i want to apologize to the Pro-Gun democrats of the gungeon.

[UpsideDownFlag]

earlier today, me and some other left of left dems got in a rather heated discussion with a moderate dem about the DLC. It was insinuated that we were not true democrats because of our lack of support for the DLC. I spoke up in protest, saying that just because I loathe the DLC and it's Pub-lite policies, doesn't mean im not a loyal liberal, etc. etc. and then it occured to me...

i'd been doing the same thing to people who, for all other purposes except their pro-gun stance, probably are as loyal as i am to the Liberal/democratic cause. I still disagree with them about this, but it is not my position to doubt their allegiance, or infer that they are freepers, or whatever.

so...i apologize. you can deal with this thread however you wish, I think my solution to my troubles will be to avoid the gungeon.

-Jibby

:toast: :beer: :grouphug:

[whistle]

1. Not bad, did one of them threaten your life?

[UpsideDownFlag]

2. no...it was just a quiet revelation i had. nt

[mhr]

3. I Am Pro-Gun Because Of The Christian Fundamentalists That Want

to remake America into a Christan Theocracy.

I expect that at some point in the future I will need to defend myself from the Christan Freeper hordes as they implement a Karl Rove, Rush Limbaugh, Pat Robertson inspired revolution.

I will not hesitate to use weapons in that case as I do not intend to live with a Bible hanging over my head.

[Van23]

29. I'm pro-gun for the same reason!!

Amen, brother!

www.liberalswithguns.com

[noahmijo]

4. I'm one of those "pro-gunners" in the sense that I own many guns

But I totally support gun laws, background checks, ect.

Most of us gun owners were just raised with them like I was. Our fathers and their fathers before them owned firearms passed them down to their sons and so forth, we are put into the position where we almost have to accept the legacy of being educated about guns and not deny our inheritances.

If you hate guns fine I don't care, but I do appreciate the acknowledgement that not all of us pro-gunners are maniacs who have some sick obsession with tools of death.

Besides, if the neo-cons ever decide to rise up and start wishing to round up good peaceful liberals who do you think will be the ones to show up to defend against the neo-con bullies who think they are macho because they own shotguns and pistols?

Just think of us as being the "raw liberals" as I call us. We are on your side we're the anti right wing gun nut.

:)

[Redneck Socialist]

5. Thanks JibJab

We will probably always disagree on guns but we agree on the DLC. It is no help to our party.

[MrSandman]

6. My solution(for the most) until 3 November

To prevent internecine squabbles.

Discussion here is a contact endeavor.

[Columbia]

7. Thanks man

That is real big of you. Now, let's work together to get rid of Bush.

:toast: :beer: :grouphug:

[UpsideDownFlag]

8. sounds like a plan. nt

[Crachet2004]

9. I guess I am an odd case, in that I am about as far left on most issues...

As someone can be, and yet I simply think the time is over, or near over, when the American People are willing to tolerate further curtailment of their liberty by government, no matter how good the reasoning behind the restriction-and not just gun control, but motorcycle helmet laws, seatbelt laws, no smoking, etc...

And I am a great believer in the Constitution. EVERY item in it, and especially the Bill of Rights, was put there for a REASON, by people a hell of a lot smarter and more educated than I am, even though I live two hundred years after they have died, and attended a modern University.

They had just thrown off a yoke that many of us see tightening daily around our own throats, and much of the Constitution, and ESPECIALLY the Bill of Rights was specifically designed to combat tyranny...like the kind we see looming with the Patriot Act.

The 2nd Amendment, no matter what else may be said, was, in my opinion, SPECIFICALLY put into place to combat the Police Power of government, and to create a balance to the creeping development of a tyrannical central government...which is EXACTLY what many of us believe we are seeing, unfolding in front of our eyes.

And why is it second? Because it is THAT important.

The neocons and fundys are assaulting the Constitution endlessly, and not just with Patriot. There are countless asinine Dominionist efforts being held at bay in the Congress, like the DOMA...and Orrin Hatch even wants an amendment so Arnold can run for President...wants to change the Constitution for THAT idiot! What would the Sons of Liberty say about that?

And what political hay could we as a Democratic Party make of the attempts by certain elements of the GOP to subvert, or at the very least change much of the Constitution,as we know it today?

If we would give up our own (and I believe, largely doomed) assault on the Second Amendment, we could turn the tables...wrap ourselves in the Flag as defenders of the venerable document...but we have to defend the WHOLE Constitution, not just the parts of it we like, or we will be seen as being no better than the other side-and rightly so.

I see dropping support for gun control from our national platform as key to becoming the undisputed dominant Party again.

Leave it to the states and localities to determine how much, if any control there shall be....one size does NOT fit all on this issue, and it is absolutly freaking killing us in the rural states.

But as to your comments, things do get a little out of hand in JandPS...but that is democracy in action.

In the gungeon, the whole world can see opinions gradually pulling back from favoring further support for control.

If Bush wins in November, this trend will most likely accelerate.

[greendeerslayer]

34. liberal hell...

.....I'm a leftist, and I agree with your post %100 Crachet2004
JibJab, apology accepted.

[op6203]

38. Excellent post IMO n/t

[slackmaster]

10. No apology needed, JibJab

You've expressed your disagreements with maturity and respect.

Congratulations on your moment of clarity. I live for them and always feel like a burden has been lifted from my shoulders when they happen. If only I could think of the word on the tip of my brain - Kind of like a revelation and a catharsis. Oh well, I'll wake up at 3:00 AM and shout it out loud.

Go in peace, and don't neglect to vote on November 2.

:toast:

[slackmaster]

13. "Epiphany"

The word came to me as a bolt from the blue about 11:30 PM last night.

:D

[UpsideDownFlag]

26. funny how that happens, eh? nt

[slackmaster]

28. Yeah, it's called the "tip of the brain" effect

I just had another one where the word I was searching for was the transitive verb "to aggregate". I work for a compeny that aggregates data from various sources and sells it.

[gatlingforme]

11. NO apology needed here either.

[Romulus]

12. thanks, bud

:toast:

No apology needed . . . .

[FatSlob]

14. We love ya!

If only some of our more loyal posters would have the same revelation that you did, we wouldn't be defending ourselves against charges that we are Klansmen, Nazis, or "right wing shitheels". Thanks, Jib.

[Township75]

15. We were likely much closer than we ever both thought...

I am willing to bet most pro gunners here, like myself, where strongly supportive of Howard Dean in the primaries, the original anti-DLC candidate.

I am not a big fan of the DLC either.

:puke:Terry McAuliffe

[BigDaddyCaine]

20. The TOWN!!!

:hi: :-)

Did you post this at exactly 420 on accident?

[-..__...]

16. No problem.

My attitude is that it's only the Internet.

Now... if we can only get you out to a shooting range your journey to the Dark Side will be complete.

[UpsideDownFlag]

18. eh, no need to take me out to the range.

i'll just agree to disagree.

[BigDaddyCaine]

17. maybe im wrong here but

if you dont support the DLC then you are not a democrat. Doesnt the DLC run the party, pretty much? Liberal you most certainly are, just not a true democrat.

Arguing about gun control is a loser for both sides. Neither will change their minds. I do think it is very wrong to label someone a conservative just because they take a pro gun stance. I am a gun owner and i have met alot more conservatives with guns than liberals, but there are liberals with guns too. There are also conservatives who are pro choice. Some times people agree with the other side on a few topics. Thats just they way life is.

[UpsideDownFlag]

19. respectfully, i have to say that DLC=Democrat.

is utter bull.

[BigDaddyCaine]

21. Is it?

[UpsideDownFlag]

24. yes, it is. would you say howard dean, DK, or Wellstone weren't

good, faithful dems?

[BigDaddyCaine]

32. something tells me i shouldnt have gave an opinion on this

but i already did so here goes.... yes, they ran as dems, but would they have held office as a green? Didnt Dean disagree with the mainstream dems? (dlc)

my opinion is, if you dont agree with the DLC, maybe you should be placed somewhere else in the political world. Not that there is anywhere else to go. You can vote libertarian or green if you dont really care who gets elected between the reps or dems. The 2 party system is corrupt and i dont wish to get into a flamefest over what i said about the DLC. Sorry if it made you mad.

[Township75]

33. BDC, please consider...

that some of us wouldn't view the DLC as the "real" democratic party.

Before the Iraq war, where were the DLC candidates? Dean had the balls to be against the war when it wasn't popular to be against it. He said the case against Iraq was not proven, BEFORE we went into Iraq. He was the opposition to Bush, when other Dems were not.

And time has shown he was correct. That is why I would rather be voting for Dean.

[UpsideDownFlag]

35. good case against the DLC.

the lack of flames should also help.

[UpsideDownFlag]

36. no reply from feeb yet.

i hope he gets to read this, too.

[UpsideDownFlag]

31. where ya at, big daddy? whatcha have to say about dean/wellstone?

nt

[slackmaster]

22. Are you confusing the DLC and the DNC?

DLC = Democratic Leadership Council http://www.ndol.org

DNC = Democratic National Committee http://www.democrats.org

[BigDaddyCaine]

23. possible

but i dont think so. Wouldnt the leadership council be the ones in control of how the party votes?

Maybe i shouldnt have said control...more like influenced. So if your party is influenced by a group you disagree with, then is it really your party or just another party that you would relate to had it not been overrun by those you do not agree with??? Does that make sense?

[jody]

25. I do believe Slackmaster is correct. I recommend you visit the links

Slackmaster provided.

[Zhade]

40. The DLC is not to be trusted.

See my signature for reasons why.

[mosin]

27. Thank you.

I appreciate your apology.

I must say, however, that as a moderate, Texas Democrat, I believe the DLC is the real hope for the DNC. I was proud to support Clinton because he promised a new era for the Democratic party. In anger over the 2000 election and the war, the party has abandoned that new direction, and I do not believe it is good for the party or the country.

[enfield collector]

30. thank you for your understanding

[skippythwndrdog]

37. None needed

Dontcha know that the loudest and most profane arguments happen within families?

[UpsideDownFlag]

39. i suppose this is true. nt