Bill for LEO nationwide CCW passes the Senate

[Romulus]

http://www.grandlodgefop.org/press/pr040707.html

"Chuck Canterbury, National President of the Grand Lodge, Fraternal Order of Police, hailed today's unanimous passage of H.R. 218, the "Law Enforcement Officers' Safety Act," in the United States Senate."

(snip)

"The legislation, sponsored by Representative Randy "Duke" Cunningham (R-Calif.), was passed by the House in June. It exempts qualified active and retired law enforcement officers from State and local prohibitions with respect to the carrying of concealed firearms. It had previously passed the House on a 372- 53 vote in 1999 and, in March of this year, passed the Senate on a 91-8 vote when it was offered as an amendment to another bill.

"Every time this legislation has been considered by the House or the Senate it has passed," Canterbury said. "And President Bush, who is a strong supporter of this legislation and was a tremendous help to us in getting this bill through the House last month, is eager to sign the bill."

The Senate passed H.R. 218 without amendment, so the measure will now go to the White House to be signed into law by President Bush. Once signed, active and retired law enforcement officers will be able to carry their firearms even when traveling outside their own jurisdictions."

(snip/more)

Edited to add:

Bill text
HR218: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c108:4:./temp/~c108sGn55e::

You can follow than link to get comments in the Congressional Record concerning the bill:

"The assistant legislative clerk read as follows:


A bill (H.R. 218) to amend title 18, United States Code, to exempt qualified current and former law enforcement officers from State laws prohibiting the carrying of concealed handguns.


There being no objection, the Senate proceeded to consider the bill."

[library_max]

1. More restrictions from those gun-grabbing Republicans, eh?

Oh, wait . . .

[FeebMaster]

2. We treat police better because they're better people.

Right, Mr. Hat? </Mr. Garrison>

[library_max]

3. Hey, nice excuse.

Entertainingly presented, too. Sure to get extra points with the RKBAers around here who despise police officers. Well done!

[TX-RAT]

4. RKBAers around here who despise police officers

Around here? Surely not.
Might as well paint a bullseye on my butt.

[FeebMaster]

5. Excuse?

What excuse? Excuse for what?

[CO Liberal]

6. I Would Trust a Cop or a Retired Cop....

...long before I'd trust any old yahoo with a gun.

[Zister]

21. Any Average Shooter is just as Proficient

lets not pretend that Police have some Jedi like skills over firearms that the rest of the law abiding public cant hope to ever attain. Dont get me wrong, I am pro the Police carrying Nation wide. Its just that any average civilian shooter is just as proficient.

[CO Liberal]

22. And Every Weekday, Here in the J/PS Forum....

...you can find stories in the "Guns in the News" threads where "average shooters" have blown away their fellow man, woman, and/or small child.

I refuse to recognize CCW as a universal "right". It need to be tightly controlled, IMHO.

[FatSlob]

25. Unfortunately for your position,

The more LIBERAL CCW law result in lower crime.

[CO Liberal]

26. And Unfortunately for YOUR Position....

...people are still getting shot and killed daily.

[FatSlob]

27. I hear the numbers are down, and the only people who have to worry...

...about CHL holders are criminals.

[CO Liberal]

28. Nope

We ALL have to worry, because since CHL holders are only human, there's no telling when one may slip up and accidentally kill someone.

[FatSlob]

29. Do you have any information as to the frequency ot such events?

It isn't happening. Of course, there may be isolated incidents, I'm not so silly as to deny the possibility. There is no way to argue that liberalized ccw laws have had a detrimental effect on the country. Basing opinions on the conjecture that something might happen, when years of data and hundreds of thousands (perhaps a million or more) licensees indicate the opposite is intellectually dishonest. Now, if one based his opinions on a philosophical reason, such as pacifism, and publicly stated it, then I would see intellectual honesty. My point is this: if you (not COLib in specific) have a philosophical or moral opposition to CCW or firearms, or self-defense or any violence whatsover, then use that as your basis, not conjecture.

[library_max]

30. Something MrBenchley posted on another thread:

(edit: my mistake, cut-and-paste DID preserve the links!)

"CHL holders simply don't commit violent crimes."
Unless you actually LOOK...at which point you discover they not only commit crimes, but do so at a rate HIGHER than the general population...

"From 1996 to 2000, Texas concealed handgun license holders were arrested for weapon-related offenses11 at a rate 81 percent higher than that of the general population of Texas, aged 21 and older. These weapon-related offenses include arrests for 279 assaults or aggravated assaults with a deadly weapon, 671 unlawfully carrying a weapon, and 172 deadly conduct/discharge firearm."

http://www.vpc.org/studies/ltk4intr.htm

"Texas concealed handgun license holders have been arrested for nearly two crimes a day since the law went into effect.
* Texas concealed handgun license holders have been arrested for more than one serious violent crime per month including: murder/attempted murder, kidnapping4, and rape or sexual assault since the law went into effect.
* Texas concealed handgun license holders have been arrested for one weapon-related offense every other day since the law went into effect.
* Family violence was identified in more than one in 20 incidents involving concealed handgun license holders."

http://www.vpc.org/studies/ltk2intr.htm

http://www.vpc.org/studies/ltk2inc.htm

http://www.vpc.org/studies/ltk3arr.htm

Hence the push from the gun lobby to keep this information hidden from the public in state after state.

[slackmaster]

31. Fundamental problem with all those VPC stats

Arrest rates are not valid measures of crime rates.

Crime rates are properly measured as either conviction rates or reported crimes. Arrests don't count.

[library_max]

32. How so?

What's the theory here, that the police in Texas just go around arresting people to drive the stats up?

[TX-RAT]

33. I'm afraid the answers yes.

[Romulus]

36. thank you for an honest reply

:evilgrin:

[TX-RAT]

38. Turn down squelch on your sarcasm detector

It will work better.

[Romulus]

39. that's what the evilgrin was for (n/t)

[TX-RAT]

40. Sorry, too much coffee, makes me jumpy.

[Romulus]

34. look at the "arrests" in DC during the protests

the police arrested 400+ people for being in the wrong place at the wrong time in one fell swoop. Not ONE of those people was found guilty of "disorderly conduct" by a court of law, and the charges were all eventually dropped.

People get arrested all the time for all kinds of things. And most of those people don't get convicted of squat.

[slackmaster]

35. Not everyone who gets arrested gets convicted or even indicted

:dunce:

Accurate conviction rate data is available for CHL holders in the state of Texas, and since that is so we can safely ignore the VPC's years-old arrest figures.

Please see http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/chlsindex.htm and click on the "Conviction Rates" link.

Texans with concealed weapons permits are more law-abiding than the population at large.

I await the chirping of crickets. Concealed weapons holders in Texas and everywhere else commit crimes but at substantially lower rates than people in general.

[slackmaster]

7. A small step in the right direction

Personally I think giving blanket immunity from state or local restrictions against carrying weapons to people who have been properly trained, and is not under the influence of alcohol or other drugs (safeguards that are included in this bill), is a good idea.

This new freedom for a select few could be the first step toward a comprehensive national concealed-carry permit. Although I don't care for the element of pandering that both Republicans and Democrats are guilty of indulging in, the fact that it restores freedom to at least some people is a worthwhile step.

I disagree with those who insist on only seeing the elist aspects. Compromise is always needed when laws are negotiated. This one takes us forward, not back.

[-..__...]

8. Bad move by the Senate.

Hopefully, the courts will apply the 14th amendment and rule against this legislation.

On the bright side: at least no assault weapons ban was amended to the CCW bill as had been speculated. :bounce:

[The_Camp_Ninja]

9. Great...

Now, how about national reciprocity for the rest of us CITIZENS with CCW's???

[Jack_DeLeon]

10. How long do you have to be a police officer before you retire?

I dont suppose I could join the local police force for a year and then retire to get the benefit of a nationwide conceal carry license?

[FeebMaster]

11. 15 years. (nt)

[Wickerman]

12. There ya go!

now that's some thinking! Proud to share the board with you! And in my small town we just laugh at the cops who joined up so they could drive fast legally. That's a new one.

:thumbsup:

[Jack_DeLeon]

13. Well I figure, you do your time, get your benefits...

Back before we had the war in Iraq people used to just sign up in the military to get the benefits. I'm sure there are some still althought alot less.

If the requierment was shorter I think it would be a good idea to join the police for a few years of duty and get this benfit.

Decent money, I'm interested in the law, a chance to do some good, and a national concealed carry license.

[TX-RAT]

14. Decent money?

Now that's funny.

[FatSlob]

15. Thirty bucks an hour here in cincy.

[gatlingforme]

16. that is pretty darn good , rank and file here get 17/hr start, with

increase around 4% if lucky every year. Sgt's make a little more, then go to Lt. and they make good money. Mid-level makes good money cmdr,mstr sgt., (and whatever rank is made up by sheriff for whatever favor needs fix'n.) LOL

[TX-RAT]

17. I'm impressed

Starting pay for deputy here is 23000.00 per year.

[op6203]

19. No doubt

That's about average here. One department starts around $18K plus state supplemental (total around $21K). The city next door pays a good bit better - but barely into the "decent" range IMO. I've been told the mayor said all city employees should be paid the same whether they're trained LEOs or garbage pickup. Surely he was drinking at the time.
OP

[mosin]

23. Sheesh

The local police here make close to $40K to start in most of the departments. The base salaries for patrol officers are in the mid to upper $45K-$50K range. First-years typically make 80% of that. That increases gradually until you reach base at 3 years. Beyond that, sargents, lieutenants, etc. make higher salaries.

Of course, none of this includes overtime, shift differentials, clothing allowance, etc.

Of course, it wouldn't be enough to get me to do the job. It's a tough job.

[Jack_DeLeon]

20. Better than what I make as a cashier.

[FatSlob]

18. A small step on the way to Nationwide CCW reciprocity.

YES!

[mosin]

24. I thing you're being overly optimistic.

I believe it only reinforces the notion that the police are "special" and deserving of greater protections.

And if you read the bill, it was passed under the "Commerce Clause" to benefit LEO's who are carrying firearms that passed in interstate commerce. This is as transparently unconstitutional as the "Gun Free School Zones" law that was declared unconstitutional and then re-enacted.

[FatSlob]

37. Under what clause of the CONUS could such measures be passed?

[mosin]

41. COTUS

Since you asked, I gave it some thought. I see only one reasonable justification for a LEO-only carry law. Article I, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution authorizes Congress in part

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress

Congress could reclassify state civilian law enforcement officers as a second tier of the "organized militia." The "organized militia" under 10 U.S.C. 311 currently consists of the "National Guard" and the "Naval Militia." Males between 17 and 45 form the balance of the "unorganized" militia.

As part of the militia, Congress could constitutionally "organize," "arm," and "govern" the LEO-militia.

Congress could constitutionally pass a universal carry law as a measure to enforce the Second and Fourteenth Amendments, but that wouldn't justify an LEO-only carry law.