Gun range future remains undecided (Harrison County KY)

[Wickerman]

http://www.cynthianademocrat.com/articles/2004/04/14/news/news02.txt
Tuesday's meeting of the Harrison County board of adjustments produced no answers in the battle over a northern Harrison County gun range.

--snip--
The hearing was a result of an appeal of a permit granted to Lyons allowing him to operate the Richland Road gun club. The appeal, filed by Eric Bandurski and Mary Mabry, alleged Lyons did not give sufficient notice that he'd obtained the permit to operate the business. Circuit Judge Robert McGin-nis' agreed with the allegations and remanded the case back to the board for review of the permit.

The litigation was brought about by concerns about noise and environmental impact by Bandurski and Mabry. The couple alleged the range was a disturbance to the surrounding residents, including them, and it will cause lasting environmental damage due to the lead from the buckshot being fired at the range.

When questioned by his attorney, Skip Watson, Lyons stated he was complying with guidelines set forth by the Environmental Protection Authority concerning gun ranges. Lyons repeatedly pointed out there is no regulation of said ranges.


--snip

[FeebMaster]

1. Noise would be less of an issue

if sound suppressors weren't so heavily regulated.

[MrBenchley]

3. Wow, what a dreary idea, feeb....legal silencers

Unless you're the Man from Uncle, you don't need a silencer.

[FeebMaster]

6. Silencers are already legal.

They're just expensive due to the regulation and taxes on them. Most people don't want to go through the hassle of all the paperwork to get one either.

"Unless you're the Man from Uncle, you don't need a silencer."

How nice of you to tell us all what we need.

[CO Liberal]

20. And How Nice of YOU To Tell Us What To Think

:-)

[Superfly]

22. Ummm, where?

[FeebMaster]

23. I don't understand. (nt)

[CO Liberal]

26. No, I Won't Go There

It's too easy a cheap shot......

[FeebMaster]

30. Alright.

Be sure to let me know next time I tell you what to think. Was it in one of my posts or am I using some sort of mind control rays?

[Wickerman]

5. What if we mandated sound suppressors at such ranges?

Then, wouldn't that be an infringement on those users' civil liberties?

[FeebMaster]

7. I don't support mandating them

any more than I support regulating them. If they were easier to get, some people would use them, reducing the noise levels of ranges.

[slackmaster]

8. They are mandated at some ranges in Norway and Sweden

Then, wouldn't that be an infringement on those users' civil liberties?

No more than the posting rules on this forum constitute an infringement on freedom of speech.

[FeebMaster]

10. If it were the range's rule, that's true.

But if it were a law requiring suppressors that's different.

[Wickerman]

11. Please

world of difference. Govt reg vs. private ownership. This is a free site. Meaning, if you don't like the rules, and the enforcement therein, you are free to leave. Skinner has the right to establish rules as the website owner.

It has nothing to do with your 1st amendment rights - which, of course, has nothing to do with post of potential abuse of the gun owner's 2nd a rights. A shockingly bad analogy.

[slackmaster]

12. I guess it wasn't clear to me that you meant legislatively

Sorry about the confusion. Your statement about "we" mandating them could be taken to mean any of several different levels.

I'd say a municipal ordinance mandating sound supressors at outdoor shooting ranges withing city limits would not constitute an infringement on any civil liberty - A person always has the option to go shoot somewhere else.

[Wickerman]

13. I guess it could've been

though your response that listed countries that forced the mandate led me to believe you read it as the opposite.

Of course that handsome man who owns the range can mandate noise suppression (were it legal which I am not entirely clear on though I fear someone will take it on themselves to make me clear).

Similarly, he can "mandate" that all shooters wear pink tutus and hum the theme to the Mary Tyler Moore Show while sighting in.

Neither would be good for bidness.

Neither has a friggin' thing to do with their civil liberties.

Should we impose restrictions on the bang noise a gun makes I am certain folks will cry foul, just as is done when suggestion is made that we mandate gun locks or prohibit that ever so useful bayonet.

Who can turn the world on with her smile?

Who can take a nothing day (date?) and suddenly make it all worthwhile?

Its you girl, and you should know it

With every little glance and movement you show it...

Thank you Husker Du.

[TX-RAT]

15. Luna singing show tunes, now thats frightening.

[Wickerman]

17. Ya gotta hear the Husker Du version

to appreciate the depth of that song, man.

[TX-RAT]

25. Do you still throw your beret into the air?

[Wickerman]

38. yes, but I no longer use the yarn one

it was so 70's

[DoNotRefill]

51. Sure it would.

"I'd say a municipal ordinance mandating sound supressors at outdoor shooting ranges withing city limits would not constitute an infringement on any civil liberty - A person always has the option to go shoot somewhere else."


That's like saying New Jersey's gun control legislation doesn't infringe upon civil liberties, since people in New Jersey could always move someplace free.

How many people can get supressors? If shooting without supressors is illegal, and nobody can get them, they're deprived.

[MrBenchley]

2. There's the face of someone I'd trust with a gun (snicker)

[Superfly]

4. Bigotry...Ladies and Gentlemen....Exhibit A

-a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

14. Gee, that sums up the RKBA crowd...

Laryr Pratt and the Aryan Nation aren't bigots...

but somebody who thinks this bozo who looks like an unstable dip looks like an unstable dip IS.

[Superfly]

16. Your attempt at deflection is feeble

Too bad the editing period has expired, otherwise you could change your bigoted remark.

[MrBenchley]

19. Gee, fly, I'm not the bigot around here...

But hey, just for fun, I think I'll run nutso's picture again...

[Superfly]

21. Glub, glub, glub....

That's the sound of the anti-RKBA crowd drowning in their own bigotry...

[CO Liberal]

24. We Are NOT Bigots, Superfly

And when you consider the fact that many white supremicists have guns, I think it's safe to assume there are more bigots on the pro-gun side of the fence than on my side.......

[Superfly]

28. Bench made a patently bigoted remark

but, yet, you defend him and assert something compeltely unfounded.

Gee, now I see nothing is too low for the anti-RKBA crowd.

[MrBenchley]

31. Hey, if Fly couldn't run that fake flag up...

he would have had to try and figure out a way to pretend that this guy ought to be armed...

[Superfly]

33. Because he's wearing a turtleneck in April?

Yeah, you're right. That crazy motherfucker needs to be thrown in jail before he goes on a shooting rampage.

Progressives in th anti-RKBA crowd, my ASS.

[CO Liberal]

36. Tell Me...Do You Think THIS Guy Looks Mentally Balanced, Too???

:shrug:

[slackmaster]

37. If I didn't know anything else about that individual

No, I see no obvious sign of mental imbalance in that photo.

Knowing what he has said and done in the past, I see someone who lacks the class and intellect to be doing the job he's inherited.

But that's because I have prior knowledge about the man. I know things about George W. Bush based on his actual behavior. I don't have to fall back on EMPTY PREJUDICE to make a judgement about how he looks in that photo.

[Superfly]

39. He is mentally unbalanced...

but I base that on what he's said and done, not the way he dresses or looks in a photograph.

[MrBenchley]

43. Look out! He's got a gun!!

[CO Liberal]

44. Now, In THAT Picture, He DOES Look Mentally Imbalanced!!

:-)

[MrBenchley]

46. The wonder of pResident Turd

is that Photoshop is not needed to make him look ridiculous. Remember when he fell off the Segway scooter that was safe for invalids?

[MrBenchley]

40. Hard to make a better argument for more gun control....

[slackmaster]

41. Choice of attire as an argument for gun control

That's one for the files.

[Superfly]

42. Yeah, you're right...

because the ENTIRE basis of the anti-RKBA's argument is bigotry. It's pretty hard to top that.

[CO Liberal]

45. For the LAST TIME.....

We are NOT bigots simply because we don't agree with you. Any repeating of this charge by you will be taken as a personal attack.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Superfly]

50. Bench's and your remarks of that person based

only on his pictures were bigotry, 100% plain and simple. That is not a personal attack, but you can take it as such, I can give a fuck. Your comments were BIGOTRY. What or who you are, I have no idea and will not presume to assume or comment based on what you post here, but your comments were BIGOTRY.

[CO Liberal]

53. From www.dictionary.com

bigotry

\Big"ot*ry\, n. 1. The state of mind of a bigot; obstinate and unreasoning attachment of one's own belief and opinions, with narrow-minded intolerance of beliefs opposed to them.

2. The practice or tenets of a bigot.

* * * * *

Sounds like a lot of pro-gunners to me........

[Superfly]

56. Your posted definition has been demonstrated

by you and Bench in this thread. You know, you could, instead of fighting it, admit that you made a mistake, and then we can move on. No big deal.

B

[MrBenchley]

59. Or we could point out what a pantload you're peddling

and laugh our asses off. Again.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

64. Yeah, they can...

"Progressives or liberals in the anti-RKBA side"
Yeah, and hate filled crazy shitbirds like AshKKKroft and David Duke on the RKBA side.

[CO Liberal]

62. Why Should I Admit a Mistake I Didn't Make???

I'm not a bigot. Bench is not a bigot. Most of the genunine bigots are YOUR side of the pro-gun fence.

NOW, let's move on.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

58. Hell, sounds like the RKBA crowd in a nutshell

"obstinate and unreasoning attachment of one's own belief and opinions"
How many times have we seen that the Second Amendment does not confer an individual right to own a gun? How many times have we seen that the supposed bloodbath in Australia/Britain/Sweden is a load of horseshit?

The practice or tenets of a bigot.
Hey, not only is the RKBA crowd parroting the tenets of Larry Pratt, John AssKKKroft, Ted Nugent, Mary Rosh, etc., but there are occasional attempts by the bullets for brains bunch to pretend that specimens such as Pratt and Nugent are NOT bigots. And it's the same bunch that posts crap from right wing cesspools like MensNewsDaily and AmericanDaily and expects the rest of us to take that crap as gospel.

[slackmaster]

65. Here's another entry from www.dictionary.com

prej·u·dice...

1. a. An adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge or examination of the facts.

b. A preconceived preference or idea.

2. The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions. See Synonyms at predilection.

3. Irrational suspicion or hatred of a particular group, race, or religion.

4. Detriment or injury caused to a person by the preconceived, unfavorable conviction of another or others.

I think making a judgement about an individual's intellect and mental state based solely on ONE BAD STILL PHOTO fits the defintion of prejudice pretty well.

Merriam-Webster's definition 2c for prejudice reads:

2 c : an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics (emphasis added)

Don't you agree, CO Liberal? I've always regarded YOU as a reasonable person.

[CO Liberal]

69. For The Last Time, I AM NOT A BIGOT!!!!

And this is the last message I will post about this.

[slackmaster]

I've NEVER accused you OR ANYONE ELSE ON THIS BOARD

Of being a bigot.

People who aren't bigots sometimes make inappropriate judgements about others based on appearance. It happens all the time.

Good people make mistakes. Being a liberal Democrat or a progressive or a leftist does not make you immune to your own biases.

[Superfly]

71. Denial is not helping you.

[slackmaster]

34. Only if you define bigots as white supremicicts

In my experience bigots come in all sizes, shapes, genders, colors, sexual orientations, religions...

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slackmaster]

18. What makes him look like an "unstable dip" to you?

Green eyes?

Clean-shaven face?

Neatly trimmed short hair?

White skin?

Poor composition?

Bad lighting?

Turtleneck shirt?

The fact that the subject was caught in the middle of uttering a word, so his mouth is open exposing his lower teeth and his tongue?

So tell us, what makes him look like an "unstable dip" to you, MrBenchley - Physical traits over which the man has no control; the fact that he maintains a neat and clean appearance (though may be fashion-challenged); or just the poor quality of the image?

You see an "unstable dip". I see an unflattering photo.

[CO Liberal]

27. Last Time I Saw Eyes Like That Was a Picture of Charles Manson

I see an unstable dip as well.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CO Liberal]

54. Look On Your Side of the Fence Before You Point Fingers, Superfly

[FeebMaster]

55. So are you saying that the

KKK is pro-gun and for equal gun rights for all?

[CO Liberal]

67. If You Want to Align Yourself With Those Low-Lifes...

...be my guest.

[Superfly]

68. He's an American, so you are just as "aligned"....

Guilt by association. Logical fallacy.

[FeebMaster]

70. You posted the picture.

I'm not aligning myself with anyone.

[Superfly]

57. If you're trying to say something CO....

why don't you step to the plate and say it?

[slackmaster]

66. Poor attempt at deflection

Shameful, CO Liberal. You know damn well not one pro-RKBA person on this board supports the Ku Klux Klan.

[slackmaster]

32. Sorry, I don't see much similarity between the two

Just to remind people what Charles Manson actually looks like:







BTW one of my best friends has an old driver's license that he's kept for the last 30 years because he looks like Charles Manson in the photo.

My friend is no Charles Manson.

You cannot judge a person's personality or level of intelligence based solely on one photo.

[MrBenchley]

47. Can't argue with you there...

Although Helter-Skelter Charlie looks slightly more composed...

[Redneck Socialist]

49. Zoning issue

Seems to me this is a zoning issue more than a gun issue. Zoning regs are not specifically discussed in the article, but presumably many potentially objectionable businesses could move into the area.

Noise, whether from a shooting range or a factory can certainly affect quality of life, but if the area is not zoned or otherwise regulated to block undesirable businesses from moving in I would guess that there is little that the neighbors can do.

Did Lyons make any attempt to cultivate relations with his neighbors? The range I belong to goes out of its way to keep relations with the bordering property owners on a positive level. Lyons may have been able to avoid this problem with a little forethought and outreach to the community.

[Wickerman]

52. Zoning and environmental, I'd say

Thought it appears that kentucky doesn't have any such environmental protections concerning ranges. Fat Slob? Where the heel is he when ya need him? I think he is from Kentucky.

I think you are on to something about the owner - it appears he went out of his way to not form relationships with his neighbors.

[demsrule4life]

60. Our resident Kentuckian is on vacation

[FatSlob]

73. Whatcha need?

I'll help you out.

[FatSlob]

75. I'm not certain of the environmental regs in KY.

It seems that, environmentally, the range should not be a problem. Clay based soil is the ideal medium for a range. If shot were falling into a waterway, I could see the potential for environmental impact. With the limited information we have, it does not appear that environmental regs would come into effect, as they are concerned with water. An example of this would be the law/regulation requiring those shooting migratory waterfowl to use non lead shot. This was done to prevent contamination of waterways. Being unfamiliar with the zoning of the area, I can't comment on it. However, it appears initially that the gentleman in question did little to foster cordial relationships with adjoining property owners, and may not have been wholly truthful at the outset. We will have to wait and see.

[CO Liberal]

72. I Think It's Time For Me to Take Another Hiatus From This Board

I can take disagreement over the gun issue, but I will NOT tolerate being called a bigot. By ANYONE. Especially a group of people who seem to have zero tolerance with anyone who disagrees with them.

Bench, Iverglas, and the other pro-control folks - you're on you own at least for the weekend. Maybe longer....

[slackmaster]

74. Who called you a bigot?

Certainly not Superfly nor me.

FYI I try to apply the principles of General Semantics to my writing in regard to applying labels to people. Saying someone "is" X, Y, or Z makes a poor substitute for thoughtful criticism of that person's speech or behavior.

Cognitive dissonance challenges us all to question our actions. Running away from it solves nothing.

[CO Liberal]

76. I HAve Been Accused of Bigotry and Prejudice Several Times In This Thread

And that's all I can take. I'm outta here.

[slackmaster]

77. Occasional bigoted or prejudiced actions do not a bigot make

Everybody has biases. EVERYBODY!!!

We all sometimes act improperly on our biases. ALL OF US!!!

Qualifying as a "bigot" requires a consistent pattern of bigoted actions combined with a failure or unwillingness to correct mistakes we make due to our biases, especially when we are aware of those errors.

Becoming a bigot requires commitment. It's a full-time job.

For the record I am quite sure that you, CO Liberal, are not a bigot.

On edit: Improved Subject line.

[MrBenchley]

78. Most appallingly

you've been accused of it by people who go out of their way to excuse REAL bigots, and who parrot their diseased rhetoric from time to time.

[slackmaster]

80. Yadda yadda yadda

Argumentum ad hominem tu quoque, without a hint of self-awareness or any acknowledgement of the elegant irony in this thread.

:boring:

[MrBenchley]

79. Most appallingly

you've been accused of it by people who go out of their way to excuse REAL bigots, and who parrot their diseased rhetoric from time to time.

[slackmaster]

81. Nobody has ever excused bigoted behavior by anyone here

Except those who fail to see their own bigotry and excuse themselves.

[Moderator]

82. Locking.

Thread has degenerated beyond redemption.