Ahmadinejad says Zionist crimes same as Nazi crimes

[ECH1969]

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said the crimes committed by Zionists against the Palestinians were the same as the crimes committed by the Nazis in the Second World War, the news agency ISNA reported Sunday.

'One question to be clarified by the West is what crimes did they commit in those days (Second World War) what the Zionists are not doing today,' Ahmadinejad was quoted as saying by ISNA.

'Zionism is de facto neo-fascism,' Ahmadinejad added in question and answer session carried by ISNA.

http://news.monstersandcritics.com/middleeast/article_1072700.php/Ahmadinejad_says_Zionist_crimes_same_as_Nazi_crimes

[Pavulon]

1. Someone should gag this moron..(nt)

[Ian David]

23. He sounds just like some so-called "Liberals" on DU n/t

[aquart]

25. Yes. He does.

Of course, I prefer to believe those people aren't really liberals. But there's absolutely no reason to believe that being a liberal precludes being a bigot.

[Coastie for Truth]

49. Agreed. NT

[Djinn]

69. especially when those "liberals"

think hatred and fear of any and all arabs is justified on the basis that some are murderers, that sort of blanket hatred is really bad huh aquart? :eyes:

[gulfcoastliberal]

72. Right on.

Peace.

[IndianaGreen]

55. All a rightwinger has to do is to wrap himself in the Israeli flag

and engage in all the liberal bashing that only a moron like O'Reilly would dream about. It is no accident that some of the posters that engage in that behaviour down here, are the same ones that are constantly attacking progressives upstairs for such crimes as saying that Ohio was stolen by GOP in '04, Gore won Florida in '00, Bush was forewarned about Al-Qaeda striking the US in early '01, Bush should be impeached, Chavez is a good guy, Evo Morales is a good guy, Cheney is an evil sob, GOP is a criminal enterprise, PATRIOT is bad, Downing Street Memos are for real, etc., etc.

[bloom]

61. Agreed. etc.

:)

[Jim Sagle]

59. Fuckin' A.

[sugapablo]

2. Uhm....

<'One question to be clarified by the West is what crimes did they commit in those days (Second World War) what the Zionists are not doing today,' Ahmadinejad was quoted as saying by ISNA.>

How about forced labor camps, extermination of entire villages, medical experimentation...

Is this guy really this dumb? Or is just just this much of a schmuck?

[michreject]

3. Maybe, just maybe

This How about forced labor camps, extermination of entire villages, medical experimentation...
is what he has in mind.

He's a dangerous, dangerous man.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. This kind of rhetoric doesn't help the Palestinian cause

Besides, I don't think one could call Israel a fascist state-I don't know recent history, but I don't recall corporations being the darling of the Knesset-and aren't there programs in place that we in the US would call socialist?

Just because the government of Israel isn't a modern day copy of the Nazi facist state doesn't mean that the government policies have been fair to Palestinians. But how many know what has been done to Palestinians? They don't find out when all they see is rhetoric like this or the bombings, etc. What I have to wonder is if people espousing violence, calling names, etc, are really looking after the best interests of the Palestinians. I found that I started listening when I met Palestinian Christians who were quietly telling their story and who were working for a peaceful solution (alongside Jews and Muslims, btw).

[StrafingMoose]

39. "This kind of rhetoric doesn't help the Palestinian cause"

That's the point. Iran's president is a big trojan horse that will justify a Western/Israeli intervention there (Iran) soon, IMO.

I'm just curious to know who propped up his party and funded him this time.

[bloom]

60. That is exactly what it sounds like...

justification/a reason to invade/bomb/whatever

What with how the foreign PR machine works.

[IndianaGreen]

62. Iran is a Persian country, not an Arab one

so I don't see where the rantings of Iran's President have anything to do with the Palestinians. The only reason this guy was elected was a reaction to the US invasion of Iraq and Bush's hostile pronouncements towards Iran. In a way, he is our own creation, just as Bin Laden was.

[eyl]

63. I think you're taking too much credit

for the US :)

IMO, it's just as likely (if not more so) that Iran's theocrats got tired of fighting against Khatami - not that they let him accomplish much, but if you have a like-minded president instead, you can just lay back and let him do the work; and there's also much less of a PR cost to you (since you're not seen as constantly foiling a "moderate", and since he'll draw all the heat)

[NJ Democrats]

5. This guy is really pissing me off.

I can't stand his Anti-Israeli shit anymore. He keeps saying all this stuff. "Israel should be wiped of the the map" "Zionism is fascism,"
Is this guy a fucking idiot or what?
I really hope this guy is not President of Iran anymore...

[Pavulon]

7. He is keeping his voters happy

He is all hat and no cattle. Iran has no capability to win a war with Israel.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

8. Israel isn't going away

what needs to happen is to let those who wish to live in peace to have a greater voice in deciding what is going on. Unfortunately, their voices are silenced by those in both Palestine and Isreal who don't want a peaceful solution. This fellow, who is really an outsider, is not helping matters-and his rhetoric turns off Westerners so that many don't investigate to see if there have been injustices done to the Palestinians. I wish that the non-violent path of ML King, Nelson Mandella, and Ghandi had been taken here-then if there is injustice, it would be easy for the world to see. Violence doesn't solve the problem; instead it hides the problem, and assures that it won't go away anytime soon.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Centered]

29. sex has nothing to do with it...

Women can be vicious... at least men are stupid and predictable. (well at least the ones in power anyway)

[newblewtoo]

46. Like....Golda?

As prime minister, Meir promoted her socialist agenda, which included improvements in education and massive housing programs to encourage immigration. Her greatest test as prime minister occurred on October 6, 1973, when Syria and Egypt attacked Israel in what came to be known as the Yom Kippur war. Meir and her defense minister, Moshe Dyan, were caught offguard by the attack, and most historians agree that Israel would have lost the war if the U.S. and other Western nations had not acted swiftly to come to its aid. In 1974, Meir’s Labor party lost ground in the Knesset, the Israeli parliament, and she resigned soon after. In her last years, she became closer to her family, and died on December 8, 1978.


From:
http://ctct.essortment.com/goldamier_rbff.htm

[malaise]

6. One Israeli member of parliament

said the same thing some time back. Murder, displacement and the stealing of property is the same no matter where it takes place. I wonder sometimes if the West really know or care about what was done to the Palestinians and both Europe and the US are complicit.

Edit -sp.

[Pavulon]

10. Other arab nations

have killed as many more palestinians than israel. A Palestinian state would be a great thing. It would end the proxy war being fought in israel by pawns by arab nations.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

11. I doubt if they even know there are Isrealis working for justice

unless they take time to try and find out about the situation, they see it in terms of black and white, good and bad. They never take time to review the history of the area, especially in the twentieth century.

[DBoon]

18. and if Israel were just like Nazi Germany..

these pacifist Israelis would meet the same fate that anti-Nazi Germans did

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

20. Very true

a lot of folks don't realize that many of the victims of the Holocost were Germans and Christians who disagreed with Hitler.

[cantstandbush]

31. Some pacifist have met the same fate. n/t

[amandabeech]

17. While I find many actions of the Israelis directed against the

Palestinians to be very, very troubling, I think that the actions of the Nazis and their hangers-on against the Jews and others to be several orders of magnitude worse. I simply cannot equate the actions of the two entities.

[malaise]

22. Well as a descendent of the ultimate atrocity

Western European slavery, I have long discovered that magnitude is a subjective word. From where I sit evil is evil.

[aquart]

27. European slavery was the ultimate atrocity? Good grief.

Go read some history.

And how does it differ from current African slavery?

Or Asian slavery? You know, where parents sell their children into the sex trades or mines? Still?

Know how the Mongols (ancestors of mine) conquered Asia and Europe? They left high piles of skulls. Those people would have been thrilled to end up slaves instead of bone piles. They weren't given a choice.

Personal freedom is a very recent concept. If being free meant you starved, and being a slave meant you ate, it wasn't that tough a choice for millions of caucasions, asians, and africans.

Actually, I only know one group who preferred death to slavery: the mass suicides at Masada. But I don't doubt that there were others. Slavery is not fun. At Pompeii, the archaeologists can tell the bones of a slave from the bones of a free person: so much more wear from weights too heavy to be carried, but carried nonetheless. So many signs of strain.

Was slavery a harsh life? Damn straight. But even pampered slaves lived without choice, something we value highly. And nobody has ever said a word about admiring the life. (Except a cousin of mine but that's a whole other family problem.) But "ULTIMATE atrocity"? Not when you brag about being a descendant. Not when there ARE descendants.

[malaise]

28. Our discussions ended when you asked

Was slavery a harsh life? Go study the middle passsage and the treatment of my ancestors then get back to me. You might start with Thomas Thistlewood's Diary.

Peace and adios.

[eyl]

57. You might reread the very next sentance in his post n/t

[Warren Stupidity]

35. You should read a better history of the Mongolian conquests.

The pile of bones stuff is crap - nonsense that the europeans invented to help them cope with the humiliating defeats the horsemen of the steppes handed their glorious but clunky knights. They shouldn't have taken it personally, the mongols defeated everyone. By the way - they treated their captured territories rather well, as long as you didn't resist their authority. Cities that surrendured were treated with respect. For the period they were fairly enlightened.

[pschoeb]

41. Uh, are you sure you know what your talking about

The "pile of skulls" was a technique of Timur the Lame (a Mongol, who claimed descent from Ghengis Khan, also known as Tamerlane) it is recorded by the Persian Historian Sharaf ad-Din Ali Yazdi who was writing for Timur's son Shah Rokh. So the source is not European, nor hostile to the perpetrator.

[Spinzonner]

9. I think that the Bush administration will come to like this guy

eventually.

He makes Bush look sane and responsible by comparison. And that's hard to do.

[ckramer]

16. LOL but very true n/t

[fujiyama]

30. I agree

Wasn't there a Doonbury cartoon after 9/11 where Bush says "Thank you evil doers".

This guy is a nut in the same mold as bin Laden and Bush...Bush and him have similar agendas and they can feed off each other.

[Warren Stupidity]

36. rhetoric vs action

"This guy is a nut in the same mold as bin Laden and Bush" - I disagree. The Iranians, to date, despite their rhetoric, have not acted in the world as aggressors. They have not flown planes into buildings or invaded nations for no reason. They fought a huge bloody war against Iraq, but they were not the aggressors, our proxy and former friend Saddam performed that role.

Until the Iranians go beyond rhetoric they are not on the same level as Bush and bin Laden.

[fujiyama]

38. True..to some extent

While the mullahs do sponsor terror within their own country (they are responsible for assassinating candidates not favorable to them), and abroad (funding of various terrorist groups), they aren't quite on the same league as Bush or bin Laden. They haven't started a war...yet...

I suppose it's really only a matter of degree.

[sasquatch]

12. See this is what Religous Fundamentalism does to a working brain

[TomClash]

13. The real question is

Why doesn't this man fear retaliation from Israel or the US?

[Pavulon]

14. They have been on a Death to America kick

for 25 years and haven't been bombed yet. He is just talking shit. In the real world Iran has no ability to win a war with Israel, nevermind the US.

[ckramer]

15. Well the problem is the we keep responsding to him

I guess if the whole world ignore him (stop reporting what he just said), he will go away.

[Psephos]

40. He is going to have nukes soon

and that makes the idea of ignoring him no longer tenable. He's a fundy nutbag, and it's not hard to envision him loaning a nuke or two to some other religious freaks.

Ignoring your bills every month and hoping they will go away doesn't work either, and for the same reason - because there are consequences. JMHO.

Peace.

[David__77]

19. They are both imperialist crimes.

But the genocide against Jews was on a more grand scale. There are those in Israel who would walk in Hitler's footsteps, but they are still on the fringes, thankfully.

[HuffleClaw]

21. the truth can be painful

and so are the crimes of bush

[Coastie for Truth]

24. Ahmadinejad should lay off the Nestle's Crunch Bars. (Psychotropic) NT

[Warren Stupidity]

32. Ahmadinejad is taunting us.

It is pretty clear at this point that the Iranians are deliberately taunting America and Israel. Ahmadinejad is trotted out to make inflammatory statements just about every other week. Gee, the first time I thought 'that's odd, it is like they are using him to taunt us or seomthing', but dismissed it as just a bit of newbie blundering. But he does it over and over and over again. Obviously he has the blessing of the theocracy to be doing just what he is doing, and they have some intention here.

My guess is that they view an attack by our forces as a total blunder by our side - that we will get our hats handed to us rather swiftly. Why would they think that?

[Endangered Specie]

33. Well I for one hope the "Zionist global conspiracy" gets rid of his ass...

and right soon. Wouldn't miss him.

[Massacure]

34. Didn't he say the holocaust didn't exist?

This fella flip-flops more than John Kerry! :sarcasm:

[teryang]

37. Response from Iran to American- Israel threats to bomb Iran

That's all it is.

Some analysts believe air strikes on Iran will rank right up there with Germany's aggressive moves in the thirties and serve as a trigger for a huge military struggle for control of Asian resources.

In other words the stupid signals from our government and Israel, trying to intimidate Iran, are just provoking them to dig in. They are not afraid of us because they believe that they have Chinese and Russian backing. It may be stupid, but so is our phony policy which is no less fraudulent than that which purportedly justified invading Iraq.

Once the bombing campaign against Iran begins it will start an interminable conflict. I think the war profiteers and their venal political representatives see profit in this. The Iranians are being given terms which require them to concede their sovereignty (much like Assad of Syria) in a way that no other nation would submit to. Does anyone really think they can satisfy American demands?

Could Saddam have satisfied American demands?

[KamaAina]

42. So why is King Dumbass** rattling sabers against this guy?

Sounds to me like the two of them were separated at hatching, er, I mean birth. :puke:

[sweetheart]

43. where does he get fodder for this claim?

Has israel denied civil rights to a race of people,
interring them in prison-ghettos surrounded by walls,
much how the jews were incarcerated in warsaw. And then,
without due process, helicopters shoot rockets at cars
killing families by summary justice... much quicker than
lethal injection without all the due process loopholes.

There is a lot of fodder to fuel the claim. Sadly the
iranian leader is inflating instead of keeping to facts
discussing real things..... gosh, when they leave
reality behind for rhetorical passion is when we're screwed.

[Chi-Town Exile]

44. Ever notice how those that espouse hatred, war and genocide

are the people that get all the press?

Why don't those who speak of peace get as much ink?

[IndianaGreen]

45. By moving this thread from LBN to I/P it prevents people from knowing

what the President of Iran is saying.

Sometimes those that want to shove anything that remotely has a Jewish flavor into this dungeon are doing their fellow DUers, and their own cause, a disservice.

We need more people to know what is happening in the Middle East, and what sort of statements the leaders in that region are making.

[Carolab]

47. Yes, you are correct about this.

The subject is LBN and is appropriate there.

I disagree that it should be moved due to others' perceptions/misjudgments/false accusations re: "antisemitism" in any discussion about Zionists. I for one am sick of it.

[IndianaGreen]

48. Equating Zionism with Nazism and the Holocaust is quite a shocker

People need to know what Ahmadinejad is doing and saying, and they won't know that if his words, however offensive, are relegated to DU's basement.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

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[Codeine]

51. You're fucking linking to a Holocaust denial site!

WTF?!

on edit: Seriously, the site linked to is some of the most over-the-top anti-Semitic revisionist bullshit I've ever seen. For shame.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Codeine]

53. It's not about an "alternative point of view."

It's about linking to a website that contends that the Holocaust is a fabrication, that the "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" is a factual document, that John Kerry is an agent of the Illuminati.

The very fact that you eagerly rely on such a site - for that matter, even spending any serious amount of time reading that tripe - speaks volumes about your credibility on this issue. Being against Israeli conduct is not anti-Semitic, and I've not claimed it was, so you can stuff that nit of nonsense right back where it came from. The site you linked to is obviously, clearly, and openly a site dedicated to Holocaust denial and the struggle against "World Jewry." *That* is anti-Semitic, and it's also reprehensible.

Again, shame on you.

[Colorado Blue]

54. Thank you. I am in shock. I appreciate your post. EOM.

[Codeine]

58. Damn! He got Tombstoned for that.

Score one for the mods! :toast:

[Wordie]

56. Wait a minute. Aren't there tons of reports saying he denied it's true?

Were those earlier reports false? Has he changed his mind? Because he sure doesn't seem to be denying the Holocaust's existance here, however much one might disagree with other portions of his reported statements. So how can that be?


DISCLAIMER. I am in no way proclaiming Ahmadinejad's goodness and charm, only that there seems to be a discrepancy in the reports of his statements.

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Wordie]

74. Pointing out discrepancies in reports makes one a "jew-hater"?

I really believe that these over-the-top comments aimed at "liberals" don't help the cause of combatting anti-Semitism at all.

I do understand that it is a sensitive topic; I in no way intend to minimalize it, so let me explain my remarks further. I am just not confident we know what he is saying, or the significance of what he is saying. I already said I in no way support him; I made that quite clear in my post. My concern is that this stupid rhetoric is going to lead us into another war. Do you want a war just because some guy is shooting his mouth off? I don't. By focusing so much on his every word, that's the direction the press is heading us. Whatever he has said, it seems more than clear that the guy is way out of his depth. As I understand it, even the mullahs don't have much confidence in him, and are giving power to Rafstanjani instead.

[Terran1212]

64. It's common knowledge that Nazi training manuals were used by Israelis as

well as others, but this is an extreme comparison.

[IndianaGreen]

65. Common knowledge?

If this is "common knowledge," how come I've never heard about it?

[Colorado Blue]

67. Me either.

[Coastie for Truth]

66. Including the US, NATO, Warsaw, PRC

very good on WW2 era missiles, a lot of stuff on attack submarine strategy and tactics, ground maneuver units.

Why re-invent the wheel after it's been invented.

"Coastie"
Lieutenant, United States Coast Guard (Honorable Discharge)

[Lithos]

68. Please provide your source for this

It would be news to me considering that Col. Marcus (who had given up his US Army commission) had failed in his attempt to bring in US Army training manuals for the Haganah opted to write his own from scratch. Marcus was the guy who essentially provided the organizational and general staff skills needed by the Haganah in order to fight the war from a strategic perspective.

L-

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sopmod]

71. Comparing the Israelis to the Nazis is disingenuous to say the least.

The Israelis are the 5th most powerful military in the world and could easily "wipe out" every Palestinian in Israel/Palestine in less than 3 days if that was ever their intention(which it isn't) as well as hand all but the most powerful UN nations their hat if any reprisals were threatened(except China,Russia,USA).


Comparing the Israelis to the Nazis is disingenuous to say the least.