What to own -- a real gun or a taser gun?

[__Inanna__]

Just stumbled across this board and thought I would pose this question.

I am a single woman living alone and got very paranoid when I moved to where I live, as the home invasion rate is twice that in my former place of residence (this in spite of the fact in live in a safe part of this new city).

I had a scare when I first got here, so I had an alarm system installed and I have a couple of fobs/remote control thingys in case I need to turn the alarm on immediately. I also have a couple of small dogs that bark a lot, but could do no damage to anyone.

I considered getting a gun, but then put it out of my mind. I don't like them and they give me the creeps. Then someone mentioned a taser gun instead, but I think the clips are pretty expensive, not to mention what happens if you miss once or twice and only have one or two clips at a time.

Does a single woman need a gun in this day and age? If so, is a taser the way to go? I have dowels in the doors and windows and the alarm is hooked up to all the sliders (not windows).

Thanks.

[gumby]

1. I got a cattle prod.

Not kidding. It was a while back, and I DID have a live, in-person criminal invader.

After that, I got a cattle prod because I thought it was kinda like the Jedi Light Sword. I positioned it in a central, easily reachable location.

Maybe you could get several.

[Fulcrum]

2. Gun or no gun

If you're that afraid of guns, then do yourself a favor and stay away from them. Some formal firearm training might change your mind/behavior, but if you get one at this point and treat it like hell spawn there is no way you can use it safely. Not only that, but using a firearm for self-defense requires practice and you'd need to set time aside to go to the range every so often.

As for tasers, they're fine if there isn't more than one intruder and they're standing still. I think the fact of missed darts you already brought up, which is a real possibility when the adrenline gets flowing.

I personally recommend you get a short-term solution (taser, mace, anything is better than nothing) and schedule for a gun saftey course where you get range time. If after taking the course you still find guns intolerable, then make do with what you can handle. Guns are the best tools for self-defense, but only if you're confident in using them. If you do find firearms to your liking, plan on buying a quality firearm ($400~) and small, lockable bedside safe ($75~).

[Nicky Scarfo]

10. I concur...

If you're not comfortable with firearms, you shouldn't own one. If you really feel like you need one, go to a pistol range that allows you to use their guns and get some formal training. Once you are comfortable using a handgun (or shotgun, whatver your preference is), then and only then should you purchase one.

To repeat what Fulcrum said, even when you are ready to purchase one, you should still go down to the range every now and then to practice, and in the meantime get some other sort of weapon you're more comfortable using (mace, baseball bat, axe, whatever).

Or you can get a live-in boyfriend. You don't have to like him, and he doesn't have to be tough enough to defend you, but you could send him out to catch a bullet and hopefully give you enough time to escape. Date an asshole-- that way you don't feel guilty when you say "Honey, can you go see what that is?" and slip out of the bedroom window shortly thereafter.

A rabid monkey is also a good self-defense tool. You can purchase one at www.rabidmonkeyshop.com

[MrDifranco]

3. I just posted this in another thread

Start with the book "Effective Defense" by Gila Hayes. She is a fabulous instructor. This book should get you thinking about self-defense in a realistic mindset from the point of view from another woman. See my other post for related links:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=93081&mesg_id=93724&page=

[__Inanna__]

4. How weird is this...

maybe it's something with Dianes, as that's my first name (in reference to your link). Anyway, thank you all. I am not THAT afraid of guns, just uncomfortable and don't like the reality of even having to consider them. Far as a cattle prodder goes, I will have to google that. I imagine it's along the lines of a baseball bat, which can be easily grabbed by someone and used against me, I'd think. Thanks.

[LinuxUser]

5. Tasers vs. guns

No one needs a gun. Owning a gun is an individual decision. Some people have emotional issues with guns and have decided to not own one no matter what. They're adults and that's their decision. So you don't need a gun.

So how do you decide if you should get one or not? My personal belief, motivated by my spiritual beliefs, is that all non-criminal adults, by default, should own a gun, unless they can find reasons not to. There are many possible reasons not to: you hate guns, you don't have the money for the gun and training, you have children around and don't trust yourself to secure it properly, your living situation is such that it can't be properly secured, you are prone to depression (or other emotional or mental factors), it's not legal for you to own a gun, or you just find guns so boring that you wouldn't invest the time needed to learn it. That list of reasons not to own a gun is not exhaustive; there could be many more. But, in my opinion, driven by my spiritual beliefs, if you can't come up with good reasons not to, you should.

Guns vs. taser: There really is no comparison here. Tasers are basically for law enforcement officers who have laws protecting them from liability, and have liability lawyers and insurance and the city to back them up. Non-cops just don't have any good scenarios for using these kind of "non-lethal" force things. Tasers are dangerous and can kill someone with heart conditions. They need training just like a gun needs training. They are probably more expensive than a basic gun. And all this is aside from the fact that guns are much much more effective. I think non-law-enforcement civilians should stay away from tasers. Pepper spray is another one; it's safe and non-lethal, but it's not nearly as effective as a gun, not even in the same ballpark. It's good to have pepper spray but it is not a substitute for a gun.

Basically, if your life is not in danger, then you don't need any kind of force. If your life is in danger, then you are justified in using lethal force. There isn't an in-between situation for civilians. Cops do run into the in-between situations and so that's why they have tasers, batons, etc.

The other advantage of guns is that guns are FUN. It's fun to learn a new skill. It's fun to shoot. It's fun to try out different kinds of guns and pick the one (or more than one) you want.

And finally, by owning a gun, you are exercising one of our fundamental rights. The way to keep that right is to exercise it. We should all do it if we can.

Getting started with a gun does not have to be expensive or difficult. The first thing to do is to really ask yourself "under which situations could I use deadly force? Am I prepared to do that? Am I prepared for the consequences? Do I trust myself with this? When is lethal force justified and correct?" To answer those questions you need to do some thinking, some reading and some talking. Talk to your spiritual or moral advisor, talk to a lawyer, talk to friends you trust and figure these things out.

The second thing you should do is find someone near you, preferably a friend, who has plenty of experience with firearms, and can help you get started. Try going to the range and testing out a few different firearms to see if you like it. It seems like every range has some classes (of varying quality) in the basics of gun safety, basic use of firearms, and basic self defense with a firearm. Some of these range classes are good, some are not, but they are a good place to start. Take one of those classes, or several of them.

Finally, after having done some reading, taken some classes, talked to whoever you should talk to about it, you'll be ready to buy a gun. Which kind you get is up to you. They'e all effective, but some are more effective than others in some situations. It's most important to choose one that you like, feel comfortable with, and will practice with. For indoor use in your home, a handgun or perhaps a shotgun is best. Shotguns have much more stopping-power but are also more difficult to use and more intimidating (at both ends!). So a handgun is often the best one for home defense.

Handguns don't have to be expensive. You can get a fairly good new revolver such as a Taurus in 357 magnum for about $300. This would be a good choice to start with. You could also get a used Smith and Wesson or other higher quality revolver in that same price range, if you have someone who can help you pick a good one. A 357 magnum revolver is probably the best way to start, because they are so simple to use, and reliable, and you can see how they work just by looking at them. 357 magnum is a powerful and very effective cartridge, but one other cool thing about 357 magnum revolvers is that they can also use 38 special ammunition. 38 special is effective enough, and has less recoil so it might be more comfortable to use.

If you want to go for a semi-auto, there are plenty of choices there, too. You can get a Glock for about $500. They are very effective and simple to use. I like them. But automatics do have more buttons and moving parts and complexity so starting with a revolver might be better. It just depends on how much training you want to get.

So, if you go for the inexpensive revolver, you'll spend $300 on the gun and about $500 to $1000 on training and practice ammo. An auto such as a Glock will be $500 to start with, and of course there are autos costing many times that if you want to spend it.

Finally, I strongly recommend getting several days of real professional training. I have taken many many classes at Front Sight (http://www.frontsight.com) and I would recommend at least a two-day class there. You will learn a lot about it and you will come out ready to use your handgun (or shotgun) to defend yourself. There are several other schools too, but I only have experience with Front Sight.

One other site which will help you make your decision and give you some good links is this one: http://www.a-human-right.com. Read through it and think about it.

Think, think about ethics, think about safety, and then decide.

One more important thing to keep in mind is that all of this can be FUN. The training is fun, shooting is fun, you'll meet fun and friendly people, it's a fun activity to do with friends, etc. If it weren't fun I wouldn't do it, myself.

[goju]

6. Get a bigger dog

Get a trained watch dog. Probably the same amount of money youd pay for a gun and the training involved, but much more reliable. Keep a cell phone with you at all times, evey by your bed stand, and leave your doors and windows locked at all times. Keep a few lights on, and the tv or radio on at night. If you can, try to display some macho items in plain view of your house/apartment such as hockey sticks, banners from sports teams, etc etc. Hang a Raiders banner in your window Youd be surprised at the reaction that will get. ;)

You dont sound like you are ready for a gun. Besides, a few common sense measures will probably ensure your home will be much safer than the one next to you.

[Zynx]

7. Think carefully about this.

Do NOT get a gun unless you think you would be perfectly able to shoot and kill an intruder. I say kill because you really have to aim at someone's torso unless you're a trick shot. Gunshot wounds to the torso will frequently kill.

That's the reality of a gun.

As far as the alternatives, a big, nice, and very robust dog is a great one and what I would recommend. No one with any sort of choice is going to mess with a large dog, even if it isn't actually mean. The potential damage scares the shit out of people. Black labs are great. Rotweilers and German Shepards are also good choices. Get a well-bred one and you're the only one who has to know that its a nice big goof. You don't need to train it to attack. If you're threatened, it will do that all on its own.

Blunt weapons (batons, bats) and most mail-order shit should not be used by a woman for self-defense. These generally require hand to hand combat, and a male intruder is likely to win that, and be more angry than he was in the first place. There also are very real health issues with using knives, swords or things like Chinese knuckles - blood is not a very good thing to get on you. I personally use an East German steel spring baton, but I'm an agile young adult male with a good amount of muscle.

Tasers and stun guns do work, but they're not all that easy to use. You either need to be very close if you have a cattle prod/baton/handheld or you need to hit the target with the prongs of a taser gun. However, these will most certainly level someone.

Standard mace and pepper gas are borderline worthless, especially the little keychain spray things. If you want to use this, get a big fogger thing of bear spray. I personally don't think this stuff works that well on a charging bear because of the forward momentum of the beast, but boy will it ever lay out a human.

All of that said, I would recommend the dog. Plus you can play with it. :)

[slackmaster]

8. Another vote for "Get a bigger dog"

If you're not a candidate for a gun IMO you're not a candidate for a taser either. Tasers are gnarly weapons that cause intense pain and (rarely) can kill.

If you don't have a cell phone I think you should get one of those too.

[__Inanna__]

9. Thank you all

for such thoughtful replies. I agree, I am not ready to get a gun and I probably never will be, unless something bad happens. It's weird, the other night somehow the pool light turned on in my pool in my yard (and it's only turned on by a switch). It kind of creeped me out, thinking how the heck did that happen. It was about 3 a.m. and I went out to turn it off, sort of makes me wonder. I am going to chock it up to some mystery, I guess.

At any rate, I am not a big dog kind of person and with two already, I think I have reached my limit. But I do thank you for all your comments.

[Nicky Scarfo]

11. I'm tellin ya, live-in asshole boyfriend and rabid monkey is the way to go

nt

[EDT]

12. Big can of pepper spray, one to practice with, and one to use.

I'm a gun owner, but agree with others you should get some training.

Even police under alot of pressure will fire multiple shots from a
handgun and miss their attacker in the heat of the moment.

I've tried many kinds of pepper spray, and agree with an above poster
that the little keychain ones are worthless- they just shoot a few
feet, and you get 3-4 squirts out of them. It will just peeve off
someone that you tried to spray them.

Buy a bigger one (I'm thinking around 4 inches high, by 3/4" wide
roughly).

Most importantly, buy two wheny you're buying one, and try shooting
one of them as practice outdoors (with wind not blowing back at you)
so you know how far it shoots, and how many squirts you can get into
someones eyes/nose.

Lastly- Don't use the can you intend to defend yourself till you have
to. Pepper spray cans are kind of like soda bottles. They last
forever, but once you use it once, the pressure will diminish within
a few weeks.

[JeebusB]

14. Fox Labs is a good choice.

Getting a gun for self defense entails a change in your lifestyle. All the foregoing from others about training is correct and, like anything else, you have to have it close to hand if it's going to do you any good. Regardless of your decision on the gun, I still recommend Fox Labs pepper spray. Even though I carry a gun all the time, I still carry pepper too. If spraying someone is a viable alternative, I'd MUCH rather do that than shoot them.

on edit: I would recommend against a taser gun. Such things are only properly employed when you have back-up armed with a real gun. If you still like the idea, then the hand-held stun guns are better for your application. As others have mentioned, their greatest shortcoming is that you have to be withing arms length to use them and that exposes you to greater harm and the possibility of having the unit taken away. The strength of the firearm lies in its ability to project force significantly past the length of your arms.


Check out:

http://www.comp-tac.com/ct_foxlabs.html

The 2-oz flip top, I believe, also comes in a fogger which, I think, is preferable. It's not on their web site, but I'm pretty sure you can also order a 1# fogger that's the pepper spray equivalent of a fire extinguisher - But they're a bit pricey. Most of the Fox Labs stuff is 5.3 million SHU and it's pretty hot stuff. I've read many reports of folks taking a hit of Fox in the face and I've not heard of anyone who wasn't sufficiently impressed.

http://www.chemsoc.org/exemplarchem/entries/mbellringer/scoville.htm

If you get the pepper, go ahead and get some of the Sudecon decontaminate wipes. Pepper spray is an imprecise tool at best and you'll likely get some on yourself if you ever have to use it. The Sudecon Decontaminate Wipes lifts the capsaicin out of the skin much better than soap/water.

[Deja Q]

13. Taser gun. They do what is needed without needless killing.

Even if the one attacking deserves to die. They'll still go to jail, which is probably worse than death anyway.