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Violet_Crumble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 01:57 AM Original message |
The strong man |
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Wordie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 03:13 AM Response to Original message |
1. This article is stunning. I'm left nearly speechless. |
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regnaD kciN (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 04:10 AM Response to Reply #1 |
2. It shouldn't be surprising... |
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IndianaGreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 08:24 PM Response to Reply #1 |
40. Take a clue from Israel's Left |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 04:47 AM Response to Original message |
3. it is amazing.... |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 05:01 AM Response to Reply #3 |
4. Deleted message |
Englander (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 05:43 AM Response to Reply #3 |
5. What was "made up"? |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 12:20 PM Response to Reply #5 |
14. intifada II |
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Englander (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 01:42 PM Response to Reply #14 |
17. In other words, *nothing* in the articles was "made up". |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 02:09 PM Response to Reply #17 |
19. bargrouti |
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Englander (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 07:23 AM Response to Reply #19 |
67. That's ~~Barghouti~~ |
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eyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 02:46 PM Response to Reply #17 |
22. It should be |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 04:16 PM Response to Reply #22 |
24. sabra and shatilla.. |
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eyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 04:38 PM Response to Reply #24 |
26. I fail to see the connection |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 05:12 PM Response to Reply #26 |
29. just some general info..n/t |
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Englander (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 07:24 AM Response to Reply #26 |
69. There isn't any connection. n/t |
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Englander (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 07:24 AM Response to Reply #22 |
68. Yeah, I know. n/t |
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Wordie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 05:09 PM Response to Reply #14 |
28. If Israelis knew of a build up, why did Sharon then go, with armed guards |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 05:33 PM Response to Reply #28 |
30. sharon.... |
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Wordie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 05:47 PM Response to Reply #30 |
32. al Asqa: still no explanation of why he would chose to go just then. |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 12:48 AM Response to Reply #32 |
50. what reports? |
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Wordie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 01:29 AM Response to Reply #50 |
54. Read post #39. |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 02:03 AM Response to Reply #54 |
55. your mixing things up.... |
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Wordie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 02:33 AM Response to Reply #55 |
58. That "read the future" stuff |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 07:02 AM Response to Reply #58 |
64. how many times.... |
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Behind the Aegis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 06:35 AM Response to Reply #3 |
7. once again...blaiming israel and sharon for gazas present chaos |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 02:27 PM Response to Reply #7 |
20. Deleted message |
Wordie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 04:56 PM Response to Reply #20 |
27. Please clarify. |
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Scurrilous (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 07:10 PM Response to Reply #20 |
34. self delete |
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Violet_Crumble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 07:26 AM Response to Reply #3 |
8. Then why don't you have a problem with the Israeli writer saying the same? |
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eyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 07:54 AM Response to Reply #8 |
9. If the intifada was caused |
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Violet_Crumble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 08:06 AM Response to Reply #9 |
10. It was sparked by his visit to the Temple Mount... |
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eyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 09:13 AM Response to Reply #10 |
12. Since your claim |
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Wordie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 05:33 PM Response to Reply #12 |
31. Wouldn't those incidents suggest that he not go, especially with armed |
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Violet_Crumble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 07:29 PM Response to Reply #12 |
35. No, my claim is that his visit sparked the Intifada... |
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Tom Joad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 09:53 PM Response to Reply #10 |
43. The horrendous death toll in the first months of the Al Aqsa intifadah |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 12:57 AM Response to Reply #43 |
51. israel was prepared..... |
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Tom Joad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 02:56 AM Response to Reply #51 |
60. Civilians, pelsar. Massive number of civilian casualties. |
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eyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 05:42 AM Response to Reply #60 |
63. Except for one problem |
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Tom Joad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 11:01 AM Response to Reply #63 |
77. Do they? This is an Israeli human rights organization. |
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eyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 12:33 PM Response to Reply #77 |
80. they're using |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 07:04 AM Response to Reply #60 |
65. their uniforms... |
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Englander (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 08:33 AM Response to Reply #9 |
11. That's not an Intifada - |
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Violet_Crumble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 07:37 PM Response to Reply #11 |
37. Exactly! |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 12:34 PM Response to Reply #8 |
15. the articles are interesting..... |
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Violet_Crumble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 07:35 PM Response to Reply #15 |
36. Both Sharon and Arafat are/were powerful symbols... |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 01:09 AM Response to Reply #36 |
52. then the trick didnt work.... |
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Violet_Crumble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 05:22 PM Response to Reply #52 |
84. Of course it's worked... |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 05:40 PM Response to Reply #84 |
85. its not a divert attention.... |
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Violet_Crumble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-09-06 06:55 AM Response to Reply #85 |
89. Sorry, but it's been a very successful diversionary tactic... |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-14-06 02:03 AM Response to Reply #89 |
108. of course its self interest... |
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Wordie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 08:15 PM Response to Reply #15 |
39. Sharon was directly responsible for the Sabra and Chatilla massacres. |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 02:17 AM Response to Reply #39 |
57. massacres? |
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Wordie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 02:55 AM Response to Reply #57 |
59. One last try. |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 07:16 AM Response to Reply #59 |
66. please... |
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Wordie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 08:26 AM Response to Reply #66 |
76. understanding... |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 05:52 PM Response to Reply #76 |
87. ok....n/t |
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Tom Joad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 06:09 PM Response to Reply #3 |
33. Why not remember Qibya massacre? Jenin? Nablus? The current destruction |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 01:19 AM Response to Reply #33 |
53. the jenin massacre? |
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Tom Joad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 03:04 AM Response to Reply #53 |
61. The war crimes in Jenin were very real. |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 08:08 AM Response to Reply #61 |
74. the massacre.... |
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Violet_Crumble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-09-06 08:15 AM Response to Reply #74 |
91. The residents of Jenin were trying to killl Israelis?? |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-10-06 01:45 PM Response to Reply #91 |
97. urban combat.... |
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Violet_Crumble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-11-06 02:36 AM Response to Reply #97 |
99. Don't you see anything wrong with attacking a city like that? |
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eyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-11-06 05:26 AM Response to Reply #99 |
100. Yeah, |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-11-06 05:36 AM Response to Reply #99 |
101. several suggestions?..... |
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Violet_Crumble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-13-06 08:13 PM Response to Reply #101 |
106. Yeah, go back and read the thread... |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-14-06 01:51 AM Response to Reply #106 |
107. but no suggestions..... |
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Violet_Crumble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-14-06 03:35 AM Response to Reply #107 |
109. It was a suggestion... |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-14-06 04:01 AM Response to Reply #109 |
110. i've got lots of suggestions.... |
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eyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-14-06 07:23 AM Response to Reply #106 |
111. Not good enough |
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Englander (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 06:24 AM Response to Original message |
6. Sharon's legacy does not include peace |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 01:57 PM Response to Reply #6 |
18. his legacy...is what the article ignores.... |
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Coastie for Truth (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 09:40 AM Response to Original message |
13. My wife, my son, and I visited Temple Mount in August 1980 |
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Englander (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 01:34 PM Response to Reply #13 |
16. That's nice. |
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Coastie for Truth (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 02:42 PM Response to Reply #16 |
21. Israeli Left Wing |
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Englander (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 07:43 AM Response to Reply #21 |
70. "Interns of Peace" I've heard of. |
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Coastie for Truth (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 11:41 AM Response to Reply #70 |
78. Why do some |
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Englander (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 01:51 PM Response to Reply #78 |
81. ~~Whooosh!!~~ |
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Coastie for Truth (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 01:53 PM Response to Reply #81 |
82. Sir Mark was a man of peace |
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barb162 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 03:02 PM Response to Reply #16 |
23. here |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 04:21 PM Response to Reply #23 |
25. he was the excuse.... |
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barb162 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 12:18 AM Response to Reply #25 |
49. good points, Pelsar |
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Englander (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 07:51 AM Response to Reply #49 |
72. Uh-oh! |
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Englander (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 07:48 AM Response to Reply #25 |
71. Isn't that a bit of a prejudiced attitude? |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 08:11 AM Response to Reply #71 |
75. they've got loads of greivances... |
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Violet_Crumble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 07:43 PM Response to Reply #23 |
38. Gosh, maybe coz it was Sharon and lots of troops? |
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barb162 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 12:17 AM Response to Reply #38 |
48. From your link:The Sharon visit did not cause the "Al-Aqsa Intifada |
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Violet_Crumble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 04:43 AM Response to Reply #48 |
62. I haven't claimed the visit caused it.. |
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Englander (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 08:03 AM Response to Reply #23 |
73. Here's an article that, hopefully, sheds some light - |
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Tom Joad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 09:18 PM Response to Reply #13 |
41. Coastie, were you accompanied by hundreds of Israeli soldiers? |
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Coastie for Truth (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 09:38 PM Response to Reply #41 |
42. Two responses - and a half response. |
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Tom Joad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 10:19 PM Response to Reply #42 |
44. I was talking about why Sharon's action was seen as a provocation. |
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Coastie for Truth (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 10:29 PM Response to Reply #44 |
45. Wrong |
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Tom Joad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 10:52 PM Response to Reply #45 |
46. I know there are many Israeli groups working for justice. |
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Coastie for Truth (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-06-06 11:27 PM Response to Reply #46 |
47. I think you under rate the forces of the Progressive Left |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 02:07 AM Response to Reply #44 |
56. i shall withhold my initial reaction..... |
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Violet_Crumble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 05:03 PM Response to Reply #56 |
83. Israel treated the Palestinians decently in 48 and 67??? |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 05:43 PM Response to Reply #83 |
86. not being "nice" |
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Violet_Crumble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-09-06 06:41 AM Response to Reply #86 |
88. Israel wasn't nice to the Palestinians... |
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eyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-09-06 07:55 AM Response to Reply #88 |
90. Don't forget |
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Violet_Crumble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-09-06 08:18 AM Response to Reply #90 |
92. That doesn't make what Israel did okay.... |
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eyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-09-06 11:25 AM Response to Reply #92 |
93. ..` |
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Violet_Crumble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-10-06 08:47 AM Response to Reply #93 |
94. Take a look at page 39 |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-10-06 09:34 AM Response to Reply #94 |
95. east jerusalem.. |
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eyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-10-06 09:55 AM Response to Reply #94 |
96. Saw that |
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Violet_Crumble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-11-06 02:25 AM Response to Reply #96 |
98. The original agreement was about attacking the new Arab state... |
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eyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-11-06 08:24 AM Response to Reply #98 |
102. You noted upthread |
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Coastie for Truth (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-07-06 11:49 AM Response to Original message |
79. OPEN INVITATION TO ALL DUers ON I/P |
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occuserpens (836 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-11-06 02:08 PM Response to Original message |
103. If this is not absolutism then what is? |
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eyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-12-06 04:16 AM Response to Reply #103 |
104. ??? |
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occuserpens (836 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-12-06 08:15 PM Response to Reply #104 |
105. This is a comment |
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