Lebanon Tries to Cut Off Palestinian Group

[barb162]

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/international/AP-Lebanon-Assads-Proxy.html

Lebanon Tries to Cut Off Palestinian Group

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: October 30, 2005
Filed at 5:41 p.m. ET

BEIRUT, Lebanon (AP) -- Having rid itself of Syrian occupying forces with a show of people power, Lebanon is now deploying its army to cut off Syrian support for its proxy -- a Palestinian group behind some of the worst attacks against Israel over the years.

To many Arabs, the outfit that goes by the name of PFLP-GC, for Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command, is Syria's tool in its shadowy war against its enemies. It is on the U.S. State Department's terrorist list and has lately been accused of involvement in the February assassination of the former Lebanese prime minister, Rafik Hariri -- the event that ended up forcing the Syrians to pull out of Lebanon.

snip

In 1968, after a career as a military officer, he founded the PFLP-GC, one of several groups operating under the umbrella of Yasser Arafat's Palestine Liberation Organization. It quickly came to notoriety with a string of bloodbaths: It hijacked one Israeli airliner, machine-gunned another at Zurich's airport, and then blew up a Tel Aviv-bound Swissair plane, killing all 47 aboard.

It also mounted repeated attacks on Israelis from neighboring Lebanon. In 1987 a PFLP-GC man on a hang-glider flew into northern Israel and killed six soldiers before being shot dead.

snip

[Colorado Blue]

1. Thank you for posting this. The history of the Lebanese

Civil War reveals some truly horrific attacks by the PFLP, not just on Israelis but on Lebanese.

There are links in Wikipedia.

[Englander]

2. Evidence, please?

--The history of the Lebanese Civil War reveals some truly horrific attacks by the PFLP, not just on Israelis but on Lebanese.--

The only *truly* horrific massacres I've heard about in the
Lebanese civil war, were Tel al Zaatar, in 1976, & Sabra and Shatila.

[barb162]

3. Lebanese Civil War,PLO accused of genocide of 100,000 Lebanese

snip


In 1981, armed forces of the PLO occupied large areas of southern Lebanon and increased attacks on Israel with rockets and artillery while also engaging Lebanese forces and killing civilians. (Fifteen years later, in 1996, the World Lebanese Organization, the World Maronite Union, and human rights groups concerned with the Middle East accused the PLO of genocide in Lebanon, blaming them for the deaths of 100,000 Lebanese civilians).snip



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Civil_War#The_Civil_War.2C_Civilian_Massacres.2C_and_Syrian_intervention_1975.E2.80.9381

[barb162]

4. by phalangists

Sabra and Shatila.

[pelsar]

5. wow....

you dont know much about the lebanese civil war then....massacres between the muslims and christians go back hundreds of years with the palestenians having a HUGE part of it...(and jordan as well.)

http://www.warsoflebanon.com/

• 1860–61 Violent conflict between Druzes and Maronites provokes a massacre of Christians in Lebanon (then part of the Ottoman province of Syria); the French intervene militarily and demand that Lebanon be made an autonomous province with a Christian governor.

http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ht/10/wap/ht10wap.htm

[Englander]

7. The Lebanese civil war (1975-90)

started in '1860'? Who. Knew?

Where are they? Where are the names, and dates of these massacres,
in the '75-'90, civil war? Because that is what was claimed, & that
is what I asked for, evidence for these 'PFLP atrocities'.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Englander]

8. I'm not going on a wild goose chase-

I'm not going to do your research for you - you've made the claim,
the onus is on yourself to provide any evidence. I notice that your
post contains *zero* evidence of any 'attacks by the PFLP,'. I would
like to know the dates & locations of these 'attacks', which is why
I asked for some evidence. If the links posted contain any *actual*
evidence*, then post it, I'm not going to find it for you.

[Behind the Aegis]

9. 'attacks by the PFLP'

The PFLP joined the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the umbrella organization of the Palestinian national movement, in 1968, becoming the second-largest faction after al-Fatah.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_Front_for_the_Liberation_of_Palestine

[Englander]

10. ~~~

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x103718#103807

[Behind the Aegis]

11. ------

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=103718&mesg_id=103808

[Englander]

12. Look at the dates.

Then read the original claim. Then look at the dates.
Repeat, until a moment of realisation is attained.

:banghead:
:banghead:

[Behind the Aegis]

13. Bang your Head!

The PLO in Lebanon and the Lebanese Civil War
Main article: Lebanese Civil War
In the mid-1970s, Arafat and his Fatah movement found themselves in a tenuous position politically. The PLO's Rejection Front opposed Arafat's growing calls for diplomacy from the mid-1970s, perhaps best symbolized by his support for a UN Security Council resolution proposed in 1976 calling for a two-state settlement on the pre-1967 borders and his Ten Points Program, which was denounced by the Rejection Front (and vetoed by the United States). The population in the Occupied Territories, for their part, saw Arafat as their only hope for a favourable resolution to the conflict, especially in the aftermath of the Camp David Accords, which Palestinians had seen as a blow to their aspirations to self-determination; on the other hand, Israeli leaders, who had their own designs for the Occupied Territories, resented Arafat's popularity and increasing diplomatic credibility. Meanwhile, Abu Nidal, a sworn enemy of the PLO since 1974, assassinated the PLO's diplomatic envoy to the European Economic Community, which in the Venice Declaration of 1980 had called for the Palestinian right of self-determination to be recognized by Israel. The sponsors of the assassination were never conclusively identified, but it was at any rate clear that Arafat's diplomatic machinations were not universally welcomed.

In the Lebanese Civil War the PLO first fought against the Maronites, then against Israel, then, finally, against the Syrian supported Amal militia. From 1985 to 1988 Amal besieged Palestinian refugee camps in Lebanon to drive out supporters of Arafat. Many thousands of Palestinians died of fire and starvation. After the Amal siege ended there was a great deal of intra-Palestinian fighting in the camps. (see War of the Camps)

Opposition to Arafat was notably fierce not only among radical Arab groups but among many on the Israeli right as well, including Menachem Begin, who had stated on more than one occasion that even if the PLO accepted UN Security Council resolution 242 and recognized Israel's right to exist, he would never negotiate with the organization (Smith, op. cit., p. 357). This contradicted the official United States position that it would negotiate with the PLO if the PLO accepted resolution 242 and recognized Israel, which the PLO had thus far been unwilling to do. Other Arab voices had recently called for a diplomatic resolution to the hostilities in accord with the international consensus, including Egyptian leader Anwar Sadat on his visit to Washington in August 1981 and Crown Prince Fahd of Saudi Arabia in his 7 August peace proposal; together with Arafat's diplomatic manoeuvres, these developments made Israel's argument that it had "no partner for peace" seem increasingly problematic. Thus, in the eyes of Israeli hard-liners, "the Palestinians posed a greater challenge to Israel as a peacemaking organization than as a military one" (Smith, op. cit., 376).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLO#The_PLO_in_Lebanon_and_the_Lebanese_Civil_War

[Englander]

16. *sigh*

I didn't ask for a history of the Lebanese Civil War, I know the
history of the LCW, I asked for evidence to support the original
claim. Maybe, one day a claim will be made with *actual*credible*
evidence to support it. Maybe, one day, I'll get a response that
isn't a couple of paras ripped from Wiki, which, apparently,
isn't related to my question.

[Behind the Aegis]

19. from the OP

"In 1968, after a career as a military officer, he founded the PFLP-GC, one of several groups operating under the umbrella of Yasser Arafat's Palestine Liberation Organization. It quickly came to notoriety with a string of bloodbaths: It hijacked one Israeli airliner, machine-gunned another at Zurich's airport, and then blew up a Tel Aviv-bound Swissair plane, killing all 47 aboard."

[Englander]

21. What was the point of that?

I've already read it. Look at the dates. Then look at post #1.
Repeat, &tc.

[Behind the Aegis]

22. The Civil War, Civilian Massacres, and Syrian intervention 1975–81

In January 1976, al-Sa'iqa, a pro-Syrian Palestinian militia, attacked the Christian town of Damour. The town fell on 20 January. The civilian dead numbered at least 300, with one estimate being as high as 582. As a result of the massacre, most Christians began to see the Palestinian presence as a short-term threat to their survival. Moreover, the Lebanese left (which enjoyed some popularity in the Christian community and especially in the poorest classes) lost most of its legitimacy because of its support for the Palestinian cause. Meanwhile, Arafat's Fatah movement joined the war on the side of the National Movement.

In June, 1976, with fighting throughout the country and the Maronites on the verge of defeat, President Suleiman Franjieh called for Syrian intervention. The Damour massacre made Frangieh fear further massacres and he thought that only Syria could save the Christians from a slaughter. Syria responded by ending its prior affiliation with the Rejection Front and supporting the Maronites. This technically put Syria on the same side as Israel, as Israel had already begun to supply Maronite forces with arms, tanks, and military advisors in May 1976. (Smith, op. cit., 354.). Syria had its own political and territorial interests in Lebanon, which harbored the fundamentalist anti-Syrian Muslim Brotherhood. Syrian troops subsequently entered Lebanon, occupying Tripoli and the Bekaa Valley, and imposed a ceasefire (Fisk, pp. 78-81) that ultimately failed to stop the conflict.

After the arrival of Syrian troops, Christian forces massacred 2,000 Palestinians in the Tel al-Za'atar camp in East Beirut <1>. The nation was effectively divided, with southern Lebanon and the western half of Beirut becoming bases for the PLO and Muslim-based militias, and the Christians in control of East Beirut and the Christian section of Mt. Lebanon. The main confrontation line in divided Beirut was known as the Green Line.

In October 1976, an Arab League summit in Riyadh gave Syria a mandate to keep 40,000 troops in Lebanon as the bulk of an Arab Deterrent Force charged with disentangling the combatants and restoring calm. The Lebanese Civil War was officially ended at this point, and an uneasy quiet settled over Beirut and most of the rest of Lebanon. In the south, however, the climate began to deteriorate as a consequence of the return of PLO combatants, who had been required to vacate central Lebanon under the terms of the Riyadh Accords.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Civil_War#The_Civil_War.2C_Civilian_Massacres.2C_and_Syrian_intervention_1975.E2.80.9381

The Damour massacre took place on 20 January 1976 during the 1975–1990 Lebanese Civil War. It was an attack on the Lebanese Christian town of Damour, 12 miles south of Beirut, which was in the sphere of influence of Camille Chamoun. The massacre was carried out by members of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine, Fatah, the Palestine Liberation Army's Ayn Jalout brigade sent from Egypt, the Qadisiyya brigade from Iraq, as well as fighters from Syria and Jordan, and Japanese commandos who were training in Lebanon <1>. Estimates of the civilian dead range from 25–30 <2> to 582 <3> with the most reliable figure probably being around 330.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damour_massacre

[Englander]

23. Now, how difficult was it to provide that?

Which was all I asked for, evidence to back up any claim. I did
not make the claim that the PFLP &tc, were innocents, there are
no innocents in a vicious civil war. The massacre was, appartently,
revenge for Karantina, which was probably revenge for another
outrage, which was probably revenge for an earlier outrage, which
was, no doubt, the reason for another, different, outrage, &tc,&tc,&tc.

'Lebanese war chronology - 1976'

http://www.111101.net/facts/history/chronology/index.html?http://www.111101.net/facts/history/chronology/phase.php?year=1976

[Behind the Aegis]

24. And how disingenuous was that?

If you knew it, then why pretend it didn't happen? Why feign outrage that this was nothing more than misleading propaganda?

[Englander]

14. Move the goalposts, much?

So, when a claim is made about a *specific* group, at a *specific*
time & place,the claim isn't really about a specific group, but is
about any group, anyplace, anytime? I see.

:eyes:

[Behind the Aegis]

15. reline the field much?

When the claim is about a group that MERGED with a group responsible for several of the activities you are talking about....or do you need proof that the PLO was involved in terrorist activities in the Lebanese Civil war?

[Englander]

17. Bollix.

The claim was about PFLP, if it was about the PLO, then
the claim would have mentioned the PLO. Still no evidence
to support the op, I notice. And you realise that the er,
'question' you've posted is rhetorical, yes?

[Behind the Aegis]

18. again!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=103718&mesg_id=103757

You do realize that the PFLP was a PART of the PLO, no?!

[Englander]

20. Alright, I've wasted enough time, here, really.

The original claim, no mention of the PFLP-GC, or the PLO;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=103718&mesg_id=103724

-- The history of the Lebanese Civil War reveals some truly horrific attacks by the PFLP, not just on Israelis but on Lebanese.--

That's very specific, with *zero* evidence.