Guns divide campaign. Kerry’s silence frustrates gun control advocates.

[-..__...]

Didn't sombody here say that the AWB is a "win win situation" for Kerry and the Dems?

Seems like JFK is wisely avoiding the issue (or maybe there's more important matters than stumping for a foolish and inefective law?)


"Gun-control advocates say that Sen. John Kerry’s presidential campaign is divided about how vocal the senator should be in calling for the assault-weapons ban to be renewed.

Kerry’s reluctance to mention the controversial issue on the campaign trail has agitated proponents of the ban, which is scheduled to expire

Kerry supports the ban, and, earlier this year, he changed his campaign schedule to vote for it to be extended. But some gun-control advocates say he has not done enough.

Asked if Kerry will highlight the issue in his campaign, Blaine Rummel, a spokesman for the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence said, “There is some shiftiness,” said.

Another gun-control advocate said the campaign is divided on the matter and pointed out that Kerry does not mention gun control measures in his speeches.

The “issues” section of Kerry’s campaign website lists 15 topics, ranging from healthcare to homeland security to rural America. Gun matters are not listed.

More...

[Romulus]

1. Is that a scummy gun owner?!?

Why, it must be one of those lunatic asswipe DINOs!!

Errr, wait, ummmmm . . ..

edited to add:

In his new book, My Life, Clinton wrote that the 1994 vote to ban assault weapons came at a high political price, costing many House Democrats their seats in Congress.

[MrSandman]

59. Looks like a First Rate weapon...n/t

[freetobegay]

2. Are you upset over the weapons ban on assault weapons?

[-..__...]

8. You betch'a!

[freetobegay]

36. All you have to do is listen

Kerry has spoke on the subject numerous times.

[MrBenchley]

3. It IS a win-win situation...

"The “issues” section of Kerry’s campaign website lists 15 topics, ranging from healthcare to homeland security to rural America. Gun matters are not listed."
No shit...who in this day and age but the lunatic fringe opposes gun control, really? Voters care more about real issues. But who is on the internet pretending that the most important issue in this election is that "Hanoi John" and the Democrats will take away their popguns?

(Here's who--the malignant gang of dittomonkeys that infest gun owner forums)

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=4832b2f427636419561ab284b5944681&threadid=94201

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=260451

[-..__...]

5. Nice strawman you just built yourself.

What do any of those forums have to do with anything posted here and why do you even care what's posted in gun owner forums.

[MrBenchley]

6. Nope...it's the actual sort of fuckwit

peddling this gun rights rubbish....

[FatSlob]

18. Somebody did a strawman?

Inconcievable!

[Bowline]

20. "Inconcievable!" I love that movie! n/t

[FatSlob]

23. One of my favorites!

[el_gato]

4. The gun control zealots won't be happy until they make us lose again

Makes me wonder whose side they are on

If Kerry starts going around talking about gun control
we will lose states that are ours right now.

Looks like he's pretty handy with a shotgun!

[MrBenchley]

7. Gee, gato....

I wonder about a guy posting on a Democratic progressive board who posted a link to a neoNazi group....

[el_gato]

10. same old tired smear tactics

You lost that arguement badly so GET OVER IT.

It just said that you were supporting the destruction
of families because they believe in the right to privacy.

[MrBenchley]

13. No smear, gato, just the cold hard fact

of what sort of playmates you've got.

[el_gato]

26. Smear away benchly, you've run out of everything else

[MrBenchley]

29. No smear at all....just pointing out you linked to neoNazis

and are now trying to spin it away.

[el_gato]

32. Bring up the link benchy, let everybody see the discussion

You were arguing that the federal government should be able
to bankrupt people for not telling them how many toilets
they have in their house.

The link was to an essay by Ron Paul that someone had posted.
I happened to agree with Paul that it is insane to
bankrupt people for standing up for their right to
privacy as is outlined in the constitution.

I myself am on the side of the people in this country.

[MrBenchley]

41. Gee, gato....it's the neoNazis at lewrockwell.com

you were trotting out....

"The link was to an essay by Ron Paul"
That would be far right wing fuckwit Ron Paul, who's opposed to pretty much everything liberal or moderate.In that case, he was trying to pretend that any effort to improve public housing by giving the Census Bureau a measure was tyranny. Nice playmates you've got.

[el_gato]

43. How funny

The issue was the federal government was seeking
to financially destroy people for not telling
some bureaucrat how many toilets they have in their home.

The funny thing is how you blow a big ass hole in your
own argument. You say the effort was involving public
housing but yet if this was about public housing the
government would already know how many toilets are
in each unit. ha ha ha

This is just too easy. Maybe you ought to go back
to talking about how much you hate gun owners.

[MrBenchley]

47. I don't find neoNazi propaganda funny, gato...

but evidently it's hunky dory with you. Telling.

[Romulus]

37. it's OK, Gato

I've posted a link to a neo-Nazi webpage to show that NeoNazis "are the sort of fuckwit that opposes" the PATRIOT ACT. :eyes:

[el_gato]

40. he he

thanks

[MrBenchley]

9. By the way....

"The bill itself is not controversial, Hamm and Hummel said, because even gun owners favor its extension. Sixty-four percent of gun-owning households and half of the NRA members polled were in favor of extending the ban, according to a recent poll conducted by the Annenberg Election Survey."

[-..__...]

12. Fine

Those people polled are entitled to their opinion (assuming the numbers are accurate). Should the opinion of the majority always take precedent over those in the minority?

[MrBenchley]

14. Hahahahahahaha...

Naw, let's let a few fuckwits with assault weapons shoot up the joint instead.

[-..__...]

16. Thank you for that well thought out...

and intelligent response (it was what I had expected).

[MrBenchley]

All the response your post deserved....

[-..__...]

31. And with that folks...

I think I'll sign off for the rest of the day. It's nice out and I'd like to take a stroll around the convention happenings and sights.

BTW... I've been invited to a gathering at the Park Plaza Hotel tonight to watch Kerrys acceptance speech.

There's a fairly good possibility that he might show up there afterwards.
(of course I'll probably have to leave my white hood, Doc Martins and "pry it from my cold dead hands" t-shirt at home).

If I get a chance to talk to Kerry, I'll be sure to mention your sentiments about guns and gun owners to him.

[el_gato]

35. Say hi to Kerry for me DS

[Bowline]

17. I never thought I'd live to see the day!

MrBenchley is citing the NRA to SUPPORT his position! This certainly is a sign of the end of time.

[MrBenchley]

24. Wow! Wish some people here could READ

Or is it a spelling deificency that makes you think the acronym for "Annenberg Election Survey" is "N" "R" "A" and not "A" "E" "S"?

[Crachet2004]

33. That only shows the GOP aren't the only ones who know how...

To manipulate polls. The Democrat Party is wisely de-emphasizing gun control. In another two or three elections, the entire argument will have gone the way of the Dodo.

What has been explained to you, at least one hundred thousand times on these boards, is that true assault weapons are ALREADY banned, as they are fully automatic. When you pull the trigger, the clip empties. Semi-auto, of course, is one trigger pull, one shot.

Further attempts at control are aimed at these semi-automatic weapons, which include many sporting rifles, as well as all the modified rifles on the AWB list-which, again, are not true assault weapons, as they have been reduced to semi-auto status. The whole thing is a dishonest attempt by gun control advocates to make people think assault weapons are a category that includes all semi-auto weapons, and thereby ban these as well. It isn't going to work.

The American People hate dishonesty, which is part of why only a few of them showed up at the 'Million Mom March' this year. Given this turnout, which happened in the here-and-now, and not in the gaseous nether-regions of pollsters, pundits and agents provocateur, I can only question your motives in pursuing an issue that can only result in further electoral defeats for the Democrat Party.

Sure, there are polls that show enormous support for gun control of all kinds, but when our candidates run on this issue, too often, they get their guts kicked out at the only poll that counts...the kind where the American People cast their ballots.

Your poll numbers do not bear much resemblance to the events of recent history; and your continued advocacy of control is as sure a recipe for disaster in November, as it has been in the past.

[MrBenchley]

46. Too TOO funny....

"The American People hate dishonesty"
Which is why this RKBA crap is the province of an extremist fringe. Not a speck of it is anything but an outright lie.

Is there an individual right in the Second Amendment?
No, the courts have ruled again and again it's a collective right, and the amendment itself mentions "well regulated militias".

Do more guns make us safer?
No, that's a deliebrate fraud by a racist crackpot hired by the gun industry, John Lott.

Does gun control work?
It works extremely well. Most civilized countries have much more stringent controls on the ownership and sale of guns, and casualty rates there are a fraction of what they are here.

Is gun control unpopular?
Not in any way. Voters overwhelmingly want common sense gun control in place, and vote for it when presented with the option.

[MrSandman]

58. Since I can't have a true assault weapon...

Without the $200 tax and lack of parts, I will settle for the best Battle Rifle designed:

The Garand.

[el_gato]

11. Kerry owns a shotgun

I guess the anti-gun zealots HATE his guts for that.

[MrBenchley]

15. That's why we have those threads attacking Kerry....

Oh wait, those are all started by the "pro gun democrats"...

[Bowline]

19. Kerry owns a gun, therefore he simply must be a violent killer.

He's liable to go off any minute now and slaughter hundreds of children and old ladies.

[MrBenchley]

22. Guess that's that RKBA "logic" or whatever the fuck it is....

Sure glad I don't have a speck of it....it seems to render one unable to comprehend even simple arguments, unable to discern neoNazi propaganda even when it is pointed out, and makes the infected person think Larry Pratt and Ted Nugent are civil rights leaders.

[el_gato]

27. You're the one that smears gun owners, and Kerry owns a shotgun

it's your logic benchy, stop running from it

[MrBenchley]

30. RKBA "logic"....

And I actually support John Kerry, though a third of our "pro gun democrats" openly admit they don't.

[Bowline]

38. Actually, it was sarcasm.

Apparently you're too caught up in your alternate reality to recognize it.

[MrBenchley]

21. You know what's funny...

It sure doesn't seem to me that it's gun control advocates frustrated with Kerry...no matter what this article said. I sure don't see many attacks on him from the gun control side at all.

Seems more like it's the gun loonies making the stink.

[el_gato]

25. Too bad the anti-gun zealots can't show Kerry a little respect

They'll throw enough public temper tantrums to cost
us another election and Kerry knows it.

That's why he's ignoring their hate filled diatribes.

According to the anti-gun wack jobs anybody who
owns a gun is some kind of evil person. That's why
the picture of Kerry holding a shotgun makes them
so damn mad.

The primary goal of the anti-gun stooges is to disarm democrats.

[MrBenchley]

28. Good thing we've got our "pro gun democrats" speaking out

on gun owner forums such as AR15.com, and highroadrage, and the like...Oh, that's right. Our "pro gun democrats" have nothing but excuses as to why they can't say even a single pro-Democrat word over there.

"ignoring their hate filled diatribes"
Let's see, Bill Clinton and Carolyn McCarthy both spoke proudly for gun control and John Kerry at the convention...what was hate-filled about that, gato?

[el_gato]

34. Kerry is a gun owner

I know that burns you up inside.

[MrBenchley]

42. Not me, gato...

but then I'm not the one posting neoNazi propaganda.

[Crachet2004]

39. "Disarm Democrats", but worse, cost us another election...

And we are getting to the point where we cannot afford to lose elections. We are getting to the point where it is becoming apparent to a LOT of people, just why the 2nd amendmend is second...because it is THAT important!

As evidenced by these boards, there are a few posters who are SO persistent in keeping control alive as an issue, that we must really wonder if they are not on somebody's payroll!

I have advocated taking ALL control language out of the platform. It is the single biggest reason we now have a virtual GOP lock on the Federal Government...Whitehouse, Supreme Court, both Houses of Congress-everything!

After 911, and in light of some of the events that have followed, I simply do not believe polls that indicate the Americans wish to be further disarmed!

Here on DU, one thing most would agree on, from our experience of corporate media support for the GOP: if someone presents a poll, who has an axe to grind, then that poll will be manipulated at best-and most likely, a downright lie.

[MrBenchley]

44. Hahahahahaha......

"We are getting to the point where it is becoming apparent to a LOT of people, just why the 2nd amendmend is second...because it is THAT important!"
Well, lying about it is certainly paramount for the gun lobby....

"We believe that the constitutional right to bear arms is primarily a collective one, intended mainly to protect the right of the states to maintain militias to assure their own freedom and security against the central government. In today's world, that idea is somewhat anachronistic and in any case would require weapons much more powerful than handguns or hunting rifles. The ACLU therefore believes that the Second Amendment does not confer an unlimited right upon individuals to own guns or other weapons nor does it prohibit reasonable regulation of gun ownership, such as licensing and registration. "

http://archive.aclu.org/library/aaguns.html

"there are a few posters who are SO persistent in keeping control alive as an issue, that we must really wonder if they are not on somebody's payroll!"
Gee that's pretty ironic...considering that a THIRD of our "pro gun democrats" ADMIT they're not voting for Kerry...and that attacks on Democrats from the trigger happy are common down here.

[el_gato]

45. I'm just happy to know Kerry is a gun owner

[MrBenchley]

48. Yeah, it shows....(snicker)

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

50. Surrender, Dorothy!

"Are well on the way to trading the few like YOU, to get that one third of DU Democrats back. "
Is that why we've got all these posts bitching about the program and John Kerry? Sure as shit fooled me. And who the hell wants the sort of fuckwit that puts his popgun above the good of the country?

"DU is pretty left-wing"
Which is why we're constantly trolled by freepers and other scum...who often go back to their cesspools and boast about how they hang out in the gungeon here trying to disrupt the board. Go figure THAT.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=170057

[library_max]

51. Is there an actual link to an actual article, speech, or website

in which some actual gun control advocate is bitching about Kerry? The most I can see here is Blaine Rummel, with a microphone shoved in his face, admitting that he's not entirely happy.

But the thesis here seems to be that gun control advocates are damaging Kerry with their tantrums. So could anybody please point to any such tantrum, anywere, anytime?

I do see, as MrBenchley pointed out, our own RKBAers starting threads to bitch and moan about Kerry's support for the AWB, which is wildly popular nationwide. But I don't see any gun control advocates publicly attacking Kerry for not being sufficiently anti-gun.

Put up or shut up.

[MrBenchley]

52. Funny, isn't it....

A quick swing round the gun control groups websites sees no such uproar....

Wander round to some of the gun nut cesspools, however, and they're practically foaming at the mouth...

[library_max]

53. Still waiting. /nt

[library_max]

54. Still waiting. /nt

[library_max]

55. Still waiting. /nt

[MrBenchley]

56. Big surprise. Like everything else in the RKBA canon

it's horseshit.

[JayS]

57. All I have seen or heard of this is two guys at the Brady Bunch...

...talking about it. Even they are questionable as they talk about (Annenberg) polling the NRA members; this is kind of hard to do.

[library_max]

62. So, as suspected, you guys have got nothing.

The entire premise of this thread is one big, fat, stupid lie. What a surprise.

[MrBenchley]

63. Everything about the RKBA is a "big, fat, stupid lie"

[MrSandman]

60. More silence last night...n/t

[MrBenchley]

61. And still no sign anybody but gun nuts are discomfited...

well, who didn't know this story was horseshit....

[MrBenchley]

64. And still no sign anybody but gun nuts are discomfited...

By Kerry, Edwards and/or the Democratic National Convention and its platform.

[MrBenchley]

65. And STILL no sign anybody but gun nuts are discomfited...

By Kerry, Edwards and/or the Democratic National Convention and its platform...although we have got an RKBAer comparing Kerry to crisco boy...

[MrBenchley]

66. "And STILL no sign anybody but gun nuts are discomfited..."

By Kerry, Edwards and/or the Democratic National Convention and its platform...although we have got an RKBAer comparing Kerry to crisco boy...and another trying to pretend enthusiastic agreement with the platofrm as it is written is an "NRA talking point."

The honesty of the RKBA movement is in full view, isn't it?