Daughter raped by brothers, murdered by mother....

[pelsar]

A Palestinian girl who was raped and impregnated by her two brothers was later murdered by her own mother – even though her daughter was the crime's innocent victim – in another of the disturbingly common, if vastly underreported, instances of "honor killings.

Under the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, at least 25 "official" honor killings occur each year, says Emery, but the actual number of deaths is much higher.

Because honor killings are accorded special status, murderers serve little or no jail time, the anthropologist notes. Some men convicted of premeditated murder serve as little as three months and are treated as celebrities by family and friends upon release.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=35663

or.....

Soraida Hussein, head of research for Jerusalem’s Women’s Centre for Legal Aid and Counselling said, “Honor killing is nothing new... what is new is the whole wave of killing in 2005

Recently in Gaza and the West Bank, Hamas has defined a new role for itself in guarding the morality of young Muslim women. A group of men who identified itself as a Hamas “morality squad” attacked 19-year-old Yousra al-Azam after she had sat at the beach with her husband-to-be and another couple. She was shot in the head and died in the street as her murderers beat her with batons. The growing influence of Hamas with its fundamentalist interpretations of Islamic law is concerning women’s groups, which fear it will gain power and moral legitimacy in the coming elections.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=20935

___________________________________

for those who ask why is this relevant to the I/P conflict?.....because a failed independant palestinian society (or a fanatical hamas inspired theorcracy) will have an affect upon israel. Just as the kassams/gang wars from gaza seem to interest no one, once granted further independence, a potential downward spiral will no longer interest those "caring individuals from the left.

will any of them volunteer to go to the westbank once israel is gone and left with the mess?...just like in gaza the answer is no. The shortsightedness of "independance now" is potentially a death sentence to hundreds of Palestinian women (and gays) in in palestine. Who cares?....unfortunatly just as israel takes in some of the more extreme cases no doubt israel will have to take in additional refugees from a failed palistenian state.

the irresponsability of the those who propose an immediate end to the occupation is offset by their lack of interest in gaza today, a semi independent society. Their interference and lack of understanding may very well condem the paletinians to an existance far worse than then the israeli occupation....as many palestenains have already commented on, but thats just them, what do they know.

[Jim Sagle]

1. But hey, at least she was free of Israeli oppression.

[mike_c]

2. ahh, the white man's burden...

...it's hard work keeping the poor savages safe from their own worst inclinations. :puke:

[pelsar]

3. no its an israeli problem...

whether the palestinians kill themselves is hardly my concern....however a failed palestinian society and is subsequent chaos is very much an israeli concern. The UN wont get involved as it will be considered an internal problem or wont have the stomach for gun battles)....but they're problems will (as in gaza for those who know anything about it) will find their expression in attempts in killing israelis.

[Coastie for Truth]

5. If she had been raped by an Israeli settler

there would have been a call for an emergency session of the UN Security Council.

[barb162]

13. Try viewing it as a patriarchal system's systematic discrimination

of the basic human rights of women. Then you would be correct

http://www.phrmg.org/monitor2002/Aug2002.htm

"Therefore, the phenomenon of killing Palestinian women on the basis of family honor family exists, as shown clearly in cases available at women’s centers, police records and newspapers. This phenomenon represents a crime that is characterized as discrimination against women, who form half the society. This crime has been in existence in the Palestinian community for decades, but it hasn’t received much attention in the last few years because of the focus on the political conflict, and the first Uprising (Intifada, between December 1987 and September 1993) rather than the social difficulties. After the Oslo peace accords, the political situation was relatively stable. This led to having more centers open to look after women issues, especially to deal with problems of violence against women.

The study of this subject stems out from the wide scope of this phenomenon in the Palestinian society. Therefore, the Palestinian Human Rights Monitoring Group decided to investigate this issue, and analyze how local society handles it. Although many of the women who feel threatened seek help from legal and women’s centers, few studies have been done on this subject.

[Violet_Crumble]

18. Yeah, very much so....

n/t

[Coastie for Truth]

4. And then there's this story

referring to this New York Times article ... if she had been a Palestinian woman raped by a settler? And if Israel had even squeaked about the concomitant emergency session of the UN Security Council.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

6. Geez, if my two brothers impregnated me...

well I'd probably kill MYSELF.

No condoning this particular custom, however. It is pretty brutal.

[dusmcj]

7. why not kill them instead ? nt

[barb162]

11. Brutal, sick, sociopathic, etc.

There are far too many examples of this. By and large, the Palestinians have an extremely sexist society and the rights of women are almost non-existent. What rights do the women really have when these crimes continue and the authorities don't prosecute?

http://www.gendercide.org/case_honour.html

"Honour" killings are also regularly reported in the Palestinian territories of the West Bank and Gaza Strip. In the Canadian women's magazine Chatelaine, Sally Armstrong described the fate of one victim:


Flirting was a costly mistake for Samera. She was only 15 years old when her neighbours in Salfeet, a small Palestinian town on the West Bank, saw her chatting with a young man without a male chaperone. Her family's honour was at stake; a marriage was quickly arranged. By 16, she had a child. Five years later, when she could stand the bogus marriage no longer, she bolted. In a place where gossip is traded like hard currency, and a girl's chastity is as public as her name, Samera's actions were considered akin to making a date with the devil. According to the gossips, she went from man to man as she moved from place to place. Finally, last July <1999>, her family caught up with her. A few days later she was found stuffed down a well. Her neck had been broken. Her father told the coroner she'd committed suicide. But everyone on the grapevine knew that Samera was a victim of honour killing, murdered by her own family because her actions brought dishonour to their name. ... Here in the West Bank, the Palestinian Authority law allows honour killing. Samera's parents are walking the streets of their neighbourhood with their heads held high, relieved that the family honour has been restored. (Armstrong, "Honour's Victims", Chatelaine, March 2000.)
snip

[Violet_Crumble]

17. There are crimes against women in all societies...

And authorities will overlook or minimise them, that's even if the crimes are even reported. Are those societies also brutal, sociopathic and sick, where women have almost non-existent rights, even though like Palestinian women they vote and work, etc?

Violet...

[barb162]

38. Women in some societies have an enormous problem with

basic human rights as compared to other societies. When the crime against the woman is accepted in the society, then the society has the problem and the society has to change either through its laws and/ or enforcement and/or its cultural acceptance of these crimes.

[Violet_Crumble]

47. I asked you if you considered those societies sick and sociopathic..

Or is that sort of vitriol only reserved for Arab/Muslim societies? You do realise that I was talking about societies that aren't Arab or Muslim, I hope...

Violet...

[barb162]

16. Then you'd be playing right into that sociopath mother's game

in the story, where she was handing (encouraging/harassing) the razor blades to the raped daughter to kill herself. That woman and her sons SO need heavy duty therapy (and jail cells)

[WinkyDink]

8. The stories all seem to involve Muslims, by and large.

Not saying "honor killings" NEVER happen with other people/cultures/religions/social class/intelligence; just sayin'.

[barb162]

14. "Yet it is a phenomenon that continues in the Arab world. "

The Palestinian Human Rights Monitor
The bi-monthly publication of the PHRMG

Honor Killing



"...Killing of women on the basis of family honor is considered one of the forms of discrimination against woman and is a serious violation to her basic human rights.

... Yet it is a phenomenon that continues in the Arab world.


The issue of women rights often causes uneasy discussions, particularly in the Arab world. Although the Arab woman has made great advances in the academic and professional fields during the last forty years, she still faces social discrimination, especially in traditional rural communities. In those societies, the woman is still treated in a traditional manner, with negligence to her basic rights. She is regarded as being inferior to man, and not deserving to enjoy the same rights. This belief is based and built upon a long series of customs and traditions. Despite the fact that the Arab woman has attained some of her rights in the last few decades, there are still some instances of discrimination and violence practiced against her. Some of those are reflected in the phenomenon of killing women on the background of the honor of the family. Honor killing is considered to be a crime that threatens the unity and harmony of the community, and it acts as a barrier preventing women from progressing in their lives.


http://www.phrmg.org/monitor2002/Aug2002.htm

[barb162]

9. The article makes no mention of what is happening to those dear

darling incestuous brothers of this crime victim. And the mother will most likely get off with a light sentence. What is wrong with this picture? Lots! Palestinian government and society, by giving light and/ or no sentences to these types of vicious crimes, such as rape and murder, in effect, looks the other way and condones them.

[Violet_Crumble]

45. Barb, this happened two years ago, not recently...

So can you give the link you've got to what punishment was handed out, if any?

Violet...

[Burning Water]

10. Lovely people n/t

[FOM]

12. Every society has its wackos

Honor killing may or may not be a problem amongst the Pals, but focusing on one incident means nothing.

[barb162]

15. They may not be a problem? One incident? ONE?? Read this

http://www.phrmg.org/monitor2002/Aug2002.htm

The crimes of killing women on the background of family honor are not something new, but people prefer to keep such cases within the family. And when such crimes occur and the police know about it, they often register them under ‘family disputes’ or find other reasons to explain the killing. (Woman Center for Social and Legal Counseling, 2001, page 32)

snip
However, meetings with heads of families (Mukhtars) in the south of the West Bank, Hebron area, revealed that many similar actual crimes of killing women would not be known, since people keep them hidden. (Kivrokian, 2001, 67)

This fact suggests that there are number of women who are killed on the background of honor of the family without any documentation. As for the views of the heads of the families themselves, they supported the killing of women for the honor of the family, because violating the honor brings shame and disgrace to the family (to the males). (Kivorkian, 2001, page 65)

The study found out that the majority of women who are threatened by killing on the basis of family honor were from villages (18), from towns (9) from refugee camps (6) and from Bedouins (1). This shows that village women feel the threat more than others. The study affirmed that the option of killing women is socially acceptable, especially in the north and south of the West Bank, less in the center. (Kivorkian, 2001, page 43)

[Tom Joad]

19. To delink the violence of the occupation to violence against women

is not helpful to our understanding of the situation.

Gender violence is to a large extent endemic in Palestinian highly traditional society, and is significantly aggravated by the harsh political and economic pressures that people are facing in the state of violence in Palestine.

Certainly I think it would be helpful here to look for solutions (though some here are uninterested in such things, but only as this issue relates to Israel, and how this issue can be used to demonize the Palestinians), not imposed from without, but from within Palestinian society itself. Shouldn't we let Palestinian women speak for themselves?

http://www.ccmep.org/2003_articles/Palestine/111003_occupation_patriarchy.htm
Occupation, Patriarchy, and the Palestinian Women's Movement

What is the Israeli military Occupation?

The creation of the Israeli state in 1948 resulted in the expulsion of 750,000 Palestinian refugees, who, along with their descendants, have been denied the right to return to their homeland ever since. Of the Palestinians who managed to remain within the new borders of Israel, many of them were internally displaced and are denied the same rights allotted to Jewish citizens. Following 1967, the Israeli state occupied by military force the areas known as the Gaza Strip and West Bank. Since this time, Palestinians living in the Gaza Strip and West Bank (also referred to as the Occupied Palestinian Territories) have been denied a state of their own and continue to live under a foreign colonial rule. The continued occupation of the Palestinian Territories is maintained largely by foreign aid, particularly from the US.

How does the Israeli military occupation of Palestine perpetuate patriarchy within Palestinian society?

Generally speaking, the Israeli occupation of Palestine is not recognized internationally as an important factor in the ongoing existence of patriarchy in Palestinian society. However, numerous studies have shown that the ongoing Israeli occupation is a key factor in the maintenance of patriarchy in Palestinian society.

Israeli occupation has undermined the Palestinian right to self- determination and has thus impeded the development of a Palestinian constitution or legal institutions. In the absence of indigenous legal institutions, Palestinian women have been governed by foreign archaic laws and have been unable to use the legal realm as a means of gaining rights.

For example, the personal status law used in the Palestinian Occupied Territories is a combination of repressive and outdated components of Ottoman law, British Empire law, and pre-suffrage movement Jordanian law. In addition, the components of the Ottoman law that are in use predate the secular movement, and are thus based on sharia (religious) law. Without the establishment of an independent state, it is impossible to develop an indigenous legal framework that can defend Palestinian women’s rights- and this is a direct result of the Israeli occupation.

[barb162]

20. 1/18/06 Amnesty International's take on honor killings and human

rights violations of Palestinian women


"... Changes must also be made to the Palestinian laws which grant Palestinian women fewer rights and less protection than their male counterparts.

“In addition to the suffering they have endured as a result of decades of Israeli occupation and conflict, Palestinian women have also been killed or subjected to violence and abuse at the hands of their male relatives on grounds of 'family honour', and are negatively affected by laws and practices which institutionalize inequality and discrimination against women, and deny women their fundamental rights," said Amnesty International.

The organization called on the parliamentary candidates to condemn the murder and other abuses of women in the name of "honour", and urged them to work to amend laws which discriminate against women.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/palestinian_authority/document.do?id=ENGMDE210032006

[Tom Joad]

22. Yes, Amnesty also does not delink the oppression of the occupation

to gender violence.

"Decades of Israeli military occupation, frequent Israeli attacks on PA security installations and military blockades around Palestinian towns and villages have hindered the functioning of PA institutions, crippled the Palestinian economy, and contributed to the deterioration in the internal Palestinian security situation."
http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/palestinian_authority/document.do?id=ENGMDE210032006

[pelsar]

26. .....blame israel....

except that its happening in jordan, Egypt, Syria, Iran, Iraq, and everyother arab/islamic country?......

the exuse that "its the law is precisly that "an excuse".......the PA has a judicial system

once more we hear the infamous...."but but its israels fault we kill our women for "honor"....

[Violet_Crumble]

43. It happens in Israel too...

And no-one has said it's Israel's fault. Maybe you could point out where this has actually been said in this thread?

Violet...

[barb162]

31. What's this linking /delinking stuff, Tom?

If you agree some truly horrible discrimination against women, including killings, has been going on for centuries, I don't know why you look at it with or without Israel. Israel has nothing to do with this, it doesn't have honor killings happening in its society and it's therefore not germane to the discussion. Family honor, male pride, patriarchy, devaluation of women, etc., appear to be the important concepts for these basic and serious human rights violations against Palestinian women, not the society (Israel) next door that isn't doing or encouraging these things.

Solutions? There are many hundreds if not thousands of discussions on this in sociology texts, research papers, university conferences, etc. As a matter of fact one of the major Palestinian universities had a conference on this some months ago and I provided a link for it back then. Besides all of the hundreds of years long acceptance of this in society and culture and how difficult it is to stop these atrocious acts of violence and to get society/culture to change, one of the things mentioned in the one conference is to get the police involved, then of course the courts have to start giving real sentences on these crimes, instead of slaps on the wrists or no sentences at all. Some brave Palestinian women and men are working on stopping these sick practices and it will be years and years before it is fully stopped, since long-held traditions in societies don't usually change all that quickly.

You commented "...it would be helpful...for solutions (though some here are uninterested in such things, but only as this issue relates to Israel, and how this issue can be used to demonize the Palestinians)...." I find this statement of yours not only strikingly peculiar, but dead wrong. Who on this board finds that these honor killings, this level of abuse, basic human rights violations against women, etc., are not appalling on every level and on their very face.

In the article you linked, 6th paragraph copied, on the personal status law, it should be noted that if (when) Hamas wins these elections, they will most likely institute sharia more strictly than it is now. I just read another article today where another top Hamas leader said sharia religious law will go in if Hamas wins. If that happens, kiss the fledgling Palestinian women's rights movement goodbye. If Hamas gets in,I think solutions to these types of crimes against women will not happen and Palestinian women's basic human rights will be even more restricted than they are now. These brutal crimes against women will just get swept under the rug even more than now.

[Tom Joad]

21. Your "news sources" are highly questionable. Extremist. Hateful.

WorldNet Daily is one of the most extreme rightwing "News" websites. One look at its site and you see many ads for Pat Boone, extremist and nut, prominently on its homepage. It is a proud distributer of Ann Coutler... whose extremism has been throughly discussed here at DU and she has been discredited. They have no qualms, unlike her regular distributer, letting Ann say that Helen Thomas is an "old Arab" as an insult.
A general overview of the site would lead any liberal to believe it is not a source of good information.
See http://mediamatters.org/items/200412140007 and http://mediamatters.org/items/200503090001

what about FrontPageMag.com? Well, one of their regular contributers is Cinnamon Stillwell, whose writings was discussed in another thread not so long ago. She called the Jewish Defense League (a group she supports), "guilty of nothing more than self-defense", even while its leaders were convicted of plotting to bomb a mosque. Another personality that looms large at FrontPageMag is David Horowitz. He is busy tying in Osama, the Revolutionary Communist Party, the Sierra Club, John Kerry, and the World Wildlife Federation into one grand network to destroy all that is good and decent.

http://mediamatters.org/issues_topics/search_results?qstring=david+horowitz

People are certainly should be allowed to read such drivel. To cite from such publications however may discredit you from being called "progressive" or discerning.

[Tom Joad]

23. As if WorldNetDaily supporters Pat Boone & Falwell are known for their

support for gender-equality and women's rights.

[barb162]

32. There's plenty more where this one came from

courtesy from the people who are trying to stop these crimes against women
http://www.phrmg.org/monitor2002/Aug2002.htm

[Scurrilous]

24. This piece is over two years old:

Posted: November 18, 2003
1:00 a.m. Eastern
© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com


All threads must be based on material originally published no more than 3 weeks ago.

[pelsar]

25. new and old...

the news is neither right or left, its a cultural aspect of the palestenian society today....and its quite irrelevant of the occupation since the same goes on in jordan, Egypt, Syrian, iraq, iran, pakistan..in fact in every arab/islamic country.

so the "its the occupation" is clearly an attempt to blame israel for something that has little to do with israel.


worse, very little of that news gets out since its considered "private"....and interesting enough NONE of the websites that worry about the palestenians democratic rights, etc etc etc, every mention them.

funny, one has to find a right wing site to find people who right about the lack of womens rights in the territories..and then the "left complains" about them.....isnt that up side down?

[thebigidea]

27. yeah, funny one has to find a right wing site from SEVERAL YEARS AGO.

[Behind the Aegis]

28. Not as funny, as it is sad.

Why aren't the supposed compassionate liberals hitting this head on?

[Tom Joad]

29. Still the sources are extremely racist & unreliable.

The sources (frontpagemag and WorldNetDaily) purpose in writing (creating?) these stories is merely to condemn a whole people, to incite hatred. I do not even think the story is reliable, though it is not denied that Israel and Palestine have problems in promoting and ensuring women's rights.

I can't believe that we would have a post at DU citing a website that hawks Falwell and Pat Boone and Ann Coutler, and then have us believe that they are concerned about gender equality, about women's empowerment.

[Behind the Aegis]

30. Interesting.

You say: "I can't believe that we would have a post at DU citing a website that hawks Falwell and Pat Boone and Ann Coutler, and then have us believe that they are concerned about gender equality, about women's empowerment." It is the way I feel when I see IHR, Pat Buchanan, and Pat Robertson sponsored sites cited and then they claim they aren't anti-Jewish. But, it happens.

I question the use of both sources, because they are also known for anti-Semitic filth. However, the issue of honor killing is very real, and very much a problem in the Muslim/Arabic communities. It needs to be addressed, as well.

[Tom Joad]

34. Have you references to this?

People here are praising Pat Robertson? Who supports the whole "Greater Israel" and "God gave it all to Jewish People" line? Who or what is supporting him? I can't imagine those who feel that Palestinians aren't getting a fair deal would cite him approvingly... since he thinks Palestinians should have even less, and i have never seen anyone who supports Israeli policy support his stuff either (because of his weird theology, which should be rejected). You can't be serious. If you are, give us a link.

Or the IHR (I assume you are talking about the Institute for Historical Review? If it is cited in the context for getting useful information (rather than to critique of the site and its contents), then i would join you in sending an alert on it. It certainly is a hate site and those who think it has any value then they do not belong anywhere on DU, certainly not in this forum. IHR writes fiction for hate.
Got references to those posts that support it? Have they been deleted as would be appropriate?

I think the same should apply to Frontpagemag.com & WorldNetDaily.
More Fiction writers.

[Behind the Aegis]

41. Simple searches.

Use simple searches. Use the advanced search for the longer history.

People use Pat Robertson to defame Israel and Israeli positions, as if he speaks for Israel or her people. As you correctly assert, those of us who are supportive of Israel are not the ones using the sources. It is the other Pat, Buchanan, that gets used more here as a source by some supporting their anti-Israeli arguments.

The IHR (yes, you are correct in your assumption) has been used a number of times here. One poster even argued it was just a different perspective! Those cites are spirited away, but are used nonetheless.

As I said before, I don't care for either site, as they are also anti-Semitic, in my opinion. There are definitely better written articles out there. Barb has provided on such site.

(note: I was using the search feature earlier, and it was "acting up.")

[Tom Joad]

50. Again, references to hate sites, when used for sources of supposed

solid information, should be disappeared. You said that the ones in regard to ihr have been, and all that is good. I would alert on that as quick as anyone else.

Just as you cannot control who supports Israeli policies (I suspect you may wish Pat not be seen as doing so, because he invites ridicule) I cannot control those who speak against those policies.

There are some who i would consider truly great men and women of our time who struggle against the injustice of Israeli occupation... the Late Edward Said, Desmond Tutu, Noam Chomsky, Dr. Hanan Ashrawi and others. Great humanists.

Then there are those others, whose may say some platitudes about justice for Palestine, who i would agree are just filled with hate. I don't want to have anything to do with such people. However they exist whether i want them to or not.

They should not post here. Neither should clearly anti-Arab sites be used. That was the agreement. Until today, it seems.

btw, i cannot do a search, as that is reserved for contributers... maybe someday i will be one. Certainly need for more moderators at DU.

[Behind the Aegis]

51. Didn't notice the lack of the star.

My apologies. I wouldn't have suggested a search. If this thread stays unlocked, I will go search and report back.

Incidentally, both these sites have been used to support anti-Israeli sentiment, bordering (sometimes crossing) anti-Semitic rhetoric, which is why I also don't like them.

[barb162]

33. Is the BBC biased? Here's one from a few months ago

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/4522465.stm

Last Updated: Saturday, 7 May, 2005, 10:44 GMT 11:44 UK



Killed for the family's honour

By Orla Guerin
BBC News, Ramallah


There is growing concern among Palestinian human rights workers after the killings of at least six young women in recent months. The murders are described in some quarters as "honour killings". The victims are usually accused of behaving improperly and bringing shame upon their families. Orla Guerin has been piecing together some of the victims' stories.


snip

[Tom Joad]

37. The original post implies that no one in Palestinian society is doing

anything about the problem. (I never denied that one did not exist). If you look at that bbc news story, it shouws that Palestinian human rights workers are concerned about the killings.

Palestinians can and will deal with this issue. Also, as was stated in an earlier post, you cannot delink the context of the occupation to the presence of violence against women.

I think the violence that is becoming more prevalent in Israeli society (outside any kind of attacks by Palestinians) is also linked to the militarization of Israeli society. Which is the kind of society Israel is condemned to as long as it keeps another people oppressed.

[barb162]

48. I didn't see the implication that you saw in the original article

I saw it simply as a honor killings news item with an anthropologist making a few comments. Whatever.
The BBC story with the Pal. HR workers was written differently but both stories were written in a serious manner. I don't know how or why you think the Palestinians will work on this issue, which really needs solutions, if Hamas' idea is to get sharia institutionalized in their society. I think the opposite will happen.

[barb162]

35. Here's an article on what various Pal. women's rights

groups are doing on the subject (summary)

http://www.merip.org/mer/mer206/ruggi.htm

The fact is, whether it is Front Page or not, these crimes are happening.

[Tom Joad]

49. Exactly my point. Palestinian women rights groups are active,

and they deserve our support. This would have been a better article to discuss, yet it was not the one cited. Even this article, that seems undated, seems to go back nearly a whole decade, as they give dates for studies around 1996 or 1997. Still, i will grant you it is a better citation, not a story of dubious veracity.

We do have rules, in the I/P forum. We should agree to honor them.

We should agree together that frontpagemag.com, like IHR, are sources that should not be cited or useful for our discussion at any time.

[Scurrilous]

36. Not only is this thread based on a 2 year old article...

...but it's also a dupe:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=124&topic_id=32111

[barb162]

39. see post 33

[Tom Joad]

40. See I/P forum rules.

[barb162]

44. I know the rules

but the subject matter is still valid (true) even though it's two years old as MSM reports on these events also

[Violet_Crumble]

46. Then start a thread with something recent...

That way people are displaying that they know the rules :)

[Violet_Crumble]

42. The article was over two years old...

I thought it was against the rules of the forum to start threads with articles that old, but it looks like I must have misunderstood the rules. Though I'm very reassured that sites like those two conservative sites you posted from aren't actually raving bigots who look for anything to use as a tool to attack the Palestinian people and their society, but caring and compassionate feminists who care deeply about the plight of women everywhere <end of sarcasm>..

I don't think you've looked anywhere else but at conservative sites before posting this stuff, pelsar. Because there is information written by Palestinian feminists floating around, and you sure as hell won't find it on conservative sites. Only problem is that they're not trying to whitewash the occupation or making bigoted comments about Palestinian society, so they may not make the grade for posting in this forum...

on edit and with hindsight: The article that started this thread and was used for the title of the thread was over two years old. This made it look as though this had happened very recently, and the responses from some in the thread confirm that people did think it was a recent event. Comments have been made in the thread that this is a common happening. If that's the case, why resort to dragging up articles that are so old? I question the motives of posting an old article in this manner, because it's recycling the one event. Apart from that, both sources that were used are aimed at convservatives who like nothing better than to demonise Arabs and Muslims, and if people want to get a much more realistic picture of what life is like for Palestinian women, they'd be much better off talking to actual Palestinian women or reading what Palestinian women themselves write...


Violet...

[Lithos]

52. Locking

While the topic is not posted according to I/P guidelines, particularly w/r to topical articles and subject material, the main reason is that the article is considered too biased for use here due to the extreme politicization of a much broader Domestic Violence (DV) against women.

DV against women and the broader Women's right topic discrimination are issues which particularly affects many societies that are patriarchical in nature and which are undergoing change. Honor Killing is wrong as wrong can be, but DV against women is not limited to the PA, Arabs or even Islam and is in fact an issue which affects many societies, and is considered a major problem in Jewish Israel which is also for the most part patriarchical in basis, particularly among the Haredim and recent immigrant population who suffer a higher rate of murder against women than any other group in Israel - including the Arab population.

http://www.no2violence.co.il/Statistics/Statistics010.htm