My response to any who would say, "Guns are only good for killing".

[FatSlob]

Self defense is about killing.

[judge_smales]

1. OK.

Maybe I'm a simpleton, but why are you bringing this to our attention.

[Worst Username Ever]

2. Self defense in not about killing.

Even I know that, and I am pro-gun. Self defense is about incapacitation. Killing is just one of many, many methods.

[FatSlob]

3. True, I'm being a bit extreme in the 1st post.

Killing is the usual result of armed self defense.

[John BigBootay]

14. I don't know, FS--

I say self-defense is best achieved first through common sense (don't go into dangerous areas, keep your doors locked, etc.), then through facing the danger head on by brandishing, then as a last option by shooting to kill.

I have never had to brandish or shoot in a self-defense situation, but I can't say I'd relish the act of killing, even if it is a low-life scumbag who wanted to rob me etc.

[wtmusic]

4. A lot of crime is about killing

Guns work pretty well for crime, too.

[goju]

5. Id have to say, self defense isnt ALL about killing

but I see your point. Too add to your original post, guns are good for much more than killing. Baseball bats might only be good for, or designed for hitting a ball, but the time you spend with the kids and the memories you create are much more important than actually hitting the ball. But Id like to make sure my sons can use a bat, and a gun, properly.

[-..__...]

7. I see killing in self defense as a last resort.

I think the most important aspect and preferred approach to self defense is situational awareness. Better to avoid or defuse the situation first if at all possible.

However, in a real shit-hits-the-fan scenario, and there's no other alternative, then it's buh-bye bad guy.

[FatSlob]

10. I agree. It is the last resort.

[Big Kahuna]

6. Guns have many other legitimate uses, beside killing.

like putting holes in beercans, mailboxes and traffic signs :)

[LeftyLarry]

8. Plus,

Some people need killing.

[FatSlob]

9. In an episode of "Bonanza" that line was used...

...by a psychotic preacher. Actually, when asked why he had murdered all those people, he said, "Bad people need killing".

[Wickerman]

11. Welcome to DU, "Lefty"

:hi:

Funny post!

[MrSandman]

12. I think that is a valid defense in WV..nt

[slackmaster]

13. I say self-defense is about stopping a violent attack

If the attacker happens to die as a result of the defender's actions, that's unfortunate but entirely the fault of the attacker for making bad choices.

[mosin]

15. Exactly

Self-defense is not about "killing." It is about stopping an attack. With a firearm, self defense most commonly that involves simply brandishing the firearm. It may involve firing the firearm. It may involve causing an injury. The injury may result in death.

But "killing" should never be the goal, even if it is the expected result (e.g., a sniper taking a shot at the head of a hostage-holding maniac).

[slackmaster]

16. Killing should be the goal only if you are bing attacked by zombies

Then you aim for the head.

:argh:

[mosin]

19. Zombies

Zombies are already dead, so there is no need to "kill" them again. The goal is to "stop" them from eating your brains, either by blowing their heads off or chopping them into tiny bits.

[slackmaster]

21. If they're dead then they aren't "attacking" you

So if you "destroy" one you aren't engaging in an act of "self-defense", but "protection".

:dunce:

[iverglas]

22. almost!

They're attacking you all right, just not "unlawfully". Since the laws don't apply to zombies, to the best of my knowldge.

You destroy a zombie out of necessity. That's useful to know -- so you're not left wondering whether you might be required to try to avert death by escaping rather than shooting it in the head.

[iverglas]

17. and the question remains

"My response to any who would say, "Guns are only good for killing"."

Do you often speak to someone who has not spoken?

If you like that sort of thing, I could always offer you my response to, oh, those who say that it never rains but what it pours.

Now, my response, if anyone were to say what you seem to think someone might say, would be:

Nuh uh. Guns are really good for holding up banks, too.

Just for starters.

[mosin]

18. Shoe boxes

A guy recently held up a bank with a shoe box. I thought it was very creative. Stupid and criminal, but creative.

[iverglas]

20. don't tell me, let me guess

"A guy recently held up a bank with a shoe box."

He told bank staff that he had a tarantula inside the shoe box.

No? A deadly cobra maybe?

Anthrax? Itching powder? The gateway to hell? Peanut butter? If he happened to hit a teller who was allergic, that would be an effective threat of force.

Oh, duh. I didn't think of the obvious.

http://iafrica.com/news/sa/62311.htm

Inspector Johann van Greunen said a 32-year-old man entered the bank in Cleary Park carrying a shoe box and a remote control switch around 11.45am on Monday.

The man told the cashier the box contained a bomb and demanded cash. He was told to wait for the manager.

... Van Greunen said the shoe box was later found to contain a bundle of old wire.

Of course, "this box contains a firearm" would probably have worked, too. Keeping one's firearm concealed can increase one's chances of success, since one reduces the risk of premature detection, and a lot of people wouldn't want to call one's bluff. Not quite as elegantly simple as just sticking one's hand in one's overcoat pocket and making like one is pointing a handgun, but ingenious.

Ah, there are ingenious robbers the world over:

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=7th&navby=case&no=993846

Within a sixteen day period in 1998, Emmanuel Hart robbed three banks in Chicago, Illinois. On June 8, 1998, Mr. Hart entered Mid City National Bank and approached a bank teller. Mr. Hart then placed a package wrapped in a brown paper bag on the counter in front of the teller and gave the teller a demand note, which stated, "'I have a bomb in this box<.> There is also two bomb's on the 5 floor<.> I want the 100.00's 50.00's 20.00<'s> now or we all die<.>'" R.32 at 3. After reading the note, the teller complied with Mr. Hart's demand by removing the money from his drawer and placing it on the counter. Mr. Hart took the money and left the bank.

[mosin]

25. A rash of shoe box robberies

I didn't realize there had been a rash of shoe box and brown paper bag robberies around the globe.

Here is the only online report I could find of our recent shoe box robber: http://www.channelcincinnati.com/news/3802621/detail.html.

[iverglas]

29. "He had a shoe box and told the teller it was a bomb."

"Told the teller". There's something just weird about that one.

[BigDaddyCaine]

30. .

:-)

[slackmaster]

32. That's always bothered me too

I was a systems analyst at a bank for almost seven years.

The worst bank speech I experienced was managers who always discussed tasks in terms of what kind of "basis" (meaning schedule or interval) they were done on - Daily, weekly, monthly, as-needed, etc.

I got in trouble when I wrote a memo that instructed people to do a task on a "whenever you feel like it basis."

[MrSandman]

33. Should have made it...

A need to go basis.

[FatSlob]

23. Not too keen on rhetorical devices, are you?

Note Bene the hypothetical, my dearest Canajun.

[iverglas]

24. actually, it's a "conditional"

"Note Bene the hypothetical, my dearest Canajun."

But call it what you will, my question remains. Perhaps I can phrase it more clearly.

Your topic:

"My response to any who would say, 'Guns are only good for killing'."

My question:

Do you make a habit of replying to things you have made up?

In order for something to be a "response", it generally needs to be preceded by something that calls for one.

In order for most people to feel a need to respond to something, there must generally have been a stimulus that prompted the "response".

I just can't think of what that stimulus might have been, in the present case.

My response to any who would say "the moon is made of green cheese" is "oh, yeah?" I've just never felt the need to articulate this, whether because I've never encountered anyone who said, or was even likely to say, "the moon is made of green cheese" or because, if I have, I just didn't think a response was needed.

[slackmaster]

26. The moon, being made of green cheese,

the right to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

[mosin]

27. :)

:)

[iverglas]

28. well shit

Now I suppose I have to respond to it.

OH YEAH?

I'm not sure that covers all aspects of the strange compound assertion in question, but I figure it's as good as anything else.


Hey, did anybody have anything to tell nothingshocksmeanymore about DNR? I finally just had a browse in the lounge archives to see what it was all about, and was left rather aghast and wondering.

[FatSlob]

31. Did you not note the "would"?

Once again, a hypothetical, what part don't you get? Has being a lawyer really fried your brain so much that you have trouble conversing in common language. Your pompousness bores me. I'm sure you could find another lawyer to split hairs with, please don't do it with us.