Gas Taxes: Lesser Evil, Greater Good, NY Times October 24 2005

[Coastie for Truth]

There's no serious disagreement that two major crises of our time are terrorism and global warming. And there's no disputing that America's oil consumption fosters both. Oil profits that flow to Saudi Arabia and other Middle Eastern countries finance both terrorist acts and the spread of dangerously fanatical forms of Islam. The burning of fossil fuels creates greenhouse emissions that provoke climate change. All the while, oil dependency increases the likelihood of further military entanglements, and threatens the economy with inflation, high interest rates and risky foreign indebtedness. Until now, the government has failed to connect our crises and our consumption in a coherent way. That dereliction of duty has led to policies that are counterproductive, such as tax incentives to buy gas guzzlers and an overemphasis on increasing domestic oil supply, although even all-out drilling would not be enough to slake our oil thirst and would require a reversal of longstanding environmental protections.

[imouttahere]

1. BushCo would disagree with the global warming part....

but I'm sure that was why the writer here specifies "serious" disagreement.

[heidler1]

3. This sounds like Gore's plan which was very unpopular, but valid.

[unblock]

2. here's my problem with the "oil funds terror" line:

i'll certainly conceded that money used to purchase oil eventually winds up in the hands of terrorists, and this is not something to be happy about.

but it's fundamentally ridiculous to assert that further impoverishment of islamic nations will abate in any meaningful way the steadily increasing stream of terrorist activities against the united states and her allies. the fact is that it is precisely poverty and the great disparity between the wealth of the have-nots in the middle east and the haves in the west -- the united states, in particular.

these nations have entire economies, not just oil, and we all want increased trade. no one's happy with the idea that most of these economies are heavily dependent on revenue from oil, nor do we like that we're heavily dependent on their oil. but we'd all be happy if they had stronger, more diversified, successful economies. and yet, such an economy would be in a stronger position to fund terrorism. however, the enthusiasm for terror would likely dissipate, given a healthy economy.

weaning ourselves off foreign oil, in the absence of a broader global strategy, will only increase their poverty and further fuel their desperation and sense of injustice, and hence, the lure of terrorism.


far better would be to embark on a long-term plan to wean THEIR economies off oil, rather than weaning OUR economy off it -- although certainly, the former permits the latter, which would be a separate, worthy goal. weaning THEIR ecnomies off oil means improved trade and healthy relations that permit them to make a contribution to the world economy and share in the world's wealth.

this is by far the best approach to reducing terror.

[rkc3]

4. One cause of the problem the Middle East has with America is

our support of Israel.

Like the British, the US support the development of an Israeli homeland. For the Israelis (or the Jews who emigrated to Israel after WWII) to obtain a homeland, it requires Arabs to move out of their homes.

The Arabs don't really want to leave their homeland. What makes it worse is the region the Israelis want to occupy also contains an anchor of the Muslim faith - so no only are they giving up their land, but also being forced to turn over their holy land to infidels.

Regardless of your religious affiliation (a lot of Americans believe that God promised a homeland to the Jews in Israel and therefore support our government's policies - in fact, they support politicians who push this agenda), throwing a group of people out of their country to make room for another has never been good policy.

[Coastie for Truth]

5. One problem that is vastly overstated by apologists is "Israel"

The issue is NOT Israel - it is a Romanov style monarchy, as cruel and oppressive and corrupt as the Romanovs, that has exploited the mineral wealth birthright of the Arab proletariat -- and squandered the fruits of that mineral wealth building "sinful" resorts and bordellos and casinos, and buying race horses, and paying off the most conservative religious elements in society to "keep a lid on things."

I was born in a coal mining town (where the Monongahela Valley changes from the "Steel Valley" to the "Coal Valley") - and I lived in "Susquehanna Country" for seven years. I lived in the Gulf Coast "oil patch" and the "coal valleys" of Pennsylvania and West Virginia. I have seen what mineral exploitation does to a society, and I have seen what it does to the environment.

I have also worked with Palestinians establishing modern, high tech, IT and pharma businesses. World of difference from the "mineral" people.

[unblock]

6. well put. underneath virtually every religious conflict is an economic one

i am sincerely hoping this thread does NOT turn into a degenerative israel/palestine argument, but let me say this -- there's a lot more than just the displacement of palestinians going on. there's also the single-commodity economies that abound in the region. there's also the atrocious distribution of wealth in the region, not only the disparity between israel and her neighbors, but also within the oil countries. then there's the decision of israel's neighbors to refuse to take in the palestinians, creating the refugee crisis as a cynical political tool against israel.

there's a LOT going on here, which is why a solution is so elusive. but one thing seems certain. if we can get functioning economies throughout this region, much of the turmoil will vanish.

(disclaimer: i am NOT an i/p moderator and am voicing my opinion purely as an ordinary member).

[rkc3]

7. I think there is some truth to both exploitation and Israel.

You can't have one group using the mineral wealth of the country to keep the other part enslaved.

We've done something similar by taking away Arab homeland and supporting the institution of an Israeli state.

The link below details a good book on the history of the region and how the evanglical christian movement in Great Britain and the US have impacted our policies on Israeli occupation.

http://www.upf.com/book.asp?id=ANDERS05

[Coastie for Truth]

8. The Arabs' Mineral Wealth is being exploited by their own rulers

[rkc3]

9. That's a given - but both groups (the rulers and the exploited) are

pissed that the US has told them they should move out of their lands.

I'm not trying to be an apologist for the Arabs, it's just that the bush admin has painted the war on terror on the basis that terrorists hate us for our freedom - that's not the case.

They hate us for our policies. They hate us because of our consumption of their oil - that keeps so many of their people held down, but they also hate us for our support of Israel.

The big problem for the left is that the sound bite from the right (hate us for our freedom) is a lot easier to understand than one about our policies. It's hard work to take the time to understand the long history of why Arabs hate the West.