Gaza militants reject storing arms for vote - minister

[Behind the Aegis]

Militants in Gaza have rejected a Palestinian Authority plan to put their weapons in storage during next week's parliamentary election as a way to reduce the risk of violence, the Palestinian Interior Minister Nasser Yousef said yesterday.

Fears of chaos during next Wednesday's ballot are strong in the Gaza Strip, where lawlessness has grown since Israel's withdrawal last August intensified a power struggle among armed factions and security forces.

Yousef said a proposal had been made for factions in Gaza to collect their own weapons just before the vote and put them into a storage area to which they would have one key and the Palestinian Authority another.

"But they rejected the proposal," Yousef said.

more...

[barb162]

1. de Soto seems like a pretty smart guy

"Ultimately in a democracy you cannot have both participation in elected office and participation in armed militia. They are simply incompatible," de Soto said."

[bemildred]

2. A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,

the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

[pelsar]

3. which militia?

is "well regulated"? Al aska, fatah, Islamic jihad......and of course i hadnt realize that the PA is now using the US constitution as their model.

so does this mean you pro the gazan version of governing style?

[bemildred]

4. Nobody insists that I (in the USA) give up my arms in order to vote.

Nobody insists that Israelis give up their arms in order to vote.
Nobody insists that Iraqis give up their arms in order to vote.
Nobody insists that anybody else give up their arms in order to vote.
Where else is any people asked to give up their arms in order to vote?
Why should Palestinians give up their arms in order to vote?

[pelsar]

5. are you serious?......

perhaps because the palestenains want their "militias to stop kidnapping their visitors, their klan wars to stop?..........

perhaps because they need a singular authority to provide security instead a rabble of kids with AK-47s?

[bemildred]

6. Yes, I'm serious.

And the things you point out have nothing to do with voting, as I pointed out.

[pelsar]

7. except the palestenians disagree.... as does the EU

"A group claiming to belong to al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades is continuing to make specific threats against EU officials in the run up to the 25 January parliamentary elections"

http://euobserver.com/9/20641

nothing like having bunchs of extremists running around on election day with AK47s and calling it democracy....

[bemildred]

8. So, did "the palestenians" vote on that, or what?

How do you know what "the palestenians" think?

I simply pointed out that nowhere else is the surrender of one's arms a condition of voting, not even in Iraq. Now why is that? Because if one makes that a condition, the "insurgents" will keep their arms and not be drawn into the "political process", thus having the effect of maintaining the status quo.

Do the fruitcake settlers turn in their guns when they vote?

[barb162]

21. It doesn't "look nice" to bring the guns to the election offices

in front of the world press. People and nations tend to stop donating money as is happening now with the EU and other nations threatening to do the same.

[Coastie for Truth]

10. If you go into a voting place in Pennsylvania ARMED

you will be arrested - unless you are a sworn officer in a duty status. The law in Pennsylvania is the law.

I was on a local Elections Board in Pennsylvania and had my Commonwealth of Pennsylvania Elections Officer training.

And it was in my "Elections Officals Guide" and in my "Purdons for Dummies - Elections"

[bemildred]

11. Good for Pennsylvania.

I'm sure it would be distracting for the other voters.

[barb162]

24. Maybe you can explain why in the countries you mentioned

including the US and Israel, people just generally don't take large guns with them, especially to voting offices. Quite a lot of people think guns are a form of harassment, including me.

[bemildred]

29. That's not the issue, why should I "explain" it?

I'm just pointing out that they WILL NOT give up their guns.
In witness of that I point to this story:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x112242

[Coastie for Truth]

14. Did you hear this one

Old Joe runs for County Sheriff (I'm from Appalachia). And out of 500 registered voters in the county, Old Joe only gets 22 vote.

Next day Old Charlie sees Old Joe comin' out of the watering hole, and he's got two six guns and a Thompson. Old Charlie says "Hey Joe, you didn't get elected Sheriff, why all the fire power?"

Old Joe says "Heck, with as many kin folk as I got, if I only got 22 votes, I need to be armed."

:rofl: Appalachin Hill Billie Joke for the day :rofl:

[bemildred]

16. That is a good one.

:thumbsup:

[barb162]

22. bwa!

[barb162]

23. Why is the Palestinian government asking Palestinians

to do this? They are not being asked to give them up forever but just for voting day really. It's all about marketing to the world press; don't show up at the voting stations with your automatic guns. It's sad they have to ask this and sadder still that the armed groups refused. And positively disastrous if they start shooting each other on election day

[Coastie for Truth]

9. Very good BUT

In Pennsylvania, any armed person, be he/she an armed militia member or an armed law enforcement person can not enter the polling place except that an armed cop can enter to vote.

Don't know the intricacies of the interface between gun laws and elections laws elsewhere.

[bemildred]

12. Your average Palestinian terrorist has every reason to expect that he

might need to defend himself in the course of carrying out his civic duties, and it is therefore folly to ask him to allow his enemies to lock away his guns. That is my point.

[pelsar]

13. so the PA

is now the enemy of the palestenians?......

[bemildred]

15. ROFL.

:rofl:

[pelsar]

17. you wrote it.....

therefore folly to ask him to allow his enemies to lock away his guns.

----------

Militants in Gaza have rejected a Palestinian Authority plan to put their weapons in storage during next week's parliamentary election as a way to reduce the risk of violence, the Palestinian Interior Minister Nasser Yousef said yesterday.

its the PA that is asking to put away the guns...and your claiming that "they are the enemy"....very bizarre.

[bemildred]

18. It is you that equates

"average Palestinian terrorist" with "the palestenians".
That is what is funny. It is certainly true that the PA
and Hamas, for instance, are political enemies.

[pelsar]

19. and you know the differences..

between the clan wars in beit chanon, vs the clan wars in Rafah?.....and various gun man from gaza being from hamas, or the bedouin from n.gaza belonging to al-alska...etc etc etc.....and who belong to which militia at what time and when they are civilians?.....

and for all that mess, and all their blood feuds......you believe everyone should carry guns?

and since when do political enemies have to carry guns to protect themselves? (the problem is not the PA vs hamas, so far they're very careful not to get into any kind of gun battle)

very strange way of supporting the palestenians: everyone should carry guns.....just in case, so much for the idea of a single authority.....

[bemildred]

20. "since when do political enemies have to carry guns to protect themselves"

You can't be serious? When has politics not been about murder and the use of weapons? It is true that there are times and places where politics has been conducted in an orderly manner, but that is far from the rule, and far from the situation in the case before us.

FWIW, I am not "supporting the palestenians", I am simply pointing out the facts of the case here.

[pelsar]

26. facts?

you stated clearly:
Your average Palestinian terrorist has every reason to expect that he
might need to defend himself in the course of carrying out his civic duties

i belive that is same defense the "gangbangers use in downtown USA".....they have to carry 'just in case".

whereas if it was enforced by a the 'authority" then no one has to carry outside of the single security forces, those are also the facts in the case......having all those weapons around threatens everyone, as do their gun battles who kill quite a few of the "non involved"

[barb162]

28. Hey quit trashing US gangs.

Tony Soprano will take great umbrage

[bemildred]

30. I don't see your point.

You seem to be arguing with me, but I don't disagree with what you say. Tentatively, I have to assume you don't understand what I have said previously.

[barb162]

27. Most often in civilized societies political enemies aren't carrying

guns. At least in this day and age. In most present day civilized societies politics is not at all about "murder and the use of weapons"

I am wondering about which present day countries you're thinking. Norway? Canada? USA? Japan?

[bemildred]

31. Who said anything about civilized? nt

[barb162]

25. That's why the request went to all the armed groups

then no one has to worry about defending themselves