Right To Carry

[antiflagdemocrat]

What do you guys think about the right to carry(right to carry concealed firearms)issue?
I think it is horrible and shows us what kind of nation we are if people really think that it is neccesary to carry guns everywhere they go!

[Fla_Democrat]

1. What do I think?

I think this is destined to be moved to justice/public safety. :evilgrin:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=118

[KCDem]

2. aw, crap, welcome to DU!

:beer:

You might need a few of those if you really want this discussion!

[Procopius]

3. I think the US is the only country that allows free carry to anyone

Most countries don't even allow their police to carry concealed!

[KS_44]

7. ISRAEL

Israel has some interesting gun laws.

open carry is one of them

[maxomai_vs_rove]

4. RIght and Duty

I live in a shall-issue right-to-carry state. I prefer it this way.

I live in a safe neighborhood and I treat the neighbors with respect. Even so, there's always the possibility that someone could take something I say the wrong way, or would want to molest my girlfriend, or would go a-stalking. We have neighborhood watch to prevent crime. I have a shotgun for anything that isn't frightened of neighborhood watch.

Similarly, I carry a concealed weapon on occasion, just in case I run into that one in a million situation where I need to use the damn thing. I sincerely hope I never, ever have to use my handgun to defend myself. If I do, then I'm trained to use it.

Some people *need* a concealed handgun. Women with jealous and violent ex-relations, people who transport expensive goods such as jewelery, people who can't get checking accounts and carry cash with them everywhere, people who live in dangerous neighborhoods and can't afford to move. I figure, as long as they know how to use it safely, the government should give them permission.

[Lindacooks]

5. It's wrong

and will only lead to more injury and death.

[slackmaster]

23. Your belief is based on fear and not supported by facts

See the chart in reply #22 and show us evidence that concealed weapons permit holders are causing are causing their own crime wave in any of the states that have have turned blue in the last 17 years.

The fear you have voiced is a common argument against RTC laws, but in no case has that ever turned out to be valid. After a few years without a rash of incidents of permit holders going berzerk eventually some people who opposed the change in the law grudgingly accept that their fears were unfounded. Others are never able to look at the reality objectively.

[Ergotron]

38. It's wrong...

Important note: Before anyone feels the need to assualt my character let me state for the record I am NOT some right-wing extremist gun nut, just a realistic American.

That said, I must respectfully disagree with Linda. It is already illegal for someone to use a gun to commit a crime. PERIOD. However, criminals still have and use guns. Police have and use guns to counter criminals, shouldn't you too. A gun is a tool, just like a hammer, a screwdriver, or a computer. One can choose to use any of these tools to commit a crime, most of us choose not to. A few always will use them to do harm, it's a fact of life.

Simple math: There are substantially MORE crooks than cops so the crooks are fairly unlikely to run up against a cop while committing a crime. The police usually show up in time to take a statement from the victim but rarely in time to thwart the crime in progress.

I, for one, will not allow some punk toting a gun, a knife, or just a gang of ghetto thugs to victimize me, my family, or anyone else I have the opportunity to help.

Lindacooks, would you, or anyone else opposed to the basic right of self defense, be willing to put one of these signs in your front yard?

[rusk2003]

6. Here is who should be allowed to carry concealed firearms

Here are the only people who should be allowed to carry Consealed Firearms when they leave their home.

Politicans,Celebrities,CorporateExcutives,journalist's,Attorneys,Judges,Law Enforcement,Millatary,Billonairs,Millionairs,Bodygurads, Private Detectives,Security Gurads, People who are being stalked, People in the wittnes protection program, after they have completed a training course.

All Others should be allowed to carry air tasers,stunguns and peper sprays or other non lethel defence products. Since those people mentioned above are in a high risk catagory.Iam not oppesed to the home owenership of firearms. I think the governmnet should promote home owenership of firearms reduces Burgluries.

[KS_44]

8. Peons

Us peons cant be trusted with guns huh?

I have every right to defend my life and the life of others as those you listed do.

[rusk2003]

9. I did not say that

I just think people who are not in a high risk group or who do not need them on their job should be allowed to pack heat when they leave their home or place of residence.
There are non lethel defence avalible which would be just as effective as a firearm in defending yourself.

[DoNotRefill]

11. So people who are not in a high risk group....

should have fewer rights than people in high risk groups? How elitist of you.

Tell you what....why not extend your statements to the freedom of speech? Make it so that only people "in the know" can exercise their rights...how does that sound? It sounds pretty fucking pathetic to me. The fact that you would even SUGGEST such a plan makes me wonder if you are really a Democrat at all.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Ergotron]

40. I did not say that

There are non lethel defence avalible which would be just as effective as a firearm in defending yourself.

Really? Such as pepper spray? You are willing to risk your life and that of your family on a can of kitchen seasoning?

Do you really believe that the six innocent victims of the Chicago killer last month were wishing for a can of pepper spray while they were being executed?

[Java]

52. Risk Groups...

The Elderly and Poor people face a far higher risk of being violently attacked than a celebrity or a politician. Crime statistics have proven that.

[rusk2003]

55. Iam not opposed to the Home Ownership of Firearms

I think that is just fine I just do not like my life to be thretend by some one who dose not know how to properly use a firearm at the mall or grocery store.

[Ergotron]

57. Do you live in a state that allows CCW?

I hope you understand that, no matter where you live, there are already untrained, unlicensed people carrying concealed weapons at the mall and the grocery store. They're called criminals.

In contrast, almost all states that allow concealed carry require the citizen to undergo training in safe and legal use of handguns before they receive their permit...a requirement the criminals do not have to meet.

Your life is threatened every day on the streets and highways because of people who do not know, or just don't care about, properly using an automobile. It's also a fact that more people died last year from mistakes made by doctors than by homicide with a firearm. If you wish to verify my statements, and I hope you take the time to do so, just check out this link. They even have links to their sources of information so you can check into it yourself.

Like any skill or task, the key to firearms safety is training and practice. The gun is the tool, the person is the user...for good or bad.

[Java]

59. Shall Issue CCW States

Many Shall Issue CCW States require a certain amount of training and proficiency with a handgun before the gun owner is issued a license for concealed carry.

[MrBenchley]

60. For at least two (Florida and Urtah?)

it amounts to three hours hanging out at a firing range....

[1a2b3c]

17. I am fairly sure he was joking

:-)

[rusk2003]

25. I was not joking

:bounce:

[slackmaster]

29. You described the discretionary issue system, e.g. California

Dscretionary issue systems are inherently flawed because some cop or bureaucrat has the power to deny OR grant permits on reasons unrelated to real need.

[rusk2003]

31. The soultion to that is to

Limit their power to deny permits and base it on need and the criminal record of the person in question.

[slackmaster]

32. There you go again with the "N" word

Do you actually believe that some cop or bureaucrat is better qualified than you are to determine what your needs are?

Shall-issue laws make the system completely objective. Either you are qualified for a permit or you are not qualified. Nobody has the power to arbitrarily deny you a permit.

[Ergotron]

41. The solution to that is...

The solution is to allow any law-abiding citizen with no criminal record to carry a concealed firearm after they recieve training in the use of said firearm and laws governing their use for self defense.

Important fact that gets lost in a lot of these arguments is that most states already allow open carry of firearms, including rifles and shotguns. It's only when you add the word concealed that so many people get spun up.

[1a2b3c]

65. THere are no permits for CCW in my state.

I was thinking of trying the open carry just to see how it goes.

[Wcross]

12. My life is less valuable?

"Politicans,Celebrities,CorporateExcutives,journalist's,Attorneys,Judges,Law Enforcement,Millatary,Billonairs,Millionairs,Bodygurads, Private Detectives,Security Gurads, People who are being stalked, People in the wittnes protection program, after they have completed a training course."

That is a real elitest attitude!

[demsrule4life]

13. I can't agree with you

With 30 years in law enforcement I have carried along with my duty weapon, tasers, stunguns, mace and pepper sprays. Heavy clothing will stop tasers and stunguns, mace canisters carried a warning that it doesnt work against drunk, drugged or "mental" people. Had a big old countryboy tell me after I sprayed him with pepper spray that If I did it again he would really kick my ass, a kick to the side of the head finally took him down, this after he thumped two other cops, and broke the jaw of a police dog. I dont know what makes you qualified to make this opinion since I doubt you have any personal experiance with lethal or non lethal weapons

[rusk2003]

26. Well I have never used either on a person or Animal

I have been around guns all my life and have shot afew I have also accidently sprayed myself with mace before so I know it stings very badly. Firearms can be useless if the attacker as on a bullet proofvest or helment so I'd say it is a 50/50 chance with lethal and non lethal weapons.

[Ergotron]

42. Reality check people

Firearms can be useless if the attacker as on a bullet proofvest or helment so I'd say it is a 50/50 chance with lethal and non lethal weapons.

If the attacker has the forethought to wear a bulletproof vest and a helmet I doubt he forgot the gun. Do you think this well dressed attacker is going to be stopped by your stun gun?

If you are absolutely certain of the effectiveness of his bulletproof vest I invite you to come on over to the gun range with me. You wear the vest and charge at me...I'll put a couple of 230 grain, copper jacketed hollow point .45 rounds into your vest and well see if that stops you. I'm betting it puts you on your butt and keeps you there long enough for me to escape.

[Superfly]

28. Let's see:

I am a celebrity (at least me wife thinks so) so I'm allowed to carry according to you.

[Ergotron]

39. Doesn't your family or mine deserve the same protections as those above?

All Others should be allowed to carry air tasers,stunguns and peper sprays or other non lethel defence products.

Do you think the gang members intent on beating and raping you will be threatened by your taser or papper spray? Do you honestly believe that only those on your approved list will be carrying guns? It's time to wake up and smell the cordite folks...the bad guys are ALREADY armed. We're playing catch up just to try to level the playing field.

[rusk2003]

53. I guess those who live in a high crime area

should be allowed to carry a firearm as long as it is not carried outside their vehicle and is not allowed near children. But where I live I don't know of any gangs that is not a problem. I would not make a enemy with a gang member anyway so I would not have to worry about getting beat. Anyway I do not think they would be afraid of one person with gun since they useually have several with many guns.

[Ergotron]

56. I don't live in a high crime area but...

Even if you avoid dangerous, high-crime areas, sometimes crime comees to you.

A few months ago I was in a "good" area of town, walking to my car with my wife after seeing a movie. As we approached our car we noticed two men sitting on a curb nearby. One of the men got up, approached us and asked us for "some change or a couple of dollars" so he could "get back home". When I told this man I didn't have anything to give him, he produced a knife from inside his coat and insisted that I hand over my wallet and car keys to him. Also, at this time, his 'friend' got up off of the curb and walked toward the two of us. This is where it gets interesting...for him at least. He showed me his knife again, and I then showed him my everpresent Taurus .45 and asked him, none to politely, to drop the knife. His 'friend', meanwhile, was circling around behind me...where he was introduced to my wife's .32 auto. Both "gentlemen" were kind enough at that point to drop their weapons and, as they turned to leave, ran headlong into an off duty police officer who happened to see what had transpired. He also had a pistol out and pointed at the guy with the knife...Long story short, the two "panhandlers" went BACK to jail for another of their many visits, and my wife and I went home to our children...alive and uninjured.

Just because you live in a "good" neighborhood with no gang members or other criminals doesn't mean you will never face them..on their terms.

One important note: If you are going to own and carry a firearm it is IMPERATIVE that you get proper training in it's safe and legal use. Your life, or that of your loved ones, may someday depend on it.

[rusk2003]

68. Yes but a air taser,stungun ot mace

would have scared them away just as good as a firearm.

[RoeBear]

70. A taser...

...might scare someone away. But watch one of these videos to see if you think a taser is suitable for personal defense: http://www.taser.com/movies/videos.htm

You'll note that the assailants go down like a bag of potatoes but they also get back on their feet in a matter of seconds. And they'll be even more pissed off than before.

[Shanty Oilish]

10. We're a horrible nation because I can protect myself?

That's linked from:

http://www.a-human-right.com/RKBA/staysafe.html

Which I hope you'll read.

[MrBenchley]

16. What a right wing pantload....

In fact, most of those rapists are family members or acquaintances...

"The gun industry's pitch to women is simple: you're a woman; some stranger's going to try and rape you; you'd better buy a handgun. In truth, women are most likely to be victimized by people they know. According to the National Victim Center, 75 percent of all rapes involve offenders known to the victim—including neighbors, friends, husbands, boyfriends, and relatives. Rape in America is a tragedy of youth, with the majority of cases occurring during childhood and adolescence. More than six out of every 10 rapes occur to children and adolescents under the age of 18. According to the Gun Control Act of 1968, persons must be at least 18 years of age to purchase a long gun and 21 years of age to buy a handgun from a licensed dealer. "

http://www.vpc.org/fact_sht/womenfs.htm

[1a2b3c]

18. So since you are more than likely to know your attacker

Theres really no need to defend against attackers you dont know. After all, 75 percent of all rapes involve offenders known to the victim. I mean hell, theres only a 1 in 4 chance you get raped in a parking lot of the mall by someone you dont know, why defend yourself with such minute odds?

[MrBenchley]

19. Peddle that hooey

to someone dumb enough to believe it....

[1a2b3c]

20. Thats kind of what i thought of your original post.

[MrBenchley]

21. Back to your tee pee

[rusk2003]

54. The problem with that is

Since it would proberly be someone she knows then when you are around family,friends,etc you gennerally will feel safe enof not to have a gun handy. So that would kinda be useless. Mace or stun gun, air taser. is more effective and more easy to use mace can be kept in a pocketwhich would be easyilly consealed and avaliable for use.

[iverglas]

36. I've said it before

and I'll say it again.

I have been the victim of a violent sexual assault by a stranger, which occurred during an abduction and included a life-threatening assault and the expectation of death.

I did not have a firearm then, I do not have a firearm now, I did not and do not wish to have a firearm ... and I do not wish to be the poster child for anyone else's agenda.

Anyone who wants to promote the possession of firearms as beneficial to women / potential rape victims should be very clear that s/he is speaking for him/herself, and not for women or potential rape victims.

I don't claim to speak for anyone else, i.e. to represent the interests of any individual or group of individuals, when I advocate restricted access to firearms. On matters of public policy, I speak from what I perceive to be the public interest. I do not automatically place my own interests above the public interest, and I quite simply do not want anyone else placing my interests, as they claim them to be, above the public interest, as I perceive it.

This organization may not do that. But the assertion "gun control protects rapists from disappointments like this" is one that I find absurd and offensive, and do not wish ever to be made on my behalf or on the basis of my experience.

.

[jody]

14. Welcome to DU

Before the Constitution was written or amended, states acknowledged that citizens had certain inalienable rights including the right to defend self and property. The notion of an inalienable right endowed by a Creator is the only protection an individual has against the majority under a democracy. It is a fact that an inalienable right cannot be given away, so that when states ratified the Constitution and Bill of Rights, citizens could not possibly have lost an inalienable right.

"I. That all men are born equally free and independent, and have certain natural, inherent and inalienable rights, amongst which are, the enjoying and defending life and liberty, acquiring, possessing and protecting property,"
AND
"XIII. That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the state;" (Pa Constitution, 28 Sept. 1776)

Today 28 states recognize an individual's "Right to Keep and Bear Arms" (RKBA) for defense of self and state: AL, AR, CO, CT, DE, FL, IN, KY, MI, MS, MO, MT, NE, NV, NH, NM, ND, OK, OR, PA, SD, TX, UT, VT, WA, WV, WI, WY

Another fact is the arms used to “defend self and property” are the same arms used to “defend the state”.

In addition, the states used the Ninth Amendment to protect any inalienable right not enumerated in the first eight amendments.

Summary

Government, i.e. SCOTUS, has ruled that federal, state, and local governments are not obligated to protect an individual,

Government is unable to prevent criminals, who do not have inalienable rights, from keeping and bearing firearms,

Government allows law enforcement officers to keep and bear arms for defense against criminals,

Citizens have an inalienable right to defend self and property against criminals, and firearms are the most efficient and effective choice.

IMO, those who would deny a law-abiding citizen the right to keep and bear arms to exercise their inalienable right to defend self and property are really saying that in their warped mind, law-abiding citizens are less important to society than criminals. :shrug:

[MrBenchley]

15. I agree....

All arming neurotics does is raise crime levels and gun dealers profits....small wonder any time voters get a chance to speak to the issue, they vote it down.

[Wcross]

33. Benchley

Didn't one of my posts get pulled because it implied that some anti's may have mental health issues? That drew anguished reactions from many of the anti's.

So what is this?
"All arming neurotics does is raise crime levels"

If a person is under physciatric care they are already unable to purchase a firearm.

Do you have the credentials to make mental health judgements on people you have not had in your office for an exam? Is there any proof that the majority of the 80 million gun owners are neurotics, or is it just your opinion?

If you are qualified to diagnose 80+ million people at one time without an office visit, you really are a talented Doctor Benchley.

[MrBenchley]

34. Cry us a river, cross

[Wcross]

47. Dr. Benchley?

Where do you practice Doctor? You are qualified to diagnose Neurotic disorders? Are you qualified to diagnose without even an office visit?Bwwwwwwa
Cry me a river of your pantloads.

[MrBenchley]

50. Based on the symptoms exhibited here?

Hahahahahahahahahaha.......

[Wcross]

51. Still unable to back up your diagnosis of 80 million gun owners?

I thought you were full of it, now I know for sure. I guess thats why you produce a "pantload" on every other post.
Good day, Dr. Benchley.

[MrBenchley]

58. Cry me a river, cross

[Ergotron]

61. Good day, Dr. Benchley.

That's why I, and many others, have put Mr. Bench-warmer on ignore.

[MrBenchley]

62. Yeah, surrrrrrrre....

Funny how fast the RKBA crowd flees from facts....

[Wcross]

66. Back it up Doctor

You claim people who understand that carrying arms is a right, are neurotic. Back up the claim with facts. Your one liner's just don't cut it. Where is your FACT to back your claim? You throw words around like "gun nut" and neurotic, to mask the lack of substance.

It sure is hard to flee from facts when they are so well hidden. I don't know which way to run!!!!!

[MrBenchley]

67. Cry me a river, cross

"You throw words around like "gun nut""
You mean you think I'm the only one? Hahahahahahahahaha....

[Wcross]

69. Again, no answer from Benchley

You can't back up your claim of mass neurosis among gun owners- What other claims have you pulled out of thin air? The term Gun nut is a cheap attempt to demonize people that oppose your misguided attempt to take rights away from the American people.

[MrBenchley]

71. No answer needed

Now go snivel to someone who gives a crap, cross.

"The term Gun nut is a cheap attempt to demonize people"
Nope, it's an accurate term to describe the RKBA crowd....which, let's remember, was advocating guns for the blind here not that long ago.

[Name removed]

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[slackmaster]

22. RTC is about fairness, equality, and personal choice

The movement from descretionary issue or "may-issue" to right-to-carry or "shall-issue" laws removes any possibility that concealed-weapons permits will be denied or issued based on political cronyism, graft, or discrimination. States that have adopted RTC laws have objective standards to determine who is and who is not qualified to get one: Minimum age, clean criminal record, classroom instruction, shooting tests, etc.

This chart is out of date because Missouri and Minnesota have gone shall-issue since it was updated.



antiflagdemocrat dazzled us all with hyperbole by writing:

I think it is horrible and shows us what kind of nation we are if people really think that it is neccesary to carry guns everywhere they go!

Nobody is saying it's necessary to carry guns everywhere all the time, but it is true that some people live or work in situations where the kind of personal protection that a gun can provide is appropriate. Right-to-carry laws put that decision back in the hands of individual citizens.

BTW - Here are some stats I pulled from someone's blog. I make no guarantee as to their accuracy:

- "Shall Issue" states (must issue the permits if applicant is not legally disqualified): 36 states, 60.1% population, 60% Electoral College

- "May Issue" states (issuance is at the discretion of law enforcement): 9 states, 28.1% population, 28% Electoral College

- "Will Not Issue" states (forget it): 5 states, 11.8% population, 12% Electoral College

[MrBenchley]

35. Horseshit and hysteria

It's being peddled as a way to cut crime...when in fact it increases crime.

[Ergotron]

43. Concealed carry increases crime?

Mr. Benchly, do you have a source for your information? I would entertain any argument you have based on factual data, but I believe your assessment of the crime rate is in error. Law abiding citizens carrying concealed weapons does not contribute significantly to crime rates. Criminals carrying concealed weapons certainly does though.

[MrBenchley]

44. Sure...

"John Lott's name, meanwhile, has been summoned in statehouses across the land this year as still more legislatures have passed the concealed-carry laws that Lott says are good for society -- despite the mounting evidence that they are nothing of the sort. As Stanford Law School professor John J. Donohue and Yale Law School professor Ian Ayres have shown in an exhaustive analysis of concealed-carry laws, for instance, there is now more evidence to suggest that these laws increase crime than to reduce it.
Donohue and Ayres, of course, have faced their own version of orchestrated attack from the pro-gunners, including the following passage that appeared on the Internet last September, when their work first appeared: "The Ayres and Donohue piece is a joke."
The author? Mary Rosh. "

http://www.jointogether.org/gv/news/features/reader/0,2061,566717,00.html 

Florida was the first state to pass an idiotic CCW law in 1987 under the theory that it would cut violent crime....between 1987 and 1993 (when the Brady Law was passed) violent crime jumped 31% (the violent crime rate jumped 17%). After 1993 and Brady, violent crime began to decline nationwide...but it declined in Florida at a slower rate than it declined in states with sane gun laws.

[Spoonman]

45. Oh please,

That's a load of shit and you know it.
Crime in Florida was at an all time high in direct correlation to the increased importation of cocaine!
After the reduction of cocaine use began in 1993, crime everywhere began to drop.
Don't bother replying, cause it's falling on deaf, but informed, ears.

If you can come up with ANYTHING credible, do shoot of a flare.


The lesson endeth for today.

[slackmaster]

46. The connection that nobody ever attempts to make in this discussion

Crimes directly attributable to people abusing their licensed, concealed weapons.

If that's not happening (and nobody has presented any evidence that it is), it doesn't matter what the overall violent crime rate of a state does or how it compares to other states.

All the opponents of liberalized carry have to offer is irrational fear and cries of "Mary Rosh, Mary Rosh!"

[MrBenchley]

49. That's because it is horsecrap

"Crimes directly attributable to people abusing their licensed, concealed weapons."
Gee, but the argument is that crime is supposed to drop over all....

"All the opponents of liberalized carry have to offer is irrational fear and cries of "Mary Rosh, Mary Rosh!""
No, that's you proponents peddling that..

[MrBenchley]

48. Peddle it to someone dumb enough to buy it

"The lesson endeth for today."
And all we learn is how dishonest the RKBA crowd can be.....

[Spoonman]

63. Such a brilliant reply

And original too.

You constantly fail to learn anything.
Crack came into popularity, and sparked a huge wave of crime everywhere.
Your beloved Brady Law just happened to be passed when the popularity began to fade and with the stricter law enforcement and, mandatory sentencing laws.

I guess ignorance is bliss.

[MrBenchley]

64. And all that was needed...

Now go peddle your rubbish to someone dumb enough to buy it....try the right wing idiots over at highroadrage.com

[Wcross]

73. Come on Spoonman!

Every message board needs a clown! I get real entertainment value from his one liners.

I have always suspected him of being something other than he appears to be.

[1a2b3c]

74. This might be true

but its still annoying. Atleast thinktank/whatever the last name she came up with, provided dumbass links to the VPC and MMM that we could all laugh at.

[Township75]

75. This guy once claimed...

to have donated to VPC, MMM and The Brady Campaing to Lose Elections...but I doubt he did. It is obvious from these effectiveness of these groups, and their dwindling power/membership that no one is giving them money.

[1a2b3c]

76. Thats cause their members are all in prison

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=21617

‘Million Mom’ activist convicted in shooting
Bereaved mother shot wrong man after son killed

[MrBenchley]

78. Might as well launch these piddly childish attacks, boys

It's not like you got anything resembling a FACT or an ARGUMENT to support your position.

[Wcross]

81. If facts were crap

You are indeed full of "facts"

[MrBenchley]

88. But facts are facts

and crap is what the RKBA crowd is peddling....

[Ergotron]

37. Right to Carry

I think it is horrible and shows us what kind of nation we are if people really think that it is neccesary to carry guns everywhere they go!

It IS sad that people feel they need to carry guns. However, it would be foolish to think that the criminals won't have guns so why should we be at a disadvantage? The police carry guns to level the playing field when dealing with criminals...should the rest of us be entitled to any less?

Gun control is advocated by those who are naive enough to think that more laws will stop crime. It is already illegal to use a gun to commit a crime but it happens every day all across America. As cliche and extremist as it may sound, I feel it accurate to point out that if they outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns. The scum on our streets are NOT going to surrender their guns to the police...at least not willingly.

[bearfan454]

79. I have a carry permit

I like it. I will not be beaten to death after I call 911.

[iverglas]

82. just thought I'd mention

Tombstones don't show up in my browser, unfortunately; they always make such fun viewing. So I just assume from the big white space on the "profile" page that one got applied here.

Pretty funny. An obvious gun-nut provocateur appears in some pretty moth-eaten sheep's clothing, all his/her true colours leaking through the holes, and successfully provokes a bunch of frothing from some other "RKBA enthusiasts".

Youse guys can't even recognize one of your own when you see it??

Me, I alerted on the fella soon as I saw him/her.

.

[FlashHarry]

89. Locking.

This has degenerated into an acrimonious attack-fest. Feel free to start a new right-to-carry thread. Again, I ask that you think twice before you hit 'post message' to ask yourself if you're attacking the person (not allowed) or the group (allowed) or the idea (allowed).

Thanks.

:hi:

FlashHarry
DU Moderator