A public apology to the NRA.

[Renew Deal]

And it's here at DU. Check it out...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1974173&mesg_id=1974173

[Union Thug]

1. I am a collector of soviet small arms...

...and I hate the NRA. They are a tool for the republican party. They regularly run articles that put conservanazis on pedastals while taking cheap shots at the "left".

Fuck the NRA. Their advertising claims that they are non-partison, but even a cursory glance at the American Rifleman tells a different story. Have alook inside the latest edition and watch for that huge color page of RAYgun worshipping.

I collect guns, I support our right to bear arms, but the NRA can kiss my hairy ass.

[Carni]

2. Frankly I agree with him for the most part

First of all, I am not a "gun person" have never owned a gun and have always been pretty "anti-gun" (and yes, even anti-hunting in the past)

Now, after seeing what went down in 2000 and what bush co has pulled for 3.25 years?

The gun nuts IMO have some valid points.

Flame away people, because I don't really care--IMO the gun issue is one of the reasons we have this POS in the Whitehouse and from where I am sitting it's not worth it to me.

I would take a state sanctioned uzi in every household over the bush reich.

ON EDIT: I am not into the NRA just more pro-gun than I used to be!

[Union Thug]

3. but there should be no apologies to the NRA

You can be a gun enthusiast and despise the NRA. The NRA is as committed to the republican party as they are to the second amendment.

Lefties and liberals need to start their own gun owner's association. Do NOT send money to the NRA whack-jobs!

[Carni]

5. Yes I agree

I forgot about the whole NRA thing when I posted and was just thinking about the gun issue in general--but I agree totally!
The NRA itself sucks.

[-..__...]

7. You need to lurk and/or post here more often.

Otherwise you'd know that Democrats/Liberals couldn't possibly own firearms or have a pro-RKBA opinion.

Did you know that gun owners by default are "racist humholes" who are in league with John Ashcroft, Tom DeLay, Ted Nugent and Mary Rosh?

I'd advise you to take notes... there'll be a quiz afterwards. :D

[Renew Deal]

8. lol

My understanding is that this is the only forum where freeping is allowed.

[FeebMaster]

9. Well with all the gun control the Republicans

have passed, the gun grabbers really have no choice but to support them. We try to tolerate it. It's hard sometimes.

[-..__...]

10. No, there are others.

It's just that in this one the accusers and witch hunters have their own definition of proper "Democratic/Liberal" behavior/ideology with regards to firearms. Bush, Ashcroft, Nugent, Skinheads have nothing to do with it.

:shrug:

[MrBenchley]

15. That IS hilarious

"Bush, Ashcroft, Nugent, Skinheads have nothing to do with it"
Yeah, surrrrrrrrrrrre.....

[-..__...]

40. Are you surrrrrrrrrre about that?

Trick question...

[MrBenchley]

13. Got that right...

open attacks on Democrats and posting of horseshit from places like Newsmax is encouraged...and Koresh help you if you actually have a liberal opinion...

[NorthernSpy]

11. yes!

Lefties and liberals need to start their own gun owner's association. Do NOT send money to the NRA whack-jobs!


Absolutely! A progressive pro-rkba association is a great idea.

Seems to me that the gun control movement in this country peaked a while ago. The time when they could count on a supportive consensus from the left* is pretty much over. I suspect that even pro-control's true believers have sensed that they've lost momentum and now face significant rollback of previously won victories.


Mary


*using the term 'left' very broadly here -- gun control arguably had more appeal for the urban liberal and 'mushy middle'/DLC factions than for the true left.

[MrBenchley]

14. Wow!

How about starting by countering some of the ditto-monkey rubbish that infests every gun nut forum on the web?

Oh, I forgot...there's nothing but thousands of excuses why THAT can't be done.

[Renew Deal]

4. State sanctioned Uzi?

lol

[Carni]

6. If I explained myself...

I would be arrested lol
(it's been a LONG 3 years!)

[OpSomBlood]

12. I love the NRA's gun safety programs and hate their politics.

I'm a Democrat and I consider myself "liberal" on almost every issue. But I also think the Second Amendment applies to individuals and I refuse to blame pieces of machined metal for crime.

[Salmo Trutta]

16. What's next, apologizing to the KKK?

How about the NSDAP?

I'm sure there are some skinheads in you neck of the woods you can apologize to, also.

[Renew Deal]

17. It's not me apologizing.

That said, have you actually read what the person is saying? What does the KKK have to do with this?

[Salmo Trutta]

18. Racists comprise the bulk of both organizations...

[Renew Deal]

19. There are racists here

and everywhere. That's not the point. Did you even bother reading what the original poster said.

[Salmo Trutta]

20. I sure did...

I also noticed it characterized as an apology to the NRA

Therefore my question: what's next, an apology to <another racist organization>?

[mosin]

21. As a lifelong member...

of the NRA and an African-American, I find your statement offensive.

I haven't sent the NRA money in years, but I'm not about to resign my life membership because they are supporting pro-RKBA candidates. It's not their fault that by-and-large, national Democratic candidates do not have good records on the RKBA. The NRA supports pro-gun candidates, regardless of party. Period. End of story.

[MrBenchley]

22. Want a bullet to bite on?

Gee, so few non-racist groups have openly racist board members like Ted Nugent and Jeff Cooper...or put every civil rights organization around on an "enemies list."

[Salmo Trutta]

23. And I find you taking offense at my statement offensive

Ask me next if I give a shit...

The sooner the NRA is painted for what it is, a racist bunch of assholes led by an inbred yokel and a braindead has-been actor, the sooner people will sever their relationships with the organization.

[MrBenchley]

24. You'll notice none of our "pro gun democrats"

seem outraged that the NRA was openly gay-bashing at its convention in 2002...

http://www.planetout.com/news/article-print.html?2002/04/29/2

For some mysterious reason, even the "Pink Pistols" seem to wink at that....

[Salmo Trutta]

25. I will notice that our "pro-gun Democrats"

are quick to bash a respected Democrat, and are very slow to offer praise (if that praise is EVER forthcoming).

They are quick to point out the scores of gun shows they've been to, but cannot recall the last Democratic party event they've attended...

[MrBenchley]

26. On the other hand

they can't wait to stick up for folks like David Koresh and Randy Weaver...by reciting the same tired right wing talking points that every dittomonkey on the web has drummed into them.

[Salmo Trutta]

29. And I wonder why that is?

Could it be.....Satan?

[MrBenchley]

32. LOL!

[FeebMaster]

27. Hey you're pretty good at this for a beginner.

I'd like to point out to you, as I have others, that "pro-gun Democrat" would really look better and make more sense given what you seem to be attempting to imply as pro-gun "Democrat."

[Salmo Trutta]

30. Thanks...long time listener, first time caller

and all that.

[mosin]

28. Name-calling

All you apparently have to offer is name-calling. Goodbye.

You'll find you have one kindred spirit in this forum.

[Salmo Trutta]

31. Yes, Nugent is a inbred yokel and Heston is a

braindead has-been actor. You want to refute that?

[neverborn]

33. Nugent and Heston have no impact on my view of the RKBA

I'm sorry if they impact yours. That's sad.

[MrBenchley]

34. Gee, why not?

It certainly seems amazingly short-sighted (not to mention intellectually dishonest) to embrace a viewpoint and an argument without considering WHERE ti came from, who else is pushing it, and whether it's true or not.

And in the RKBA case, the argument was cynically conceived as a stalking horse for far right wing extremism.

"Guns entered national politics in the 1970s. What is called the gun rights movement sprang into motion against a waning civil rights movement and a growing push for women's rights. One organizer of gun rights from the early '70s put it bluntly when I interviewed him. Conservatives were taking a beating. Something was needed to "reverse the flow in the pipes" of the civil rights movement. The social movements based on the rights of women and minorities had bolstered the Democratic Party. Conservatives who had fought against the gains of civil rights and the Equal Rights Amendment needed to counter. Enter the gun.
And when the gun spoke, it championed the cause of conservative and libertarian America. A proxy politics, the gun rights movement is a potent reaction to the social and political agendas of what is perceived as "liberal America." It takes aim at a range of social solutions for crime, international conflict and personal security. In America, the gun has become a litmus test for political beliefs.
The beginnings of this movement were quiet. In the early '70s, the Young Americans for Freedom, a conservative political organization, started the Student's Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. From it sprang the Second Amendment Foundation and then Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. In those groups a righteous cause and a political vision was born. Guns began their career as key props in a changing political theater.
Within two years, the Gun Owners of America organization appeared with its leadership roots in the John Birch Society. Thirty years later, the group remains true to its mission, a watchdog group making sure the gun rights movement stays on course, fulfilling its reactionary conservative mandate. "

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/176458_focus06.html

The national figures pushing the RKBA cause are some of the worst in American political life. See the membership of the disgraceful Second Amendment Caucus.

And of course, the fundamental thesis, that the Second Amendment confers an individual right, is demonstrably false.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=49341

[Salmo Trutta]

35. LOL! That's gotta be a joke, right?

The fact that the rank and file of the NRA vote to elect racists as their "best foot forward" and representation does not impact your view of that organization?

Ummmm...ok...

[library_max]

39. Wait, Salmo, he said RKBA, not NRA.

It is reasonable to separate Nugent, et al, from one's opinions about RKBA. Not about the NRA, because they're at the top of it.

[neverborn]

41. Thank you. Fuck the NRA.

I respect the RKBA and can still say fuck the NRA as the racist organization it is.

[John BigBootay]

42. You're not going to get very far with that

type of reasoning.

Your reaction to the NRA is strictly emotional, not logical.

I, too, am an NRA member. I joined SPECIFICALLY because it supports the 2nd ammendment and pro-2nd candidates.

There is NO disconnect between otherwise liberal / tolerant politics and the 2nd Ammendment. That is a distinction that SOME politicians have manufactured. Their motive is to further inflame malleable voters.

[MrBenchley]

43. Tee hee hee....

"There is NO disconnect between otherwise liberal / tolerant politics and the 2nd Ammendment."
Aboslutely true. The disconnect is between the liberal/tolerant view and the outright lie by conservatives that the Second confers any individual right to tote a popgun around.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=49341

You will notice that despite that lie, when gun nuts go near a courtroom they rarely sue on Second Amendment grounds...and when they do they're generally laughed out of court...

http://www.trivalleyherald.com/Stories/0,1413,86~10671~2257292,00.html

[library_max]

36. Well, it's not exactly DU - it's JPS.

The rules and norms are different down here. If it's pro-gun, it's A-OK with our RKBAers, no matter how Republican it is. Priorities, ya know.

[FeebMaster]

37. Yeah, down here

the gun grabbers are always eager to give John Ashcroft more power and happily support any gun control the Republicans pass. Why, it wasn't so long ago they were even pimping for John McCain as the Democratic VP.

[library_max]

38. Adding this nonsense to my Selective Ignore function.

Love that Selective Ignore function!

:loveya:

[Renew Deal]

44. Republicans passing gun legislation?

What are you talking about?

[FeebMaster]

45. Well, you've got

Reagan banning new machine guns for civilians in '86.
Bush banning a bunch of assault weapon imports in '89.

Bush banned all of NORINCO's imports in '03. That one wasn't just guns.

And of course there's the AWB, which may or may not be renewed. If it is renewed Bush will have to sign it and as far as I'm concerned, that makes it his.

[Renew Deal]

46. I just checked out Norinco.

You know why he banned them? I bet I know. It's that they are a chinese firearm manufacturer. He is protecting is protecting his buddies as usual.

Anyway, I hope they ban machine guns. We don't need that on the streets. Either that, or let everyone buy anythin they want. Start selling SAM missles and claymore mines.

[FeebMaster]

47. Well the alleged reason

was that NORINCO was selling missile parts to Iran or something. NORINCO imported a lot of stuff into the US though, not just guns. A lot of cheap stuff. We can't have Americans buying cheap goods from overseas when politically well connected people are selling more expensive versions of the same thing made right here in America.


I wouldn't worry about legal machine guns. There's only a couple hundred thousand legally in civilian hands and there won't be more. As for illegal ones, who knows how many are out there. They're almost certainly cheaper than their legal counterparts, though, since there's no effective way to stop anyone from producing more or smuggling more into the country.