

If he'd been fortunate enough to live on campus in Birmingham, Alabama (and, I imagine, most other university campuses), and of course if he'd obeyed the rules, there wouldn't have been a shotgun in his room for him to get shot with.

Imagine having to live the rest of your life as the other 18-year-old who was holding the shotgun.

But I suppose he might say that his friend's death was just the price of his freedom ...

That freedom, it can be damned expensive stuff sometimes. Luckily, it's rationed and price-controlled where I'm at.

.

[TX-RAT]

33. Had grown up with guns and was used to handling them?

OK....We have 3 boys playing with a loaded shotgun at 3 in the morning while moms asleep. Pretty much answers any of my questions.

[Wickerman]

36. Yeah, and just think

had he lived, in a few short months that boy, a HS senior, could've been Iraq bound as another career option instead of college. Now that we know the answers I'm afraid to learn the questions... :eyes:

[MrBenchley]

39. Guess that's what passes for responsible gun ownership...

[slackmaster]

42. Every child deserves to be taught basic safe gun handling

Most parents aren't competent to teach it. I was fortunate to have the tutelage of an experienced military firearms instructor for free - He was my stepfather.

Gun safety should be taught to every kid in public schools, just like sex education, driver training, avoiding poisonous animals, and drug abuse resistance. Improperly secured firearms will always be around as long as there are stupid people. Guns should be regarded as potential environmental hazards just like black widow spiders, bad drivers, and people infected with HIV.

Someone failed to educate the boys in this story. We all failed them.

[CO Liberal]

57. They Were Failed....

...when someone did not lock their guns away. They never should have been able to access that gun, period.

[slackmaster]

66. Yes, every gun owner should behave responsibly

But because we are all human and some of us are dumbshits you can't count on people doing the right thing every single time.

You can control access to the guns in your own home. You can't always make your kids' friends' parents do the right thing.

That's why every kid should be armed with knowledge.

[iverglas]

71. "every kid should be armed with knowledge"

That has just worked so excellently well in matters like, oh, teen pregnancy and STDs. Not to mention jumping off bridges and such-like structures, driving really fast, abusing alcohol, ... .

It's called risk-taking behaviour. And it's what kids do. It's a product of a long process called "evolution", and evolution just doesn't turn around when it encounters a stop sign.

It's truly amazing how many kids will actually do things that they know they're not supposed to do and they've been told might cause them harm, isn't it?

Tough shit for them. Do it and die, kid, and *then* you'll never do it again. And I suppose that some will say the gene pool will be a little improved. I'm not among them.


Is somebody seriously suggesting that these 18-year-olds did not know the first thing about the firearm they were playing with? It was 3 in the morning; is somebody seriously imagining that they were just taking a break from their social studies homework?

I'll bet they were all sober as judges, and one of them had just never seen a firearm before and had never been told not to play with firearms, and oops.

Cripes.

.

[slackmaster]

78. Teaching a survival skill is like giving someone a tool

They may throw it away, or they may put it into their toolbox and never use it, or they may pick it up and use it later, or they may start using it immediately. I can't guarantee that more safety training would have prevented this tragic event, but I doubt very much that it would have made matters worse.

...Is somebody seriously suggesting that these 18-year-olds did not know the first thing about the firearm they were playing with?...

We know for sure that ONE of them failed to observe safe gun handling rules. If he had complied with even ONE of the several rules he violated, the shooting would not have occurred. If someone taught him gun safety he failed to learn the very first lesson, and consequently failed the final exam. For people who have really learned muzzle control and the assumption of loadedness it's instinctual. I have a hard time pointing anything that remotely resembles a firearm, e.g. a power drill or broomstick, at a living being.

It was 3 in the morning; is somebody seriously imagining that they were just taking a break from their social studies homework?

I'll bet they were all sober as judges...

I thought that observation didn't need to be said aloud. It's too obvious.

I hope you don't mean to suggest we shouldn't bother with sex education because kids will have unprotected sex anyway.

[CO Liberal]

85. Bad Analogy

Sex education and gun education are not equal. How many snipers or mass murderers have used their sexual organs to kill their victims? Versus the number who used guns???

[slackmaster]

87. We're talking about avoidance of predictable hazards, not crime

The point is to teach kids from becoming victims of bad sexual choices. The topic in this sub-thread is an accidental shooting, not a crime.

[CO Liberal]

89. And This Hazard Could Have Been Prevented

If one asshole had simply secured his or her shotgun.

[slackmaster]

90. Yes, but he didn't do that

That's why I think kids should be trained in basic gun safety as a BACKUP for when the first line of defense fails.

I haven't yet see one convincing argument against gun safety education. It's nice seeing so many people agree with me, even if it's just silent assent.

[CO Liberal]

93. And I've Yet to see One Convincing Argument....

...against severe penalties for gun owners who fail to secure their guns, leading to the death or injury of others.

[slackmaster]

95. Did you do your homework before making that remark in this context?

Minnesota (where the tragic incident we're discussing occurred) DOES have a Child Access Prevention (CAP) law:

Minnesota does hold adults responsible for leaving loaded guns around
children, regulates juvenile sales and possession of guns...

See http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/reportcards/2003/mn.pdf

I wonder if it will be enforced this time. Here in California ours is only rarely enforced, because in most of the rare incidents where a child gets an improperly secured gun and gets shot, a parent was at fault. DAs are loathe to prosecute people who have just lost a child to their own stupidity.

[CO Liberal]

105. All Too Often On This Board.....

....pro-gunners use stories like this as examples of why there should be mandatory gun training in the schools, rather than mandatory storage requirements for gun owners.

And in response to your question - no. I did NOT do my "homework" before posting. If you put that requirement on everyone here, this board would be a desert.

[TX-RAT]

59. Anal Glaucoma the silent killer.

[MrBenchley]

30. Tough mental health background checks could leave gaps (OH)

Yeah, this is gonna be a helluva benefit to public safety and sanity in Ohio...

"Unlike criminal background checks, where deputies can search an expansive state database to look for disqualifying crimes, mental competency checks offer no such tools.
The Sheriffs' Association is recommending that sheriffs send a self-addressed stamped enveloped to probate courts and ask workers there to search for the results. That puts sheriffs at the mercy of those probate courts to get the results back in time.
If the 45-day clock runs out and results are not returned, the sheriff still must issue the permit.
Opponents of the gun bill also note that only a small fraction of those with mental disorders actually come in contact with the court system. As proof, they point to Charles A. McCoy Jr., the accused Ohio highway shooter.
McCoy's family described him as a paranoid-schizophrenic, but because he was never committed to a mental institution by a court, he would have been eligible to get a gun permit. "

http://www.coshoctontribune.com/news/stories/20040405/localnews/174470.html

And so the GOP and the corrupt gun industry changed the law...not to prevent him from getting a gun, but to ALLOW him to get a pistol permit.

[slackmaster]

45. So, what's the solution?

Raise the bar so that anyone with a disgnosis of <you fill in the blank here> isn't allowed to possess a firearm?

And so the GOP and the corrupt gun industry changed the law...not to prevent him from getting a gun, but to ALLOW him to get a pistol permit.

I thought that was an act of the Ohio state legislature and governor, but suit yourself.

Lack of a concealed-weapons permit made no difference at all to Charles A. McCoy Jr.

[MrBenchley]

41. 1 dead, 2 injured in cop confrontations (AZ)

"Tucson police officers shot and killed a man who had been firing a gun outside his apartment Sunday morning in the second officer-involved shooting during the weekend.
At about 10 a.m. Sunday, officers were called to the 1100 block of North Alder Avenue, near West Speedway and North Main Avenue, on reports of a naked man shooting a gun in various directions outside his apartment, Altieri said. "

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/azstar/20040405/lo_azstar/1dead2injuredincopconfrontations

Maybe the pictures overstimulated him?

[MrBenchley]

46. Gun ban in fairgrounds buildings irks some (OH)

"MANSFIELD -- Some gun owners and others are upset with plans to post 230 signs at the Richland County Fairgrounds telling visitors that concealed weapons are prohibited.
Richard A. Stark of Lucas believes the legal restriction will land county officials in court. He contends the state's new concealed-carry law, which goes into effect Thursday, spells out where licensed gun owners may take their weapons.
But Beth Miller, director of risk control services for the County Commissioners' Association of Ohio, said Stark's contentions aren't true. The state and its government subdivisions -- counties, cities, villages and townships -- are required to post warning signs, she said.
"Counties are not violating any law. In fact, the law says they have to post it," she said.
Adamant gun advocates in organized groups "don't know what's in their own law," Miller said. "They share a lot of grass-roots knowledge, and as it gets passed along, it gets distorted." "

http://www.mansfieldnewsjournal.com/news/stories/20040405/localnews/173269.html

Without deception, denial, and distortion there IS no RKBA cause...

[Superfly]

47. Goddamned crooked gun lobby...

won't somebody think of the children?

[MrBenchley]

48. Too stupid to know what's in the bill they crafted

or too dishonest to care.

Nice playmates the RKBA crowd's got.

[FatSlob]

61. The truth on Ohio.

Guns are allowed in all government owned buildings. Courthouses are the exception. However, it is ILLEGAL for these guns to be concealed. Therefore, open carry is fully legal in these fairground buildings. If a person wanted to, he could walk onto the fairgrouds with the gun concealed, he would then have to unconceal it if he wanted to walk into the flower barn or whatever. He could then re-conceal it as he left the barn/building/whatever. Guns are never allowed in a room where liquor is served (a bar).

[MrBenchley]

69. Ah, those wonderful RKBA "facts"

seem to be made up as they go along...

Wonder what sane people would think of a loony openly carrying a gun around the County Fair?

[FatSlob]

101. You're the expert on facts that are made up as they go along

I'm sure you've gotten the opinion of the County Prosecutor and the Attorney General. I have. My info is 100% correct, based upon the assumption that the land and buildings are owned by the county. Nice try, though. Read the law and consult an attorney next time, maybe you'll end up being correct. Open carry at the county fair? Go to Athens County and other Appalachian Counties, it isn't that rare. Hell, Ohio has had people open carrying all the time since last September and the Klein vs. Leis decision handed down by the Ohio Supreme Court. The decision said that carrying arms is a fundamental right.

[FatSlob]

103. Any reply? <crickets chirping>

[MrBenchley]

106. Why bother, fat slob? I already showed

what a steaming pantload your original claim was....

Adamant gun advocates in organized groups "don't know what's in their own law," Miller said. "They share a lot of grass-roots knowledge, and as it gets passed along, it gets distorted." "

And yeah, that was a refernce to shit, and deservedly so...

[FatSlob]

108. You are poorly informed and mistaken about this.

Read the article, CONCEALED are prohibited in county buildings. Also, you ought to check with the ATTORNEY GENERAL. My info is from him. Nice poop reference, though. Glad to see you are still scatologically inclined in your writing.

[RoeBear]

104. Speaking for the sane people...

...we think it would be no big deal.

What is your groups thoughts?

[MrBenchley]

107. Doubt you're qualified to serve as spokesperson...

Most sane people can see what a piece of shit American Daily is at a glance...you trotted it out like you'd found the Holy Fuckin' Grail....

[slackmaster]

49. Ban assault weapons for King, Jackson says

ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published on: 04/04/04

CHICAGO -- The Rev. Jesse Jackson said Sunday that one way to honor the legacy of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. is to renew the federal ban on assault weapons.

"A shot rang out from a high-powered rifle and Father King was killed," Jackson said during a vigil and rally in downtown Chicago.

The federal ban on manufacturing and importing at least 19 types of military-style assault weapons expires Sept. 13.

Congress must renew it and President Bush must sign it if it is to remain in effect....

For full copyrighted article see http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/0404/05jackson.html

Sounds like a nice, meaningful gesture. But there's a disconnect here: The weapon that James Earl Ray used was a scoped bolt-action Remington 30-'06 hunting rifle, not an "assault weapon" by any stretch of the imagination.

Ray's rifle is now kept at the National Civil Rights Museum. See http://www.civilrightsmuseum.org

[Superfly]

50. To quote Mr. Benchly in reply 48

Jackson is "too dishonest to care."

[slackmaster]

51. He doesn't want to be bothered with Gun Porn Details(TM)

Otherwise known as facts.

[MrBenchley]

70. 1 Killed, 1 Injured In Weekend Shooting (IN)

"One man was killed and another was seriously injured in a shooting early Sunday.
The incident happened on West 38th Street between Giuon and Kessler at about 3 a.m., RTV6 reported.
According to police, shots were fired from an SUV into a neighboring car. Adrian Henderson, 22, of Euclid Ave., died as a result of the shooting.
The second victim, Jimmy Fancher, was taken to Wishard Hospital. His condition is not known. "

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040405/lo_wrtv/2080575

[MrBenchley]

74. Man Shot, Pulled From Burning Car (OH)

"A local man was found shot to death inside a burning car Sunday afternoon.
Firefighters were called to the corner of East 67th Street and Lexington Avenue in Carthage at about 2 p.m. for a report of a car smoking badly with someone trapped inside, WLWT Eyewitness News 5's Raegan Butler reported.
When the victim, Donald Alexander, 27, was pulled from the car, police discovered that he had been shot at least once, Butler reported. "

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040405/lo_wlwt/2081226

[MrBenchley]

75. Man Shot To Death Outside Nightclub (MO)

"A man was shot to death early Monday morning outside a nightclub at 28th and Southwest Boulevard. Police identified the victim as Jonas Sanchez, a 26-year-old Kansas City resident.
The shooting happened shortly before 3 a.m. in front of the Club Oasis. Police said the victim was a man in his 20s. Witnesses told KMBC's Brenda Washington that two men were arguing outside when the victim went to his car and got a shotgun. He and the suspected shooter struggled over the gun, and the witnesses ran back inside the club, from where they heard a gunshot. They went back outside and saw the victim lying on the ground. "

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040405/lo_kmbc/2081392

[MrBenchley]

76. Police Reportedly Handcuff Dad After Basketball Game (MI)

"A man reportedly threatened to shoot officers who were investigating an assault case involving his teenage sons.
Victor Davis Rehse, 40, of Hazel Park, pleaded guilty Thursday to two counts of assault and battery, according to a report in The Daily Tribune. He is accused of punching his 15-year-old son in the face after accidentally being pushed into the fence during an outside basketball game at their house on West Otis Street, the paper reported.
Rehse also called the boy a negative name when the boy quit playing, according to the police reports. Rehse is also accused of kicking his 14-year-old son.
Police had to use force when handcuffing Rehse after he threatened to shoot officers who were called to the scene in connection with the basketball assault. "

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040405/lo_wdiv/2081860

[MrBenchley]

83. Teen Dies In Riverview Shooting (FL)

"RIVERVIEW - A shooting involving a 14-year-old and his 17-year-old brother that left the older boy dead was being investigated as an accident, a Hillsborough County sheriff's spokesman said Sunday.
The older brother was living at a foster home, officials said. Foster care officials said no adults were home at the time of the shooting late Saturday.
The 14-year-old boy and his 9-year- old brother were visiting their older brother, said Chris Card, executive director of Hillsborough Kids Inc., the private foster care agency that contracts with the Florida Department of Children & Families. The two younger brothers were not in foster care with their older brother.
Card said he was told by his staff that the gun did not belong to anyone in the foster family. He expected official word to come from the sheriff's office. "

http://news.tbo.com/news/MGAIQZ0ZNSD.html

[MrBenchley]

94. Pistol under pillow shoots sleeping man (WA)

Have to consider the source and take this with a grain of salt, but....

"GRANITE FALLS, Wash, April 3 (UPI) -- A man in Granite Falls, Wash., who slept with a pistol beneath his pillow woke up one morning last week to find the gun had gone off and shot him.
The Seattle Post-Intelligencer reported Saturday that the man, who was not identified, went to bed Thursday night with a loaded .22-caliber revolved tucked under his pistol. Sometime during the night, the gun discharged and shot him in the chest, but he apparently didn't realize he was wounded until he awoke early Friday.
He was able to get to a telephone, dial 911, and walk to his front yard to wait for an ambulance. "

http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20040403-081011-8588r.htm

As they used to sing on MST3K:

"We're a danger to ourselves and others.
Screw the earth and steal our mothers.
Leave us in the woods and we're just fine.
We're a danger to ourselves and others.
Good livestock with better lovers...."

[MrBenchley]

97. Police: Fight At Party Leads To Triple Shooting (MI)

"Police have arrested one man and are searching for another in a fatal triple shooting outside a local home.
Vernon Baggett III, Charmese Washington, 21, and Kindra Dillard, 22, were shot and killed around 12:30 a.m. Sunday in front of a home near Outer Drive and Chapel, according to police. The shooting was allegedly the result of a fight that broke out at a party Dillard, Washington and another woman attended, Local 4 reported. "

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040405/lo_wdiv/2081758