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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-07-05 03:44 PM
Original message
Anti-semitism warning from Chief Rabbi
The Chief Rabbi, Sir Jonathan Sacks, has warned of a new wave of anti-Semitism, saying that "there have been times, the first in my memory, when it has been uncomfortable to be a Jew in Britain".

His outspoken comments, reported in today's Jewish Chronicle, have been included in a special message being read out to congregations over the Jewish New Year.

In the message, Sir Jonathan cites calls, backed by Sir Iqbal Sacranie, the secretary-general of the Muslim Council of Britain, to abolish Holocaust Memorial Day because it is offensive to Muslims.

He also refers to remarks with "anti-Semitic undertones" by public figures, the threatened academic boycott of Israel earlier this year and Church debates over divestment from Israel.

....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/10/07/nrabbi07.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/10/07/ixhome.html
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-07-05 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. abolish Holocaust Memorial Day because it is offensive to Muslims.
How can it be offensive to Muslims? Because the majority of Muslims were allied with the Nazis? The Holocaust has nothing to do with Muslims at all.

The Holocaust Memorial Day is event specific. As bad as the oppression of the Palestinians might be, it doesn't compare, nor does Bosnia or even Iraq.

The Holocaust Memorial commemorates 12 million systematically murdered, including 6 million Jews, 2 million Gypsies, one million gays, and three million assorted others -- labor leaders, communists, Poles, Russians.

If they want to have another day that commemorates genocides in general, fine. But the Nazi Holocaust deserves to stand alone. And anyone who claims it to be a Jewish PR thing is anti-semitic.
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Lexingtonian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-07-05 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I'm sure you've seen all the homosexuals, Russians, Gypsies,

Polish officers, German resistance fighters, Christian leaders, labor leaders, communists, commisars, captured soldiers, etc. commemorated in proportion to their numbers.

Yeah, right.

There has been a serious use of the Holocaust to promote militant Zionist ends. It's not an accident that heads of state and such visiting Israel are always taken to Yad Vashem first.

Middle Eastern Muslims don't think they have anything to do with the Holocaust, so the Holocaust-based utilitarian arguments for Zionism that Israelis use when arguing about national and religious rights to the land in dispute strike them as irrelevant. Without acceptance of the Holocaust as implicit excusable motivation or justification, the behavior of the State of Israel toward Palestinians is inexplicable or just plain immoralist on its face.

I'm not saying all these points of view and attitudes and actions that result from them are particularly legitimate or justified, on any side. They're all superficial, humanly speaking, and naive and vain. But the politics between the various groups runs on their basis- every more intricate and fair analysis creates too much moral and intellectual ambiguity, or admission of there being no fair solutions. And all sides have rage that demands to be expressed in some fashion.

In practice the trauma- emotional need and animal pain- has long ago overwhelmed intellectual and moral integrity. That's what makes I/P the problem it is.

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UncleSepp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-07-05 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
2. Don't know much about life in Britain, but I'd believe it
I hear enough people speaking of Israeli policies and not making a distinction between the actions of some people in the country of Israel and the entirety of the Jewish people that it makes me uncomfortable, and I'm not Jewish.

I hear assumptions made about what Jews believe - not to the level of the blood libel, but the basic concept that all Jews believe, think, and act alike. That's the core of any prejudice, isn't it, believing in the sameness of a population? Unfortunately, I don't hear things like "Jews believe in charity" and "Jews believe in acting in a positive way to make the world better". I hear "Jews believe they're special and superior". I hear disbelief at the idea that there are poor Jews, Jews who work in factories, Jews who live on farms, Jews who drive trucks... basically I hear disbelief that anyone who's Jewish isn't a lawyer, a doctor, or an academic. I hear "Jews are like Christians except they don't believe in Jesus". I hear a lot of ignorant things, and it's a willful ignorance - one can't even argue with such ignorance. There's no desire to know anything other than what the person in question knows that just ain't so. I hear all these kinds of things, and what disturbs me the most is that I hear them from peace activists, leftists, people who identify themselves as being anti-bigotry and pro-tolerance.

Most of all, it disheartens me to hear how deep anti-Jewish sentiment runs in the Socialist movement in the US. Even the anti-Israel sentiment is largely based on a selective reading of Israeli and Palestinian history that leaves out anything that could possibly be interpreted as good or hopeful. I see certain vocal socialist segments using Israeli people and Palestinian people as puppets in their propaganda shows, and the same I see being done by the radical nationalist Islamists and even by fundamentalist Christians. The concept that Jewish people, whether living in Israel or living anywhere else in the world, are people and not symbols seems now to be less common than the alternative.

It sickens me to think that the lever of anti-Semitism is still there to be used to move populations, and that it exists independent of political stripe. It still is possible to pull out "Blame the Jews" when something goes wrong, and have people fall for it. Sometimes, I just want to put my head in my hands and scream.
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Andromeda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 05:48 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Yep, I know what you mean...
AuntJen.

"Most of all, it disheartens me to hear how deep anti-Jewish sentiment runs in the Socialist movement in the US."

I have to wonder how we got to this place.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 05:59 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Let me just say...
...BRAVA!

Such a nice post and so true in many ways! It is heartening to know one doesn't have to be Jew to see "the writing on the wall."

In the paraphrased words of Chris Rock, "I love America. After 9-11, it was "I am American, I am American." Fuck the terrorists! And that was cool! "I am American, I am American." Fuck the (I can't remember)! And that was cool! Then it was "I am American, I am American!" Fuck the Immigrants! And I got a little worried. Because, "Fuck the Niggers and the Jews" is not far behind....that train is never late!"
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. 100% Right. NT
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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Actually the order appears to be going
terrorists
arabs/muslims
immigrants
blacks
...

yes, your point is well made in that this seems to be a very well traveled path.

And yes, that train is never far behind.

L-
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I think you maybe right...
It is why I had to say "paraphrase." I couldn't remember the actual skit in its entirety. It is from Chris Rock's comedy stand-up show "Never Scared." It is a really funny show...you should catch it on HBO or rent it sometime. You will bust a gut, especially is riff about Bush!
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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I'll have to watch it
You may have gotten the skit correct. I was making an aside about how things seem to be proceeding for a few of the harder core RW'ers in the US.

L-
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