GUNS IN THE NEWS - July 10-12, 2004

[CO Liberal]

Please try to adhere to the following voluntary guidelines, in order that we can have an orderly discussion of gun-related news topics:

1 - Feel free to add any CURRENT stories to this thread by replying to this message. In order to be considered current, stories should have been originally posted on the Internet within the previous 24 hours, or provide follow-up to a story that was previously posted on the J/PS board. EXCEPTION: On Mondays (since many people do not log in to DU over the weekend), stories can be posted from Saturday, Sunday, or Monday.

2 - Both pro-gun and anti-gun stories, editorials, and press releases are welcome in this thread, as long as they're current. Please do not post links to items from a few years back that support your position.

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5 - Do not change story titles. In other words, if the Oshkosh Gazette's web site runs a story titled "Two Killed in Holdup", the title of your message should read "Two Killed in Holdup". Don't change it to "Gun Owner Kills Two People", or anything else that changes the meaning of the story.

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"He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot but don't let that

[MrBenchley]

1. Police target illegal gun sales (LA)

As our enthusiasts keep reminding us, more and more women are buying guns...

"One day in 2003, Nicholas Plateo of Metairie was robbed while trying to score heroin. To him, the solution seemed simple: Get a gun.
Plateo was younger than 21, too young to legally buy a firearm, so he turned to his girlfriend, Jessica Duplantis, 24, and the pair drove to Elliot's Small Arms on Jefferson Highway in Jefferson Parish. She bought a handgun for him.
Less than a month later, the gun showed up in the hands of Dwayne Lee, a convicted felon, who pointed it at two police offers. They confiscated the weapon and, in an increasingly frequent move, had it traced.
Regardless of who does the buying, virtually every crime gun starts off as a legal firearm, and the vast majority of crime guns are bought legally, according to a 2000 report by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. But most guns change hands one or more times before being used in a crime, and Duplantis was caught in a renewed local effort to crack down on so-called "straw sales" of firearms: arrangements in which people who can legally buy guns pass the weapons on to those who cannot, including convicted felons -- for whom it is a crime to possess a gun, let alone buy one -- and minors.
Less clear is whether straw purchases are usually carried out by organized gun-trafficking rings or by individuals like Duplantis, who are buying for relatives, friends or boyfriends. Locally, though, several recent prosecutions of alleged straw purchasers involve women. "

http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/index.ssf?/base/news-1/1089619119181520.xml

[MrBenchley]

2. One person killed, eight injured in LA-area shooting

"LOS ANGELES - One person was killed and eight injured in a shooting outside a home, police said.
A 12-year-old boy had a gunshot wound in the arm and was in satisfactory condition, police said.
The shooting was the result of an ongoing dispute between two families who got into a fight at about 8:05 p.m. in the Lakeview Terrace neighborhood, located north of downtown Los Angeles, police said. One family member had a gun and opened fire.
"This is an issue between two families who live on the same street who don't like each other," police Capt. Kirk Albansee told KABC-TV."

http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/montereyherald/9133958.htm

Guess they believed the RKBA horsecrap about how "no one can rely on the cops" and "you need a gun."

[MrBenchley]

3. Cops: Teen, 17, kills 1, then self (NY)

"A desperate teenage gunman who had just fatally shot a man in Queens fled from law enforcement officers yesterday before putting the weapon to his head and killing himself, officials said.
Police cornered the gunman about 6:15 p.m. in a shared parking lot of 63-89 Saunders St. in Rego Park. The 17-year-old shot himself in the head with a .22-caliber handgun.
"He had blood all over his face," said Richie Schupke, 47, a handyman who lives in the area. "All you heard was a pop and then that was it."
The teenager, whom police did not immediately identify but said lived in the area, was pronounced dead at St. John's Hospital a short time later, police said.
It began about a few blocks away at 98-51 63rd Road near Queens Boulevard when the gunman shot an unidentified man in the chest, police said."

http://www.nynewsday.com/news/local/queens/nyc-nyperp113888299jul11,0,435909.story?coll=nyc-homepage-headlines

[slackmaster]

4. Man shoots intruder breaking into home (CA)

A stranger trying to break into your home at 1:52 AM is surely a threat to your safety whatever his reasons for choosing your home. Here in California it's unlikely that the homeowner will face any criminal charges for his defensive use of a gun, unless the state can establish some kind of personal connection between him and the shootee.

PACIFIC BEACH – A man who was at home with his wife and young child shot an intruder trying to break in early yesterday, police said.

The man was trying to get in through the front door of the home on Hornblend Street near the Mission Bay Golf Course about 1:52 a.m. The resident shot at the man, hitting him once in the ankle. The intruder ran away, but police soon found him.

They took the man to a hospital and then to the county jail....

For full copyrighted article please see http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20040712-9999-1m12crime.html

[CO Liberal]

7. Finally - ONE Defensive Gun Use Story!!!

Compared to HOW many offensive uses?????

:shrug:

[Salmo Trutta]

8. They're all offensive gun uses

as in the use of a gun against another human being offends me.

[slackmaster]

12. Guns are used for both good and evil purposes

as in the use of a gun against another human being offends me.

If you can suggest a practical way to make guns unnecessary I'd like to see it.

[FatSlob]

45. Are you serious?

What would you have the man do? Wait for the intruder to slaughter him and his family?

[MrBenchley]

9. Right on the same page...

" A man shoplifting baby formula pulled a gun on a security guard who tried to stop him Saturday afternoon.
The robber grabbed three cans of formula off the shelf of a Rite Aid on El Cajon Boulevard and headed for the door. When a security guard stopped him, he pointed a gun at the guard's head. "

[Salmo Trutta]

10. Another spokesperson for concealed carry...

great.

"Honey, don't forget you wallet when you get that formula!"

"Nah, don't need it, I have an 'alternative" form of payment!"

[slackmaster]

13. The GITN threads are often inaccessible to many of us

Our choice for sure, but the count of good vs. bad gun uses one could make based on these threads means nothing.

[CO Liberal]

19. When You Consider...

...the number of offensive gun use stories versus defensive stories you can find through a Google search, it shows that defensive uses are much less common than the offensive ones.

[Romulus]

20. Where's Lunabush?

with his statistics award:

the number of offensive gun use stories versus defensive stories you can find through a Google search

That seems to be all that the GITN thread does - measure the number of internet stories about firearms that are found on Google; nothing more, nothing less. Any other conclusions that are drawn from GITN are invalid.

(edited to clarify the Google/GITN connection and fix a typo)

[CO Liberal]

21. I'm Not Going By The GITN Threads

I'm going by the stories I find on Google when I look for stories for the GITN threads. Defensive use stories are a scarce as hens' teeth.

[slackmaster]

23. Appeal To Google Fallacy

N/T

[slackmaster]

22. It proves no such thing

Offensive gun uses are ALWAYS criminal activity and sometimes involve injury of death of innocent people, therefore they are far more likely to be reported than defensive uses where nobody gets hurt.

The actual number of DGUs may be unknowable.

[TX-RAT]

25. The actual number of DGUs may be unknowable?

Why is that?
Are you suggesting that DGUs don't report the incidents to LE. Are you saying it's enough of an offense to pull a weapon and defend ones self, but not enough to report?

[CO Liberal]

26. Becauase They Don't Have Numbers To Back Them Up...

...they have to resort to the lame excuse that they're unreported.

[slackmaster]

28. What's so lame about it?

If no crime is committed, where would official information about an incident be stored and for what purpose?

I know how the San Diego PD handles incidents where someone uses a weapon to scare off a prowler - Unless there is physical evidence to check out they're unlikely to come to the scene or file any kind of report. They'll respond to actual shootings every time, but if there is no suspect to arrest and no property damage and no injured party they really can't and won't do anything.

[TX-RAT]

36. If thats the case, somebody's not doing their job.

If it's enough of a threat for you to pull a weapon, then its enough of a crime for them to file an incident report.
I'm unfamiliar with the San Diego PD, but that sounds very strange to me.

[slackmaster]

39. SDPD is stretched very thin

Just as an example, they absolutely will not go to the scene of any motor vehicle collision unless you report an injury. There's no such thing as a police report for a fender-bender accident here unless it involves a police vehicle. :D

If there's no injury but a vehicle that can't leave the scene under its own power they'll send a private tow truck, but no police.

Pulling a gun on someone on your own property is not a crime if you can show that you reasonably feared for your safety, and if the person on whom you pulled a gun hasn't actually done anything heavier than trespassing there is zero chance the police will do more than take a verbal report over the phone. Our local newspaper does not report on criminal activity unless shots are fired, things are stolen, etc.

[TX-RAT]

41. absolutely will not go to the scene of any motor vehicle collision

That one i was aware of, and i find it very surprising. A civilian investigator is some times used.

My brother retired from the Marshall's office there. He was the one who arrested your Mayor. Remember Roger Hedgecock.

[slackmaster]

43. Roger the dodger Hedgecock

The DP Manager of the bank I worked for back in the '80s served as the foreman of the jury that convicted Hedgecock of about 10 felony counts, all later overturned on appeal.

He's on the radio every day here and sometimes fills in for Rush Limbaugh.

:puke:

[slackmaster]

27. Pulling a weapon out in self-defense may or may NOT be an offense

It depends on where you are and why you do it.

Are you saying it's enough of an offense to pull a weapon and defend ones self, but not enough to report?

If no crime has been committed, what kind of report would police make of an incident where someone uses a gun to chase off a wannabe intruder; an uninvited visitor who came onto your property without permission (not technically trespassing) and attempted to break in to a building (no shots fired)?

I believe many LEO agencies have no category in which to file that kind of information.

[TX-RAT]

34. It's called an incident report.

(an incident where someone uses a gun to chase off a wannabe intruder; an uninvited visitor who came onto your property without permission (not technically trespassing) and attempted to break in to a building (no shots fired)?)
All of the above should be reported, with a description of the suspect. A word to the wise, if you pull a gun, report it.

[slackmaster]

35. How manyh police IRs get reported in newspapers?

:shrug:

A word to the wise, if you pull a gun, report it.

I agree.

[TX-RAT]

37. They all get reported here.

Cows on the highway, attempted burglary, telephone harassment,prowlers, trespassing. But this is small town West TX, we get pretty bored. Just because it's not printed in the paper doesn't mean its not reported.

[slackmaster]

40. Must be nice living in a place like that

I'll bet you don't have much in the way of rush-hour traffic either.

:argh:

[TX-RAT]

42. I remember when San Diego didn't either.

But that was a long time ago.

[MrBenchley]

29. Wouldn't a law abiding gun owner

report an attempted robbery or assault?

[CO Liberal]

31. You Would Think So

Unless it only happened in their mind.....

[slackmaster]

32. Where would the police in YOUR town file a report of an "attempted" crime

When no police officer witnessed the event and the bad guy got away without leaving any physical evidence behind?

[CO Liberal]

33. Under "Imaginary Incidents"????

Like so many things used by pro-gunners to defend their position????

:shrug:

[TX-RAT]

38. "attempted" crime"?

attempted rape
attempted burglary
attempted theft
I believe they are still crimes whether they succeeded or not.
Trespassing is hard to enforce. Not familiar with CA trespassing laws.

[MrBenchley]

44. Seems awfully irresponsible

gun owners not reporting these crimes....doesn't it?

Of course, making a false police report is also a crime...whereas lying on the internet about how many desperate criminals you scared away with your popgun is not.

[MrBenchley]

5. Fundraiser For Shooting Victim (Neb.)

"Friends and family members gathered Sunday to show support and raise money for an Omaha man recovering from a gunshot wound to the head.
The benefit for 24-year-old Raul Shaw at the South Omaha Eagles Club at 23rd and N featured food, music, and raffles.
Shaw lost an eye when he was shot last month and will need reconstructive surgery to his skull. He's facing thousands of dollars in medical bills. "It's hard to go through this. You know what I'm saying? They go through a lot. Just saying prayers and doing what they do. It's just a lot. I'm going to tell them that when a lot more people show up. I'll get up on the stage and tell them I really appreciate it.""

http://www.wowt.com/news/headlines/875221.html

[MrBenchley]

6. MPD Investigates Shooting (MS)

"A five-year-old boy was shot and had to be transported to the hospital Saturday evening.
The Meridian Police Department responded to the call.
"The child was struck in the leg, taken to a local hospital where he is receiving care and he's in very good condition," said Lt. Wade Johnson of the Meridian Police Department. "Right now, the shooting is still under investigation."
Johnson said it appears that the shooting might have been accidental."

http://www.wtok.com/news/headlines/875031.html

[MrBenchley]

11. Police Probe Bizarre Shooting On U.S. 36 (CO)

"Francis "Frank" Santos of Denver, 37, was driving on Hwy. 36 towards Boulder when he was shot in the head and killed. His car spun out of control and crashed into the median barrier, near the McCaslin Boulevard interchange.
Investigators don't know if the shooter knew the victim or if it was completely random. They don't know if the driver was a victim of road rage, or if the suspect followed the man on to the highway, or if the killing was the result of a sniper.
"It's just kind of peculiar circumstances," said Lt. Phil West with the Boulder County Sheriff's Department.
"When the paramedics arrived, they knew the driver had been shot and was dead because of gunshot wound to the head," West said."

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/3519838/detail.html

[Romulus]

14. Burgler Met with Gunshots (MN)

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/local/9121480.htm


A homeowner in Lauderdale shot and wounded a suspected burglar he surprised Friday afternoon as the bandit was leaving the home with a gun in his hand, police said.

The burglar apparently had taken the gun from the home and pointed it at the homeowner when the confrontation began, according to St. Anthony Police Capt. John Ohl.

The homeowner, whose name was not released, pulled another gun and fired several shots. At least two of them struck the other man, Ohl said.

The suspected burglar underwent surgery at Regions Hospital, and his condition was not available.

[Romulus]

15. Burglar Killed By Store Owner (TX)

http://www.dfw.com/mld/startelegram/news/local/9130157.htm

FORT WORTH - The convenience store was dark when owner Antonio Cuauhtli unlocked the door about 4:30 a.m. Saturday.

He spotted the burglar about the same time the burglar saw him.

When it was all over, the Fort Worth businessman had fatally shot a man who apparently broke into his southeast Fort Worth store.

*snip*

No charges have been filed, and the dead man's identity is being withheld pending notification of next of kin, said Lt. Abdul Pridgen, a Fort Worth police spokesman.

[Romulus]

16. Shootout in Pizza Parlor (CT)

http://www.wfsb.com/Global/story.asp?S=2025221

John Skouloudis has been carrying a gun everyday for the seventeen years he's owned Campus Pizza in an area know as Frog Hollow in Hartford.

Until today he never fired his gun. According to him, a would be robber came in and pointing a firearm.

Skouloudis ducked behind the counter and heard two shots fired. He pulled out his own gun and fired two shots in return.

[Salmo Trutta]

17. Why didn't they take it out into the streets

at high noon like a couple of respectable desperados?

[NorthernSpy]

55. thanx, Rom

For finding all these examples of DGU & posting them.

Nice job!

:)


Mary

[MrBenchley]

18. Officials question suspect's mentality (MI)

"Authorities want the man who is suspected of firing a shotgun multiple times at other vehicles while driving on U.S. 127 Tuesday night to see a psychiatrist.
An East Lansing motorist was shot at in his vehicle near the Trowbridge Road exit off U.S. 127 and a Durand motorist was hit in the hand while driving near the Lake Lansing Road exit in Lansing Township.
Citing statements made by Daniel Lynn Freshney in court and to police, along with the lack of motive in the crime, both Ingham County Chief Prosecutor Stuart Dunnings III and East Lansing police Capt. Juli Liebler said Thursday the 38-year-old Lansing man should be mentally assessed before standing trial.
"The statements he made I think are going to result in him having to go to the forensic center for psychiatric evaluation," Dunnings said."

http://www.statenews.com/article.phtml?pk=24645

[MrBenchley]

24. Police: Armed robber strikes pizza place (PA)

"KISKI TOWNSHIP — Someone wearing a ski mask robbed Vocelli Pizza early Saturday by pointing a gun at a shift manager moments after the pizzeria closed, state police in East Franklin Township said.
The robbery happened just after 1:30 a.m. along River Road in Kiski Township, police said.
The manager gave the robber an undetermined amount of money and the robber fled. No further suspect description or possible motive was available from state police Tpr. Joseph Murphy. "

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/leadertimes/s_202977.html

[MrBenchley]

30. Officer Shot During Chase (OH)

"olice say an officer has been shot by a man with an assault rifle who fired at police during a chase that began on a highway and ended in a Columbus neighborhood. Sergeant Brent Mall says the officer was wounded last night after the man crashed into a parked car, but kept firing. He says officers then shot the unidentified man. Mull says a woman inside her home was shot in neck as the man fired at houses and parked cars."

http://www.fox19.com/Global/story.asp?S=2025893

[MrBenchley]

53. Gunshot kills twin of slaying victim (MA)

"SPRINGFIELD - A 19-year-old man whose twin brother was shot to death in May was himself fatally shot over the weekend.
Now the twins' grief-stricken mother is asking youths in her community to break a silence she says is turning the streets into a "wild, wild west."
Daylan Shepard, 19, died early yesterday morning from a gunshot wound received while walking in the vicinity of Wilbraham Road and Beverly Street Saturday night.
Hours after his death a hoarse-voiced Sheila Shepard, mother of the slain twins, ripped into the code of silence she says allows thugs to rule the streets. In May, Daylan's twin, Darnell, was shot to death at a birthday party in an upstairs function room at the Cornerstone Lounge on Page Boulevard. "

http://www.masslive.com/chicopeeholyoke/republican/index.ssf?/base/news-1/1089618358315230.xml

[NorthernSpy]

56. odd

From the article: Police said the injury at first was not thought to be life-threatening, but they were notified of his death by Baystate Medical Center around 2:20 a.m. yesterday.


I really wonder whether the hospital treated this guy appropriately. Same with the woman who was shot recently in ME: she had a GSW to one leg, and lived for a couple of days before finally dying in the hospital. If a person has received proper medical care, why would s/he die many hours or days later of the supposedly not-too-serious wound?


Mary

[CO Liberal]

57. And She'd Probably Still Be Alive...

...if she had never been shot in the first place.

[Romulus]

59. unless she was stabbed with an assault filet knife (n/t)

[MrBenchley]

46. Weekend Shooting Leaves One Dead (UT)

"A 32 year old man was shot to death as he left a downtown bar, located at 49 E. 900 South, at around two Sunday morning.
Investigators say there were a lot of people in the parking lot when three shots were fired. But detectives still do not have a suspect. "

http://tv.ksl.com/index.php?nid=5&sid=105896

[MrBenchley]

47. Two arraigned in fatal shooting

" A man who was charged with murder in connection with a Saturday morning fatal shooting was arraigned today and ordered held without bail.
Michael Hernandez, 20, of 90 Walnut St. is due in court tomorrow afternoon. Police have charged Hernandez with second-degree murder in the death of Torrance Thompson, 36, of East Rochester.
A second man, who told police he is Hernandez's cousin, also has been arrested for attempted first-degree assault and reckless endangerment. Thomas Beasock, 22, of 81 Ringle St. was ordered held in lieu of $2,500 bail.
According to police, Thompson was shot at about 3:44 a.m. Saturday on Smith Street.
Police said they believe Hernandez had been shot earlier in the evening and had retaliated, but that Thompson was the wrong man."

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/news/0712TS4SJJS_news.shtml

[MrBenchley]

48. Fatal Shooting in Orange Park (FL)

"On Friday, July 9th at 7:40 pm CCSO deputies responded to a home at 467 Tara Lane in Orange Park. The resident, 53-year-old Lynda Rector, informed officers that a man was injured in her home.
54-year-old Danny Norman, an Orange Park resident who worked as a computer analyst, was found shot in the head and chest inside the home. Norman was taken to Orange Park Medical Center by ambulance and then flown by helicopter to Shands Hospital in Jacksonville where he later died.
CCSO Major Crimes Unit Investigators questioned and released Lynda Rector the night of the shooting. Investigators believe Rector and Norman dated in the past and that an altercation of some sort may have led to the shooting. "

http://www.wtev.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=509E2D6D-986E-429A-9042-14261FB30F98

[MrBenchley]

49. Carson City man accused of firing assault rifle near children

"A Carson City man has been arrested on suspicion of firing a Russian-made SKS assault rifle near children at a swimming pool.
Manual Vargas-Rangel is accused of firing two shots into the air Saturday from the second-story balcony of his Menlo Drive apartment complex. Sheriff's deputies say several children and adults were in a pool below at the time but no injuries were reported.
Vargas-Rangel had put away the rifle and was leaving the area when he was arrested. "

http://www.krnv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2025228&nav=8faOOfpb

[FeebMaster]

50. Oh look, SKS assault rifles again.

How is it that an SKS can be considered an assault rifle again? I'm not sure anyone ever bothered trying to come up with an explanation in that other thread.

[MrBenchley]

51. Yup....

Guess everybody in the world but Feeb thinks an SKS is an assault rifle...

[FeebMaster]

52. Hardly.

The only people peddling that crap are a few reporters, police chiefs, and gun grabbers. The SKS isn't even considered an assault weapon under the expanded AWBs the gun grabbers are peddling unless it has a detachable magazine, which most of them don't.

Explain to me how a semi-automatic rifle with a fixed magazine, like an SKS or a Garand, can possibly be considered an assault rifle.

[Zister]

58. Its just dramatics

The SKS does not even come close to meeting the criteria of being classified as a Assault Rifle. I even saw a article that said the SKS was modeled after the AK47. Geeesh, the SKS was designed and put into action a decade before the AK was even thought of. People just love to use the term Assault or Tactical or Terrorist grade in their descriptions to 'juice' it up. In the same article they describe the 7.62mm round like its a baby nuke. I mean its average at best as compared to other 30cal and up rifle rounds.

[MrBenchley]

54. MSU tackle shot dead after dispute over minor accident

"Dallas-AP -- Police say a Midwestern State University football player was shot to death early Sunday after a dispute over a minor traffic accident.
Michael Erokwu, an offensive tackle at M-S-U, died after an argument at a north Dallas service station.
The disagreement involved damage to a Chevrolet Impala struck by Erokwu's car as it left a nearby nightclub."

http://www.team4news.com/Global/story.asp?S=2025117