Israel says Syria regime change in world's interest

[sabra]

http://www.africasia.com/services/news/newsitem.php?area=mideast&item=051014123757.d82jzb6v.php

Israel says Syria regime change in world's interest

Israeli Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom said Friday it was in the world's interest to have a regime change in Syria, which he accused of being "up to its neck" in terror.

"Our interest is to tell the world that Syria is implicated up to its neck in terrorism, a terrorism that is directed not just against Israel but against coalition forces in Iraq," he told public radio.

"And this is why it is in the interest of the entire world that there is another state in Syria, one that is freer and more democratic," said Shalom.

The foreign minister's comments come amid the continuing fallout from the death on Wednesday of Syrian interior minister and former strongman in Lebanon, Ghazi Kanaan.

[Lerkfish]

1. Syria thinks Israel regime change in world's interest

why should we consider important any country wanting to regime change another? oh, wait, that's right...when it fits into our own world domination plans.


:puke:

[DoYouEverWonder]

2. I think regime change

in the USA and in Israel is much more important.

[Colorado Blue]

41. Oh fer pete's sake. I'll agree that Bush is a horror but Sharon

has moved 180 degrees, has ceded safety and territory and is standing behind the formation of a Palestinian state.

So nu?

[Algorem]

3. PNAC runs Israel too?

[4MoreYearsOfHell]

5. nope...

Israel runs PNAC...

[Behind the Aegis]

22. And PNAC runs the US....

...clever way of getting around the whole "Israel is running the US" 'no-no!' :eyes:

[Jim Sagle]

70. And since I run PNAC, I guess I can quit my job!

:beer:

[Coastie for Truth]

34. Nope - it is not AIPAC - it is APIPAC

APIPAC = AMERICAN PETROLEUM INSTITUTE POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE AT $3.04 POINT 9 A GALLON

APIPAC = AMERICAN PETROLEUM INSTITUTE POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE

Let's look at APIPAC

1. Link to , Exxon Mobil's voice in Washington, Texaco Chevron's voice in Washington, Conoco Phillips' voice in Washington, BP's voice in Washington, even poor little Halliburton's voice in Washington.

2. Link to


3. Let's look at their , as in secret meetings with Rove and Halliburton former CEO Cheney -- $3.04 point 9 a gallon. The policy is drill, drill, drill, drill everywhere, and tax breaks for drilling everywhere.

4. And of course, what would a DC lobby be without for drilling everywhere

5. As to Global Climate Change, and increasing severity of Hurricanes, and melting of the polar ice caps .

6. As to the Arab embargo of not just Israel, but of Jewish, US citizens, employed solely in the US, by US corporations in their US operations - why

even though the and is as hell!

And let's look at PNAC.

Have you actually read all of those 120 some odd, turgid Adobe Acrobat PDF files? Here's a . I have.

And when you get past William Kristol's wet dreams - it is all about projecting American power to assert hegemony over oil to assure American Soccer Moms gasoline to drive their little kiddoes around in Hummers.

It is all about AMERICAN BLOOD FOR OIL - and it has been going on for over 120 years -- read -- F. William Engdahl, A Century Of War: Anglo-American Oil Politics and the New World Order and the .

I have only been in the (alternative, renewable, and green) energy industry for 30+ of the last 40+ years -- and before that I was a safety and environmental regulator.

[LatinoSocialist]

4. World says Israel regime change in world's interest /NT

[robcon]

6. I agree. Syria is a police state, and is sponsoring terrorism.

The world would be better without Assad, or the Baath party, as the head of Syria.

[Tempest]

7. The U.S. is turning into a police state and is sponsoring terrorism

Remove the log from your eye.

[The Stranger]

10. I think that they would simply rather not have Syria or Syrians at all.

They could simply expand the Golan Heights settlements north and east.

Didn't Golda say that there was "no such thing" as a Palestinian?

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

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[wuushew]

15. I have no beef against Syria

In the wake of Sept. 11, Syria cooperated with the CIA in passing on information on Islamist radicals suspected of having connections with the Al Qaeda network of Osama bin Laden. Damascus has little sympathy for Islamist militants, perceiving them as a potential threat to the secular regime. Many Islamist radicals arrested in Europe and the US after the Sept. 11 attacks are believed to have been identified from information provided by Damascus.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0514/p01s04-wome.html

[eissa]

17. Yeah, of course

Then they can have a theocratic regime just like our new democracy in Iraq. My family is from Syria, and trust me, they'll keep a secular Baath government over a fundamentalist regime or an American puppet any day.

[ckramer]

8. Not again!

Why should US soldiers die for Israel?

[SillyGoose]

12. Thank you....my sentiments exactly. (n/t)

[Coastie for Truth]

36. Why should American kids die so American Soccer Moms

with big butts and small brains can drive their spoiled brats around suburbia in Hummers?

That oil doesn't come from Texas anymore - a big bunch of it comes from the ME -- and the PNAC plan (read all 120 documents) is to kill American kids to protect soccer moms' oil.

[LynnTheDem]

9. Dear Israel; every year we give you billions in defense. YOU DO IT.

And then YOU fight Syria and Iran and China and all the rest of the mideast BY YOURSELF.

Have fun! :hi:

[Poll_Blind]

16. Amen to that! n/t

PB

[wordout]

11. "Our interest is to deceive the world" -Silva Shallowthroat

[hogwyld]

13. You gotta be kidding me

Isn't that what Israel said about Iraq too?

[donkeyotay]

14. What a happy coincidence that the "world's interest" coincides with

The Likud's and the GOP's.

[Coastie for Truth]

37. No - According to PNAC

the world's interest coincides with "Big Oil" and General Motors" and Scoocer Moms with Hummers.

[makeanoise]

18. Of course they think that my dears....

It's already written in the PNAC....
Project for The New American Century...(spelling ?)

Iraq was in there, Iran, it's all there...Syria too...
Check it out if you haven't....but the premise is...
They want to redraw the ENTIRE middle east....

Now, will we let them get away with it?
Not me!

[Coastie for Truth]

38. Almost right

I have read all of the turgid bull crap in PNAC -- it's is all about "Projecting Power" (PhD buzz for military agression) to "assert American influence" to protect "Our" oil.

The PNAC crew - and "Big Oil" and "The Big Three" really believe that the world's oil fields are America's birthright. Read that PNAC stuff -- all of it.

[Cults4Bush]

19. That would be Likudniks not Israel. Israelis aren't exactly all skeeved

to get into a full blown war with anyone.

Those freaky Likud whore are itching though, just like their PNAC'ing counterparts here.

Fuck 'em.

[Behind the Aegis]

21. FINALLY!

Someone gets it! I love how Israel is a monolith here, especially at DU, where we (most of us) are Americans railing against OUR government. However, mention Israel and the parade of "haters," "Israel runs the US," and "We are fighting Israel's wars" crew trot out on cue! Fuck radicalism here, in Israel, and Syria!

[Coastie for Truth]

39. I can forgive the Texan and the Michigander Progressives

but if you look at our foreign poilicy it is dominated by the Monolithic United States of GM-Ford-Chrysler-ExxonMobil-TexacoChevron-ConocoPhillips-BP-Shell-Oxy as one big monolith tp seize the world's oil for the Monolithic United States of GM-Ford-Chrysler-ExxonMobil-TexacoChevron-ConocoPhillips-BP-Shell-Oxy.

[Colorado Blue]

45. I think you're wrong. The Likud is moving more and more to

the center, Sharon - who led the withdrawal from Gaza - no easy matter - has been reaffirmed as their leader. Like any political party, the Likud represents a spectrum of ideas and interests.

Right now, only the Likud has the muscle to have moved Israel out of Gaza and they will be instrumental in the creation of a Palestinian state, which Sharon has avowed as a personal goal and a goal for Israel. Of course it would be nice if the Hamasniks would stop firing rockets and murdering people, including other Palestinians.

I don't think you have been keeping up with events.

[thebigidea]

20. better find a better euphemism, then. "Regime change" is damaged goods

leadership reorientation?

command realignment?


warmongering bloodlust?

[Poll_Blind]

24. How about a "Freedom Jamboree!" (with blood and decapitations) n/t

PB

[IA_Seth]

29. Lol

Not that it's a funny subject...but I can actually see this coming from our media...


"And tonight at 10, will President Bush move forward with the proposed Leadership Reorientation in Syria?"

[Voltaire99]

23. No one on earth is listening to this vicious colonial power.

Except, of course, the bought-and-sold Democratic and Republican parties.

One day, perhaps, Americans will rid themselves of these simulacra of representation and try the real thing.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Jose Diablo]

25. Gosh, isn't Syria part of the 'axis of evil'?

Why am I not surprised Sharon would want this? In the worlds best interest naturally. Which world would that be?

[Poll_Blind]

27. I hear we're going to have to make it "The swastika of terror" with...

...the fourth arm being Syria. Come on, you know there's a Whitehouse underling who took two terms in Graphic Design who's just itching for a chance to get ahead and please the boss!

PB

[Behind the Aegis]

28. and the "boss" is?! n/t

[Poll_Blind]

30. Boosh! Or, ultimately, the octopoid demon god Cthulhu n/t

PB

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

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[Colorado Blue]

54. I think, this post proves Pelsar's point quite clearly.

EOM.

[manic expression]

55. And how so? n/t

[Coastie for Truth]

58. Are you serious??

Check out

DO YOU HAVE THE SLIGHTEST WHAT THE POWER OF THE OIL AND AUTO LOBBIES ARE? DO YOU?

DO YOU KNOW WHAT THIS WAR IS ALL ABOUT---

OIL

I do -I worked on photovoltaics and on electric cars.

And in the scheme of things Israel wouldn't make a good pimple on Turd Blossom's left butt cheek,

[manic expression]

60. Funny how

those aims are so similar. Coincidence? I think not.

And you are greatly underestimating the power that pro-Israeli organizations have in America, as well as the way they carry out their goals.

[Zhade]

32. Yeah, this is real helpful.

Unlike conservative idiots who agree with this sentiment, I actually understand that this is not going to help anyone.

[pelsar]

35. in the interest of intelligent discussion...

this "discussion" should probably be ignored given the above posts....

[Coastie for Truth]

40. In the interest of intelligent discussion and dialog

the appenders should probably actually read READ READ the sanitary land fill of all hundered and something PNAC documents. Here is the link -----

And then DU's Energy and Environment Forum

And then DU's Peak Oil Forum http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=266|Click Your Mouse Pointer Here>

And try some serious reading that is (Oh My Gosh) Not on the web--
* The Long Emergency: Surviving the End of the Oil Age, Climate Change, and Other Converging Catastrophes of the Twenty-first Century by James Howard Kunstler, and

* The Hydrogen Economy by Jeremy Rifkin,

* A Century Of War: Anglo-American Oil Politics and the New World Order by F. William Engdahl

* Twilight in the Desert: The Coming Saudi Oil Shock and the World Economy by Matthew R. Simmons

* Beyond Oil : The View from Hubbert's Peak by Kenneth S. Deffeyes

* Hubbert's Peak : The Impending World Oil Shortage by Kenneth S. Deffeyes

* The Prize : The Epic Quest for Oil, Money & Power by Daniel Yergin

* House of Bush, House of Saud : The Secret Relationship Between the World's Two Most Powerful Dynasties by Craig Unger

* An Introduction to Economic Geology and Its Environmental Impact by A. M. Evans



Think, read, and explore -- knee jerk progressives are as funny as knee jerk concervatives (e.g., Intelligent Designers, and Lysenkoists).

[Colorado Blue]

50. I couldn't agree more. What a bunch of BS, not to mention

a an absolutely astonishing lack of awareness of what the Syrian goverment is really all about.

You know what I think? People don't give a good goddam about Arabs, or if they should have decent lives and fair government. They just like to hate Israel.

I wonder if people are aware, the average income in Syria is under $5,000/year? Or that the Ba'ath Party was founded by agents of Vichy France?

Nah.

[Englander]

76. Woo-hoo! It's the return of the Nazi Arabs!!

--Or that the Ba'ath Party was founded by agents of Vichy France?--

Evidence, please? That doesn't correlate with the history I've read,
could you elaborate?

____________


"Timeline : Syria;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/country_profiles/827580.stm

[Englander]

77. ~~~~~

[Violet_Crumble]

78. The Ba'ath Party was founded by agents of Vichy France???

That's a new one to me. Could you point me to something I could read on it, because what with me being someone who has such an astonishing lack of awareness of all things Middle East, and only getting what I know from tv and Wikipedia, I may have missed it! ;)

Violet...

[Violet_Crumble]

79. Kick...

Reading a few posts in other threads tonight reminded me that I still have so much to learn about this particular topic and I'm hoping I'll return to be met with a flurry of links :)

Violet...

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

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[Englander]

81. Thanks for the history lesson -

which is pretty much irrelevant to the original claim;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=102323&mesg_id=102380

--Or that the Ba'ath Party was founded by agents of Vichy France?--

To quote the famous Greek poet;

~D'oh!!~

[Behind the Aegis]

82. more history...

The Arab Socialist Baath Party, to give it its full name, was founded in Syria in the 1940s by a small group of French-educated Syrian intellectuals - Michel Aflaq, a Greek Orthodox, and Salah al-Din al-Bitar, a Sunni Muslim.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2886733.stm

Perhaps not founded, but certainly based in the powers of Vichy France.

[Violet_Crumble]

83. So 'agents of Vichy France' didn't found the Baath Party after all...

Thanks for the totally irrelevent links that didn't answer the question I asked. If you do locate anything that provides any evidence that agents of Vichy France founded the Baath Party, feel free to pop in with them...

Violet...

[Colorado Blue]

42. OK: here's little note to all of you knee-jerkers. Please

study the history of modern Syria and try to learn something about the Ba'ath party and just exactly how people live in Syria, before you go all nuts about Israel.

If you REALLY care about people, you'll see that this is a good idea. Or maybe you just hate Israel so much you don't give a damn that people are living in a dictatorship, where minorities and dissidents are ruthlessly suppressed - hell - I had an Assyrian friend who got arrested for carrying a pocket calculator. And this is where people go to be tortured when they are subject to "extraordinary rendition" - Syria, and also that other great center of mercy, Egypt.

I've found that people are all in favor of democracy until Israel suggests it for the Arab people, then they freak out.

Why? What's up with this?

[thebigidea]

44. ya don't think a recent "regime change" that went wrong concerns people?

could it be that we've heard this song before, and don't particularly like the tune?

I don't think anyone has a problem with democracy in the Arab world - its the whole invading-occupying stuff that tends to make us a bit squeamish. You don't think that's understandable?

You don't think that the example of Iraq would make most folks uncomfortable with the phrase "regime change?"

[Coastie for Truth]

47. Failed because it was a "Big Oil" and Southern Methodist

planned regime change.

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[thebigidea]

49. So who would you prefer to run future regime change projects?

What a bizzare answer. My questions were perfectly reasonable. Don't you think the Iraq example makes people uncomfortable with further regime changin'?

[Coastie for Truth]

53. I would prefer

that we didn't have a "Big Oil- Oil Field Services - Refinery Construction Administration" --- that was in bed with the Saudis and the American Petroleum Institute, and the North American Automobile Manufacturers Association -- and that was pissing away American lives ot seize ever more oil for the American Petroleum Institute to drill and refine -- to feed the SUVs and pick up trucks made by the North American Automobile Manufacturers Association to satisfy ever more big butted soccer moms chauffeuring around ever more kids.

I am very uncomfortable with ever more wars for oil.

BTW - I have spent 3/4's of career in alternative, renewable, and green energy.

[thebigidea]

56. yeah, I've heard that all before. But you're not answering my questions

You can go on with your cut and pasting with someone else, I suppose. And the oh-so-hilarious sarcasm. Good night!

[Colorado Blue]

52. I absolutely share those concerns. I was 100% against the

Bush strategy in Iraq. Of course, Reagan/Bush helped create the Iraqi situation - this nightmare goes back decades.

These countries were created by fiat, by agreements between Britain and France, after the fall of the Ottoman Empire. They really didn't take into account tribal, ethnic and religious patterns. And, they were born into one of the most violent centuries this planet has ever seen, and have been the object of proxy wars between the West and the Soviet Union, as well as the fact that many in their ruling classes were influenced by Vichy France and Nazi Germany.

So where has that left the people? We can't ignore them. Nor can we ignore the danger that the weak regime of Assad presents - apparently unable to control the terror groups who reside in Syria, and apparently involved to some extent in attempting to destabilize Lebanon.

Anglo/American policy under Bush and Blair hasn't been so good (huge understatement) It was clearly driven by the oil industry - not that this is new - it has been the dominant force in Anglo/American geostrategic policy since the late 19th century.

And, beyond the initial military success, the Iraqi policy under Bush has demonstrated NO comprehension of the people or how to help manage the peace or how, in fact, they'd react to being invaded (a kindergartner could have told them THAT).

But the goal of establishing open societies, better economic opportunity and better conditions for minorities is a just one. It isn't wrong to talk about it, or try to figure out how to help create better conditions for people.

[thebigidea]

57. name me ONE country who can "control terror groups"

[Coastie for Truth]

59. Saudi Arabis - they control the money

As Deep Throat told W and B- "Follow the Money"

[thebigidea]

61. not doing a very good job, apparently.

what with the stream of attacks and shootouts over the past few years.

I don't see why someone expects shithole tyrannies in the middle east to do what the biggest superpowers in the world can't: "control terror groups."

[Coastie for Truth]

62. Maybe the Saudis want a certain level of terrorism

as an escape valve for the angry young men whose birth right (oil in the ground) they have stolen and spent on all manner of debauchery.

As soon as these angry young men turn on their own autocrats we will see a civil war that will more then match the assassination of the Romanovs.

[thebigidea]

63. funny, Bin Laden says the same kind of stuff.

[Coastie for Truth]

65. And the liberals and progressives said the same thing 100 years ago.

Have you ever read the fiction of Charles Dickens? Or George Bernard Shaw's Major Barbara" or Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle".

Have you actually read Marx (not "about" Marx, but Marx).

[Colorado Blue]

64. I agree, it's pretty difficult. But on the other hand nations

don't actually have to provide them with headquarters, nu?

As for your other question, which is actually a very important one - who SHOULD provide regime changes - obviously and ideally, the people of a state.

In democratic states, unless there's widespread and endemic corruption - which is a growing fear in the US of course - voters create regime change. But in dictatorships, especially dictatorships that rule by fear, people don't have this power. They're literally brutalized. This is one of the problems in Iraq. I watched a program on CSPAN the other day, four people who'd been in Iraq and written books about it. The population there is traumatized from all the years of Saddam and now of course, they're getting war from the US and Co. and also terrorism. At this point all WE can do is try to ride shotgun until the new government can take over and eventually, civil discourse replaces violence. Unfortunately in the Middle East that might take awhile. The oh-so-vilified Israelis have been trying to get people to the table to talk, one on one and not in the form of en bloc ultimatums, backed up by terror and war, for 57 years.

Sudan is a government that is badly in need of regime change, if Darfur is any indication. But nobody is doing anything. The people CAN'T do anything, in dictatorships. So in those cases, is it truly wrong for people on the outside to intervene? The US FINALLY intervened in Bosnia, years after EU should have done something, instead of watching peacefully while Yugoslavia was torn to pieces and a worldclass city - Sarejevo - was simply shelled to bits.

It's a difficult question. Is it more wrong to intervene, risking more violence and hurt to innocent people, than to just let the situation go along, again hurting innocent people? I myself wish SOMEBODY had stopped the Nazis, before it was too late and they grew too powerful to contain.

[pelsar]

66. in a nutshell....

to interfer or not to...damned if you do and damned if you dont. If you do...then when?...and if you fail, there will be a lot of "told you so"...and if you succeed...you will be the 'bully"

the easiest thing to do, is nothing as in dfur today...the most difficult is iraq..inbetween is bosnia...and so far non of the solutions seem to be doing so well.

[Englander]

75. Ironic, much?

The whole concept that any pro-Israeli, US citizens should condemn
a country for being a location where 'terrorwists' are sent, to be
tortured, where human-rights groups are not welcome, where hundreds
of suspects are arrested & held for months, without being charged,
& where there's limited access to the benefits of democracy, really
is a prime example of selective outrage.

--If you REALLY care about people, you'll see that this is a good idea.--

Wow. "Liberals for regime change". Whatever next?

__________________

Amnesty International on Syria;

http://web.amnesty.org/library/eng-syr/index

[Coastie for Truth]

46. Or is the war a "Southern Methodist War On Islam?"

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

MOST AMERICANS must realize by now that President Bush will claim almost anything to justify the constantly escalating tragedy of his Iraq policy. So atop his long refusal to drop the implied linkage of Saddam Hussein to the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, Bush's vision of an attempt to create a "radical Islamic empire that spans from Spain to Indonesia" is not surprising.

The president shared his scary thought in a speech last week to the National Endowment for Democracy in Washington. He thus sought to inject the fear of total jihadist victory across the Muslim world into the argument for keeping major U.S. military forces fighting and dying in the unpopular mess his 2003 invasion of Iraq has created.

This Bush approach to shoring up fast-eroding public support for the war has at least a couple of problems. It undercuts the moderate Muslims who must form the basis of any realistic hope for spreading democracy in their parts of the world. The frightful terms with which Bush warns of rampant Islamism recall the "yellow peril" that once obsessed U.S. opponents of immigration from Asia, and the tales of Mohammedan conquest that fueled the Crusades. Bush's simplistic focusing of American distrust on the very peoples he seeks to enlist for democratic reform -- making them part of the supposed future "empire" -- is no way to win friends in that part of the world.

The other big problem is the realism of Bush's portrayal of triumphant Islamic extremism. The Osama bin Ladens have not managed to take over a tiny Persian Gulf fiefdom much less an actual country in their regions of maximum strength. Their making common cause with the Taliban of Afghanistan was a disaster for both groups, with bin Laden still on the run.

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

Bush is a Southern Methodist.

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

Laura and the "Bush Women" (Harriet Miers, Kathryn Hughes) are not just Southern Methodists - but graduates of Southern Methodist University.

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

So, the question, is the Iraqi War a Southern Methodist War On Islam. Obvious enough for the San Francisco Chronicle Edirotial Page Editor to raise the issue.

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

And what has been the role of Oral Roberts? and Franklyn Graham? and Pat Roberston? and Jerry Falwell? and James Dobson? and Phyllis Schafly?



:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[newyorican]

67. Amen corner sure has it's panties in a wad...

evident by the repeated pathetic attempts to divert the discussion or get the thread locked.

:popcorn:

[bemildred]

68. Reminds me of High School.

A great honking non-sequitur in the ministers argument, too.

"Our interest is to tell the world that Syria is implicated up to its neck in terrorism, a terrorism that is directed not just against Israel but against coalition forces in Iraq," he told public radio.

"And this is why it is in the interest of the entire world that there is another state in Syria, one that is freer and more democratic," said Shalom.

1.) "Syria is implicated up to its neck in terrorism"
2.) "a terrorism that is directed not just against Israel but
against coalition forces in Iraq"

Therefore:

"And this is why it is in the interest of the entire world that there is another state in Syria"

I could see how it would be in the interests of say the "coalition forces in Iraq", but not the entire World.

I'm sort of wondering what the new state in Syria will be called too,
but maybe he means a new government.

[Coastie for Truth]

69. In addition to the popcorn have some

Nestles Crunch - repackaged for the Asian-Pacific Market.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

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[barb162]

71. "Syria Accountabilty Act":co-sponsored by John Kerry, Barb Boxer

and Mr. Santorumn in 2003 because Syria is such a quaint- wonderful -charming- darling- sweet-little honey of a country. Here's a copy and some of the findings:
"SEC. 2. FINDINGS.

Congress makes the following findings:

(1) United Nations Security Council Resolution 1373 (September 28, 2001) mandates that all states `refrain from providing any form of support, active or passive, to entities or persons involved in terrorist acts', take `the necessary steps to prevent the commission of terrorist acts', and `deny safe haven to those who finance, plan, support, or commit terrorist acts'.

(2) The Government of Syria is currently prohibited by United States law from receiving United States assistance because it is listed as a state sponsor of terrorism.

(3) Although the Secretary of State lists Syria as a state sponsor of terrorism and reports that Syria provides `safe haven and support to several terrorist groups', fewer United States sanctions apply with respect to Syria than with respect to any other country that the Secretary lists as a state sponsor of terrorism.

(4) Terrorist groups, including Hizballah, Hamas, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command, maintain offices, training camps, and other facilities on Syrian territory and operate in areas of Lebanon occupied by the Syrian armed forces and receive supplies from Iran through Syria.

(5) United Nations Security Council Resolution 520 (September 17, 1982) calls for `strict respect of the sovereignty, territorial integrity, unity and political independence of Lebanon under the sole and exclusive authority of the Government of Lebanon through the Lebanese Army throughout Lebanon'.

(6) More than 20,000 Syrian troops and security personnel occupy much of the sovereign territory of Lebanon, thereby exerting undue influence upon its government and undermining its political independence.

(7) Since 1990 the Senate and House of Representatives have passed seven bills and resolutions calling for the withdrawal of Syrian armed forces from Lebanon.

(8) Large and increasing numbers of the Lebanese people from across the political spectrum in Lebanon have mounted peaceful and democratic calls for the withdrawal of the Syrian Army from Lebanese soil.

(9) Israel has withdrawn all of its armed forces from Lebanon in accordance with United Nations Security Council Resolution 425 (March 19, 1978), as certified by the United Nations Secretary General.

(10) Even in the face of this United Nations certification that acknowledged Israel's full compliance with Resolution 425, Syria permits attacks by Hizballah and other militant organizations on Israeli outposts at Shebaa Farms, under the false guise that it remains Lebanese land. Syria also permits attacks on civilian targets in Israel.

(11) Syria will not allow Lebanon, a sovereign country, to fulfill its obligation in accordance with Security Council Resolution 425 to deploy its troops to southern Lebanon.

(12) As a result, the Israeli-Lebanese border and much of southern Lebanon is under the control of Hizballah, which continues to attack Israeli positions and allows Iranian Revolutionary Guards and other militant groups to operate freely in the area, destabilizing the entire region.

(13) The United States provides $40,000,000 in assistance to the Lebanese people through private nongovernmental organizations, $7,900,000 of which is provided to Lebanese-American educational institutions.

(14) In the State of the Union address on January 29, 2002, President George W. Bush declared that the United States will `work closely with our coalition to deny terrorists and their state sponsors the materials, technology, and expertise to make and deliver weapons of mass destruction'.

(15) The Government of Syria continues to develop and deploy short- and medium-range ballistic missiles.

(16) The Government of Syria is pursuing the development and production of biological and chemical weapons.

(17) United Nations Security Council Resolution 661 (August 6, 1990) and subsequent relevant resolutions restrict the sale of oil and other commodities by Iraq, except to the extent authorized by other relevant resolutions.

(18) Syrian President Bashar Assad promised the Secretary of State in February 2001 to end violations of Security Council Resolution 661 but this pledge has not been fulfilled.

(19) In direct violation of United Nations Sanctions, Syria has been importing 200,000 barrels of Iraqi oil on a daily basis since 2000, which has provided Iraq with up to $1,200,000,000 annually.

(20) There are reports that Syria is pursuing the development of chemical weapons, such as VX and Sarin, and is harboring fugitive Iraqi officials.

(21) On April 20, 2003, President Bush said there were positive signs that Syria will cooperate on the issue of harboring fugitive Iraqi officials."

http://www.theorator.com/bills108/s982.html

[IndianaGreen]

85. Same idiots that voted for Iraq War Resolution

which tells me that they haven't learned a damned thing from the Iraq debacle.

[Englander]

73. ~Ready, steady, go!!~

October 15, 2005
G.I.'s and Syrians in Tense Clashes on Iraqi Border

By JAMES RISEN and DAVID E. SANGER

WASHINGTON, Oct. 14 - A series of clashes in the last year between American and Syrian troops, including a prolonged firefight this summer that killed several Syrians, has raised the prospect that cross-border military operations may become a dangerous new front in the Iraq war, according to current and former military and government officials.

The firefight, between Army Rangers and Syrian troops along the border with Iraq, was the most serious of the conflicts with President Bashar al-Assad's forces, according to American and Syrian officials.

It illustrated the dangers facing American troops as Washington tries to apply more political and military pressure on a country that President Bush last week labeled one of the "allies of convenience" with Islamic extremists. He also named Iran.

One of Mr. Bush's most senior aides, who declined to be identified because of the sensitivity of the subject, said that so far American military forces in Iraq had moved right up to the border to cut off the entry of insurgents, but he insisted that they had refrained from going over it.

But other officials, who say they got their information in the field or by talking to Special Operations commanders, say that as American efforts to cut off the flow of fighters have intensified, the operations have spilled over the border - sometimes by accident, sometimes by design.

More at;
The New York Times

[bemildred]

74. The Syrian government will do its best to ignore these provocations.

Like an old lady walking down the street ignoring a yappy dog.

[IndianaGreen]

84. Yeah, let's turn Syria into another Iraq

and bring Al-Qaeda closer to Israel's borders.

PNAC scum are everywhere! Perhaps Mr. Shalom is good buddies with the other PNAC scum such as Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, etc.

[number6]

86. bad idea

"Syria regime change"

worked so well in Iraq :eyes: not