We live in a sick society.

[PopeyeII]

http://www.cnn.com/US/9706/27/killed.babies/

Nearly 5 babies killed weekly,
FBI data show

June 27, 1997
Web posted at: 7:05 p.m. EDT (2305 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Nearly five infants under the age of 1 are
killed in the United States each week, according to a CNN review of
FBI statistics.

In the wake of several highly publicized cases of apparent infant
slayings, government officials and crime experts say there is little
reliable information on the extent of the crime, but FBI figures provide
some measure of it.

[Burma Jones]

1. I am suprised it's only five

I know it seems insensitive of me, but I'm a parent and know that infants can be infuriating. Given the number of people in this country with real psychological problems, particularly with rage, I could see this number being much higher.

[Warpy]

3. Don't forget pospartum depression

I'm shocked it's so low, too. This must mean only five absolutely obvious cases are seen each week.

Postpartum depression is pretty much ignored in this country, where we pretend every woman who gets presented with an infant is in a constant state of delight. I know two women who had it and weren't taken seriously. One is disfigured from trying to burn herself to death. The other is dead.

Wake up, people! New moms need care, too!

[PopeyeII]

4. It takes two to make em, cause it takes two to take care of them.

A pox on irresponsible parents and absent dads.

My wife went through the postpartum hormonal roller coaster w/our first (but not our second). It was not bad but a sample of what people go through. Dads can be educated as part of the parenting educational process to watch out for these things.

[Burma Jones]

20. When our first child was born I was working and in Grad School

So after the first week I was gone for about 12 hours per day. This was not working out, so I delayed Grad School classes for six months. That improved things, but you really need two parents to keep things going well.

I was working out of the house when our second child was born and was always around. It made a big difference for everyone involved.

[PopeyeII]

21. My wife was in grad school w/our second.

OTOH I was second oldest in our house of six and had mega experience changing diapers, walking floors, etc.

That breast feeding part really hurt like hell. :o

[Burma Jones]

22. You need to shave around your nipples n/t

[slackmaster]

2. The perpetrators

The statistics indicate the gender and race of the victims, but provide no information on who committed the crimes, or what the motives were for the killings.

Here's a related statistic. Most young children who are murdered are killed by their own parents.

Of all children under age 5 murdered from 1976-2000 --

- 31% were killed by fathers
- 30% were killed by mothers
- 23% were killed by male acquaintances
- 7% were killed by other relatives
- 3% were killed by strangers

Source: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/children.htm

[Oggy]

5. Agreeing with new_beawr

It doesn't suprise me. My wife and I are very laid back and slow to anger, but after 6 months of on average 2 hours sleep in a row life gets very very hard.

Just so I don't put off any prospective parents, don't worry it started getting better and now we get up to 8 hours in a row ( if we go to bed at 8pm!)

[slackmaster]

6. Children are great for most of their lives

After age 3 or so they're a lot of fun, until they hit puberty with all the "joy" that brings. But they get over that too.

[TX-RAT]

10. But they get over that too?

When?
Mine turned 30 in may and I'm still not to sure she's over it.

Ahhhhh the joys of parenthood.

[slackmaster]

12. Well, at least they move out of your house

Usually.

:eyes:

[Oggy]

16. Cheers for that

Oh the joy they bring us..

[PopeyeII]

9. Sleep depervation, what a curse.

Those were the days. I use to fall asleep at my desk at work I was so exhausted. One day I woke after lunch to find that my co-workers had tied my shoes together. Another day they just turned my lights off and shut my door, I passed out for 4 hours.


Aghhhhh, flash back time.

[Oggy]

15. what gits

I am lucky in that I go back to sleep easily. My wife though......

Post Natal Depression and sleep deprivation. She has suggested the torture technique was thought up by vengeful parents.

[PopeyeII]

17. Maybe they're preparing us for when they're teens!

Staying up all night worrying.

[LibLabUK]

7. Hmm...

"We live in a sick society."

Strange thing to say...

Does society condone the killings?

[slackmaster]

11. Question about UK law for you

Is the Infanticide Act of 1938 still in effect? I believe that gives leniency to women who kill their children during the first year of life if they can provide evidence they were suffering from postpartum effects at the time of the killing.

http://www.police-law.co.uk/rainertech/policelaw.nsf/c3909bfc0fa17f3d80256db30073557e/6ea6eb103b28d3e180256baa004e25c5!OpenDocument

[LibLabUK]

13. I'm not sure, but...

http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts2003/30044-bh.htm

It would seem that the infanticide act is mentioned in the criminal justice act 2003.. so it's possible it is still in effect.

I would have thought that post-partum depression would be covered under mitigating circumstances, diminished capacity etc when it came to prosecutions.. and left for the court to decide on a case by case basis.

[iverglas]

14. the Criminal Code of Canada does

http://www.canlii.org/ca/sta/c-46/sec233.html

Criminal Code
PART VIII OFFENCES AGAINST THE PERSON AND REPUTATION
Murder, Manslaughter and Infanticide
Infanticide

233. A female person commits infanticide when by a wilful act or omission she causes the death of her newly-born child, if at the time of the act or omission she is not fully recovered from the effects of giving birth to the child and by reason thereof or of the effect of lactation consequent on the birth of the child her mind is then disturbed.

My Martin's Annotated Code cites only one case (from 1976) under the section, in which it was laid down that "the accused must not have fully recovered from the effects of giving birth" and "by reason of giving birth or of the effects of lactation her mind was then disturbed" (abridging) are essential elements of the offence, and without them this section applies:

Criminal Code
PART XX PROCEDURE IN JURY TRIALS AND GENERAL PROVISIONS
Verdicts
No acquittal unless act or omission not wilful

663. Where a female person is charged with infanticide and the evidence establishes that she caused the death of her child but does not establish that, at the time of the act or omission by which she caused the death of the child,

(a) she was not fully recovered from the effects of giving birth to the child or from the effect of lactation consequent on the birth of the child, and

(b) the balance of her mind was, at that time, disturbed by reason of the effect of giving birth to the child or of the effect of lactation consequent on the birth of the child,

she may be convicted unless the evidence establishes that the act or omission was not wilful.

No case is cited under that.

It's all very arcane, and obviously from a time when knowledge was limited but intentions sincere.

The problem is partly that post-partum depression and post-partum psychosis are different things, and psychosis, but not depression, will found a "not guilty by reason of mental disorder" defence.

[MrBenchley]

18. You know...

Some of this might be alleviated by better access to affordable health care in this country...and some by more rigorous supervision of home schoolers (several of the more widely publicized cases, such as Yates and the woman who stoned her kids to death in Texas, were women who were compelled to home school their children).

[JayS]

8. I am sure that the numbers include only the babies actually...

...found as it would be hard to estimate the number of those not found. (duh) If the baby is not strong enough to cry out then he/she will most likely have an undignified burial in a landfill.

The "Baby Moses Laws" (started by Bush *gasp*) are available in most states now so there is no excuse for dumping a baby like that.


The report is based on 1995 numbers, the most recent available, and shows 249 infants were killed that year.

The last I checked, the number of abandoned babies has dropped substantially so there is at least some good news.

[Liberal Classic]

19. If we're sick

Then China and India are chronically ill.