PM quits, says Hamas must form governmemt

[tocqueville]

9 minutes ago

RAMALLAH, West Bank (AFP) - Palestinian prime minister Ahmed Qorei announced his resignation and said the radical Islamist group Hamas must form the next government after the general election.

The announcement came as Hamas looked set for a stunning victory over Fatah in the Palestinian election, plunging the stalled Middle East peace process into further turmoil.

Senior officials from Fatah, the movement which has dominated Palestinian politics for years, privately acknowledged that they had been beaten into second place by Hamas which was contesting its first parliamentary election.

The central elections commision said the official result would not be announced until 7 pm (1700 GMT), but Hamas was confident that it would now have an absolute majority in the 132-seat parliament.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060126/wl_mideast_afp/mideastpalestinianvoteqorei_060126085234

[BooScout]

1. This should be interesting....

Ya think Bush is going to recognize Democracy in action?

[tocqueville]

3. delete

[still_one]

6. do you think hamas will recognize israel, and its right to exist?

[rodeodance]

32. yes, I think they tire of continuous war and loss of life.

[BooScout]

54. Maybe.......if Israel does the same for Hamas. n/t

[Warpy]

2. Jeez, it's always radicalIslamistgroup, kind of like the way the

right wing always says librulmedia, like it's all one word.

Despite the fulminations coming out of the state department and the mainstream news (as well as the far right propaganda organs), Hamas can't be compartmentalized like that. Yes, they put forth candidates whose speech is, er, intemperate towards Israel and the US. However, they also have many other functions, and provide much of the social services the Palestinian Arabs get.

No, it's not the way we organize political parties, governments, and distribution of social services. However, we can't dismiss them as a bunch of ineffective, shrieking radicals, either. The truth is much more complex than the stuff we're being fed by government and media.

I wish them success, but I don't expect to like them.

[still_one]

7. unless they renounce the total destruction of Israel

and recognize Israel's right to exist, this will mean war

[Matilda]

9. Isn't that what Palestine has already?

All this talk of peace and what have the Palestinians gained? Nominal
control of some dirt in Gaza, where they still can't move without
Israeli permission, and more and more settlements in the West Bank.

Suicide bombings should end, they are totally counter-productive, but
perhaps it's time for some tough - and clever - negotiating with Israel.
So far, the Palestinians have been outwitted and outmanoeuvred at every
turn by Israel.

Israel banned campaigning by Hamas, but they still won. Tells us a lot
about what Palestinians really want from their government.

[still_one]

12. Hamas has never recognized Israel's right to exist

and has called for its total destruction. The Palestinians have NOT been outwitted or outmanouevred by Israel, but by their leadership. Arafat had multiple opportunities which he wasted, and in addition, STOLE millions intended for the Palestinians.

If this is to go anywhere, Hamas has to renounce the total destruction of Israel. If they don't do this, it won't matter what you or I say

[nodehopper]

37. you guys should really move this to the I/P forum

just sayin'

[The Stranger]

42. That post contains so much misinformation, it is difficult where to start.

The Palestinians, as a group, have recognized Israel's right to exist so many times, they convinced themselves of it.

Going all the way back to 1986, Arafat himself went on television and formally and publically recognized Israel's right to exist.

The Likduniks were stunned. So they insisted he did not use the correct terminology. John Chancellor of NBC News stated that the "Israelis will not take 'yes' for an answer."

So Arafat went back on television the next day, and re-recognized Israel, using whatever magic words the Likud had insisted upon.

Yet STILL the Likudniks INSIST that the Palestinians do not recognize (or have not re-re-recognized) Israel's right to exist, because it allows them to prevent the peace process and to continue illegally settling the West Bank and East Jerusalem with Militant, Right-Wing Extremist Settlers.

[channa18]

52. HUH??....New Sport.....Ultimate Political Revisonism

The Palestinians, as a group, have recognized Israel's right to exist so many times, they convinced themselves of it.

oh....must have kept it a secret...OH WISE ONE...PERHAPS YOU CAN SHARE WITH US THE DOUBLE SECRET PAL. COVENANT THAT SAYS ISRAEL HAS A RIGHT TO EXIST...YOU KNOW...THE ONE EVERYONE TALKS ABOUT BUT NO ONE CAN PRODUCE??

Going all the way back to 1986, Arafat himself went on television and formally and publically recognized Israel's right to exist.

he did?...wow...it not like arafat didnt give wonderful talks and did nothing other than pay terrorists

So Arafat went back on television the next day, and re-recognized Israel, using whatever magic words the Likud had insisted upon.

magic my ass....more like playing to the camera

Yet STILL the Likudniks INSIST that the Palestinians do not recognize (or have not re-re-recognized) Israel's right to exist, because it allows them to prevent the peace process and to continue illegally settling the West Bank and East Jerusalem with Militant, Right-Wing Extremist Settlers.

i'm sorry....can you say g a z a ??....not to mention ARMING THE SO-CALLED POLICE?...NOT TO MENTION offering 90+ percent of west bank?{/i]


LAUGHABLE.

[Violet_Crumble]

83. How are hard, cold facts 'historical revisionism'?

Because it's a FACT that the PLO recognised the right of Israel to exist, and this 'double secret pal. covenant' isn't too hard to find if someone actually wants to find it and get a dose of facts over fantasy...

PLO-Israel Letters of Mutual Recognition

Exchange of Letters between PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat & Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin

Letter from Chairman Yasser Arafat to Prime Minister Rabin:

September 9, 1993
Yitzhak Rabin
Prime Minister of Israel

Mr. Prime Minister,

The signing of the Declaration of Principles marks a new era in the history of the Middle East. In firm conviction thereof, I would like to confirm the following PLO commitments:

The PLO recognizes the right of the State of Israel to exist in peace and security.

The PLO accepts United Nations Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338.

The PLO commits itself to the Middle East peace process and to a peaceful resolution of the conflict between the two sides and declares that all outstanding issues relating to permanent status will be resolved through negotiations.

The PLO considers that the signing of the Declaration of Principles constitutes a historic event, inaugurating a new epoch of peaceful coexistence, free from violence and all other acts which will endanger peace and stability. Accordingly, the PLO renounces the use of terrorism and other acts of violence and will assume responsibility over all PLO elements and personnel in order to assure their compliance prevent violations and discipline violators.

In view of the promise of a new era and the signing of the Declaration of Principles and based on Palestinian acceptance of Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338, the PLO affirms that those articles of the Palestinian Covenant which deny Israel’s right to exist, and the provisions of the Covenant which are inconsistent with the commitments of this letter are now inoperative and no longer valid. Consequently, the PLO undertakes to submit to the Palestinian National Council for formal approval the necessary changes in regard to the Palestinian Covenant.

Sincerely,

Yasser Arafat
Chairman
The Palestine Liberation Organization



Letter from Prime Minister Rabin to Yasser Arafat

September 9, 1993

Yasser Arafat
Chairman
The Palestine Liberation Organization

Mr. Chairman,

In response to your letter of September 9, 1993, I wish to inform you that, in light of the PLO commitments included in your letter, the Government of Israel has decided to recognize the PLO as the representative of the Palestinian people and commence negotiations with the PLO within the Middle East peace process.

Yitzhak Rabin
Prime Minister of Israel

http://www.palestine-un.org/peace/p_b.html

Violet...

[channa18]

13. Thats for sure.

Tells us a lot about what Palestinians really want from their government.

Death to israel ??

[gonzo8]

16. Pot calling Kettle, let's do lunch!!

Er, perhaps I missed something, but when did the Likud party in Israel unambiguously recognize the right of a Palestinian state to exist?

[still_one]

20. sorry, the likud party NEVER called for the destruction of Palestinians

hamas has called for the destruction of Israel and the Jews, and that they should be wiped out.

[Matilda]

31. They've never needed to do that.

They're just systematically destroying any hope of a Palestinian
state, and with it the livelihoods and homes of its people.

[wordpix]

39. oh, give it a rest, Arafat had a Palestinian state offered with Clinton as

honest broker and Arafat refused, even as he stole
$$millions (billions?) from the Palestinians.

Stop with the "it's all Israel's fault." Those are not the facts.

[JudyM]

48. That is so twisted. Israel has been at the table despite the

Palestinians' playing dirty, walking away from peace efforts... you want Israel to just back into a corner and fade away, too?

[Violet_Crumble]

91. It'd help if people actually knew a bit about the 'peace' efforts...

This stuff about the good guys (Israel) wanting nothing but peace and falling all over itself to do anything to get it, and the bad guys (Palestinians) being hateful, lying monsters who walk away from it because they want war and death is pretty damn stupid. If people would just take the time to read a bit about the conflict and not rely on the idiocy in the US mainstream media, common sense would prevail, and the world would be just that little bit smarter...

Here's something to think about. Someone steals yr car, and you find you have to enter into negotiations to get it back. There won't be anything in writing, though when it comes to any 'offers'. Not only that, but the mediator doesn't even attempt to be impartial, and you find out that the other party is insisting they keep some crucial bits of yr car without which it won't work, and also keeping other bits for at least fifteen years. There's a whole lot of stuff you won't be able to do with yr car. As for yr siblings who were in the car when it was stolen, they won't be allowed to return to the car and yr told that this particular issue won't be discussed at all. Then you find out that the mediator is actually being told what to say by the folk who stole yr car. If you didn't walk away from that, you'd be a complete idiot, yet yr saying the Palestinians should have been complete idiots at Camp David and accepted anything that they were 'offered'...

Okay, that covers Camp David, which is the only one most Americans seem to be aware of, and where the events are commonly distorted. If you've got any others where those dirty Palestinians just walked away, feel free to mention them...

Some reading for you:

Camp David: The Tragedy of Errors

Visions in Collision: What Really Happened at Camp David and Taba - Jeremy Pressman. (This doesn't seem to be available for free anymore on the web, so if anyone would really like a copy, PM me and I can get one to you)

Negotiating Outside the Law: Why Camp David Failed - Raymond G. Helmick, S.J.

Israel/Palestine: How to end the war of 1948 - Tanya Reihart


Violet...

[gonzo8]

93. An very useful analogy!

Unfortunately, the media and the herd like population has been fed so much baloney over the years (like the "land without people" schtick!!!) that getting people to focus on the facts not fantasy is difficult. I guess that is why it is important not to let apologists for Israel dominate the debate on websites like this one.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[superconnected]

46. They also put forth suicidal people as human bombs in malls in Israel.

Hamas is a terrorist organization. Israel was always between a rock and a hard stop with palestinians because hamas kept terrorist activities - like the bombings you now see in iraq, going on in israel.

[gonzo8]

80. And Israel shot Hellfire missiles into populated areas,

killing and maiming innocent civilians, in its quest to murder the political leadership of Hamas. Explain to me how blowing up a blind old man in a wheel chair is necessary for self defense.

[eyl]

That comment is very agist

not to mention disparaging of the disabled (Yassin wasn't blind, AFAIR; I think your confusing him with someone else).

Yassin was the leader of Hamas - including its miltary wing - and that made him a threat, regardless of what he personally could do (as opposed to command others to do).

And please don't come back with "he should have been arrested" unless you can suggest a way to do that without killing several hundred people...

[eyl]

86. That comment is very agist

not to mention disparaging of the disabled (Yassin wasn't blind, AFAIR; I think your confusing him with someone else).

Yassin was the leader of Hamas - including its miltary wing - and that made him a threat, regardless of what he personally could do (as opposed to command others to do).

And please don't come back with "he should have been arrested" unless you can suggest a way to do that without killing several hundred people...

[gonzo8]

92. Horesfeathers!! Nitpicking will get you knowwhere!

On the morning of March 22, Israeli helicopter gunships fired missiles at Muslims emerging from a radical mosque in the densely populated al-Sabra quarter of the occupied territory of Gaza. They killed eight people, including the half-blind paraplegic, Sheikh Ahmed Yassin (clerical leader of Hamas), and wounded 24 others. Yassin had blessed the suicide bombings that had taken so many civilian lives in Israel, but he was not on the operational side of Hamas. He planned no such attacks, although Israeli Interior Security Minister Tzahi Hanegbi implied that he did, saying, "The days of the terrorist chiefs and commanders who will not spend all their time trying to survive and still prepare attacks are numbered." Actually, Yassin had spoken of the possibility of a century-long truce with Israel, and exercised a restraining influence on young hotheads in the movement. Nor had any court tried and found Yassin guilty. He was simply assassinated, a contravention of the Geneva Convention of 1949 governing military occupations. Despite U.S. denials, many Arabs and Muslims concluded that Yassin's assassination was green-lighted in Washington, and Hamas itself briefly threatened revenge on the United States -- a virtually unprecedented departure from its position that its war is only with Israel.

[Behind the Aegis]

4. Expect the worse, hope for the best. Then, nothing will be a surprise. nt

[still_one]

8. I agree

unfortunately I do not see hamas accepting Israeal's right to exist. Unless they change their platform which calls for the total destruction of Israel, I do not see this coming to any good

[channa18]

10. Hamas will accept Israels right to exist as fast as.....

iran accepts israel's right to exist.


Gee, why would the palistinians elect a terrorist organization that is dedicated to the destruction of israel ??

[still_one]

14. I understand your point

but if they don't accept Israel's right to exist, then they will have to accept the consequences

Looking at history, time and time again the Palestinians were told NOT to recognize Israel, and that Israel would be destroyed, and they have kept repeating the same mistakes. Will it be different this time?

[channa18]

15. Pretty amazing, isnt it ?

Free elections and the palestinians choose the most dedicated group that OPENLY calls for the destruction of israel.

Well.......despite relinguishing gaza,despite offering >93% of the west bank and despite endless begging by israel to reign in terrorists, they choose a TERRORIST organixation.

Seems nothing but the total destruction of israel will be acceptable.

[still_one]

19. you are preaching to the choir

Israel will NOT be destroyed, they won't let it happen

[Behind the Aegis]

22. So true.

But, will the UN allow it?

[Tesha]

36. Pretty amazing, isn't it? Free elections and Americans choose...

> Free elections and the palestinians choose the most dedicated group that
> OPENLY calls for the destruction of Israel.

Pretty amazing, isn't it? Free elections and Americans choose the most dedicted
group that OPENLY calls for the destruction of Iraq, North Korea, Iran, etc...

Pot, kettle, etc.

Tesha

[stevekatz]

41. I'd like

I'd like to see where the current US government has called for the outright destruction of Iran.

[The Stranger]

45. Have you heard any State of the Union addresses lately?

Maybe the past four years? You should check it out.

[Tesha]

49. You're right, we never said it; we just did it.

> I'd like to see where the current US government has
> called for the outright destruction of Iran.

You're right, we never said it; we just did it.

In 1991, we destroyed their army. We also killed a large number of
their civilians and destroyed much of their public works infrastructure.

After that, through the imposition of "no fly zones", embargoes on
supplies (including health-care supplies), and the like, we managed
to kill off through disease and starvation probably (at least)
another 100,000 Iraqis (and lots of them children).

Then, in 2003, we invaded again, destroying the last vestiges of
the previous Iraqi national government, the remaining army, the
civilian authorities such as police, and another large set of
civilians.

And we're still killing civilians while we try to impose a
government that would act as an American puppet but in fact
is only managing to foment civil war.

Sounds to me like the outright destruction of a country. If
you don't think so, you must have a very odd definition of
"destruction".

Tesha

[stevekatz]

67. maybe you can't read

but I said Iran

[Tesha]

70. Ah, okay, you're right; we haven't destroyed Ira*N* yet.

But my point is still valid; we destroy nations when it suits our purpose
and we just do it, we don't talk about it.

Hamas at least has publicly stated their intentions, unlike, say the Bushistas.

But regarding Ira*N*, let's talk again next year ;-) .

Tesha

[stevekatz]

72. well

I'm in the US military

We can not invade Iran in the traditional sense, the army can't physically support it,
So it's kind of a non-issue, at least in the Iraq sense


I will cede that is possible that Israel may choose to bomb Iran's Nuclear facilities from the Air.
but like you said, we'll see

[leftynyc]

82. And we are forced to live with those consequences

as will the Palestinians.

[The Stranger]

47. Pretty amazing how that statement reminds me of U.S. race relations.

"We have given those coloreds the right to vote and jobs and yet they still listen to those militants and hate us, want to destroy our culture."

[gonzo8]

78. What a bunch of nonesense!

How quickly you forget that the Likud under Sharon basically kept Arafat in his own personal zoo in the West Bank, demonstrating Fatah's complete impotence. Now the West Bank, behind the wall, is basically one big zoo.

The Likud has created this problem by denying the Palestinians even the most basic human rights, by demonstrating to them that compromise is weakness, and that power comes from terror.

Follow the link:

http://www.counterpunch.org/finkelstein01182006.html

[Violet_Crumble]

84. It would be if there was anything factual to what you said...

The big election issue was corruption, and in that regard Hamas has it all over the corruption-ridden Fatah. There's been a lot of articles posted in this forum that indicate that's the reason for the strong showing of Hamas, and if you are interested in learning some facts then going back through the threads will give you a head-start...

btw, the Sharon govt hasn't offered one square inch of the West Bank, so I don't know where that ridiculous fairy tale has sprouted from...

Violet...

[eyl]

87. The settlers of Homesh might disagree...n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

90. They can disagree - they're still wrong...

There's a difference between removing a handful of settlers from a remote location and allowing the Palestinians to have control over their own land....

Violet...

[pelsar]

94. is that why palestenians replaced the settlers?

"remote" or not..once there were settlers there, now there are palestenains there....and it was under sharon that it happend-more than a square inch.

http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Briefs/6630.htm

According to a report in Ynet, one Palestinian explained that the West Bank town had not been officially liberated yet, which explained why hundreds, rather than thousands came to steal the remains. There are no Palestinian security forces in the area, so the looting went uninterrupted

[Violet_Crumble]

95. I see. So unless a settler is physically occupying space...

..then the Palestinians actually control it, and we should tell them to stop their bitching and whining, because after all, they don't deserve the same sort of control over their own territory the way us Westerners do?

Here's a fact for you, Pelsar. Sharon did NOT give a single square inch of the West Bank to the Palestinian people, and attempts to claim otherwise are plain out dishonest...

Violet...

[barb162]

61. yes and keep up those defenses!

[rpannier]

5. Australia Broadcast reports Hamas claiming to have won 80 seats

This would give them a majority in the Parliament.

[rodeodance]

11. Bush has always said it does not have to be a democracy like ours-Lybia

Afgan, Iraq--now Palistine.
Connect the dots here-----some good reporter should!

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

17. Well now, this should be interesting.

I wonder what Hamas will do now that they don't have Fatah to kick around any more.

[VirginiaDem]

38. They'll become hopelessly corrupt for one.

This is the undermentioned variable at play. Hamas' election was in part a function of Fatah's corruption. Hamas will become just as corrupt, mark my words. Corruption just doesn't get solved overnight in a virtually institution-free environment.

[wordpix]

40. Fatah was horribly corrupt but maybe Hamas will be better? Did anyone see

the CPTV special on the election last night? Very informative

[barb162]

64. No, but I saw Mahmoud Zahar on Nightline last night

getting creamed by Terry Moran. Moran was asking a simple question and Mahmoud Zahar was trying to evade the answer so Moran kept interrupting and saying please answer the question, please answer the question.

[moondust]

18. Hard line politics begets hard line politics?

I don't recall any hard liners/nutjobs coming to power during Clinton's 8 years of diplomacy, peace, and all boats rising. What's going on? :shrug:

[still_one]

21. in fact just the opposite occured

[Binka]

23. The Lowest Common Denominator With Bush In The White House

The rest of the planet is in a race to the bottom. What a fucking mess! Which is precisely why the Democratic members of the Senate need to filibuster Alito. THE TIME IS NOW!

[gonzo8]

79. Amen, brother

[TheAngryIndependent]

24. Another Self created challenge for the "Calamity President"

The wheels may begin to fall off in the Middle East. Already starting. Palestinian Prime Minister & government already resigning.

The nightmare continues... this is all a consequence of U.S. policy in the World... Its so-called "War On Terror", blind unconditional support for Israel (allowing Israel to do whatever it wants), war in Iraq, and its overall policy in the Middle East. These policies have radicalized entire populations all over the world against the U.S., especially in the Middle East. We have been seeing the results of these policies all over the world. But this is one of the biggest stories so far.

Yet a new crisis for "The Calamity President" as he and his government will be known in history.

And it is sickening to think that John McCain will likely be the next President and will finish the job that Bush started, unless Bush does it first with WWIII. We have to live through Bush first. But McCain is infinitely worse than Bush in terms of war, etc. He's such a pro-war looney, that he will have us wishing for Bush to return.

I think i'm going to have to start drinking.... to blow my mind so that I don't have to deal with this madness.

[rodeodance]

30. 3 more years is LLLLLONNNNG---'to live through Bush'

We have to live through Bush first. But McCain is infinitely worse than Bush in terms of war, etc. He's such a pro-war looney, that he will have us wishing for Bush to return.

[zippy890]

33. so true - bush policies have radicalized populations

in many areas of the world. calamity president - and the prospect of 3 more years make me want to start taking drugs.

- HOWEVER- I do not believe bush will serve out his term. I predict things will come to critical mass in our country politically which will force him out of office. Rough road ahead but in the end I do not think McCain will be the next president, FWIW

& welcome to DU


:hi:

[primavera]

71. No! It can't be!

You mean conducting a crusade against evil doers (who coincidentally all happen to be Muslims), illegally invading Islamic countries, massacring civilian populations, kidnapping and torturing to death their nationals, and green-lighting Israel to use US military hardware against Palestinian civilian and refugee populations hasn't inspired countries in the region to want to embrace democracy?! Jeez, what's wrong with these people? Don't they realize what a swell bunch of guys we are whose example should be emulated? Oh, wait... maybe that's why they supported an extremist party to lead them - because they are trying to follow our example. Perhaps we should explain to them that what's expected of them is to do what we say, not what we do. That should do the trick.

Welcome to DU AngryIndependent! :hi:

[IndianaGreen]

25. "plunging the stalled Middle East peace process into further turmoil"

There is no crisis here! Hamas defeated the corrupt terrorists in Fatah, replacing them with honest terrorists.

If Israel has no partner for peace, she will just pull out of most of the West Bank and end the occupation with new borders. A Jewish state next to a Palestinian state! The Hamas government will have its hands full trying to govern and imposing its extreme religious views on their fellow countrymen.

The biggest impediment to peace in the Middle East is the United States!

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

26. Heh heh.

Hamas have only ever proved to be adept at two things: Blowing shit up, and running health clinics. The reign of the low-carb suicide bombers. I can't wait.

[Stockholm]

27. Sweden Says Hamas Must Change To Win EU Backing

The Swedish government warned Thursday that the radical Islamist movement Hamas, which was poised to form the next Palestinian government, would have to change its ways to win cooperation from the European Union.

”Hamas must radically change its policies, otherwise Sweden and the EU will not be able to cooperate with a future Palestinian government in which Hamas will have a dominant position,” Foreign Minister Laila Freivalds told Swedish radio.

http://www.sr.se/cgi-bin/International/nyhetssidor/artikel.asp?nyheter=1&ProgramID=2054&artikel=782397

I don´t know about you but I am quite optimistic about this development. There are tons of problems ahead but this could be the first step towards "pacifying" Hamas into a Sinn Fein like political force and at the finishing line a multiparty democracy in Palestine.

[IndianaGreen]

28. All these warnings from the West to Hamas...

are for the benefit of the public in Europe and America. Hamas only listens to the little voices inside their heads, much like Bush does.

[Stockholm]

29. No one

said it was going to be easy, but as of this minute Hamas is in majority and it does not look like Fatah wants to be a part of the new government.

Hamas must come in from the barricades and take up government, they have no other choice. I think the responsibility of governing might lead to a change, it has happened before. But no one is saying that it will be easy or friction free.

And it is very important that the "west" openly declares their views not just for for their constiutents but also for the people of Palestine.

[zippy890]

34. good points

and well stated

:thumbsup:

[sofa king]

35. And in a single stroke, millions of Internet arguments are settled.

I wish us all luck.

[The Stranger]

44. NPR (Neocon Public Relations)'s Elaine Montaigne asked if they coud have

been "removed from the ballot."

Without batting an eye -- can you fucking believe that?

[Tesha]

50. Wasn't that, more-or-less, the Israeli's intent?

> NPR (Neocon Public Relations)'s Elaine Montaigne asked if they
> could have been "removed from the ballot."
>
> Without batting an eye -- can you fucking believe that?

Wasn't that, more-or-less, the Israelis' intent in the run-up
to this election?

Tolerate no campaigning, no candidate appearances, etc.

I suspect that *HARDENED* people's resolve to vote Hamas.

Tesha

[wordpix]

51. yeah, like Israel controls Palestinian elections. Where's your link about

this "fact?"

[Tesha]

56. It was a common news story prior to the election.

> yeah, like Israel controls Palestinian elections.
> Where's your link about this "fact?"

It was a common news story prior to the election that
Israel was imposing restrictions, at least in certain
places they still nominally control.

Here's a brief quote from the Jerusalem Post:



http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1137605914935&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Israel had forbidden Palestinian terror organizations,
such as Hamas, from campaigning in east Jerusalem, but,
despite a series of arrests and police raids over the
last month, the powerful Islamic group defied the ban
through the very end of the voting.

Jerusalem police detained two Hamas members who were
campaigning with Hamas posters in northern Jerusalem,
Jerusalem police spokesman Shmuel Ben-Ruby said.

Police also demanded the removal of Hamas banners erected
in the east Jerusalem neighborhood of Sur Bahir, a religious
bastion in the city.



I'm sorry you didn't hear about this.

Tesha

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

55. It's not like Fatah wants them to run the place, either. n/t

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

53. Yes, I can fucking believe it.

Militant groups are barred from running in many democracies. Not every place is like the US.

[The Stranger]

63. Then they aren't much a of a democracy.

Perhaps the thinking that founded the U.S. realized that militant groups often face a choice in a democracy: Become non-militant or become very unpopular very fast.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

65. Well, in that case...

...much of Western Europe will be disappointed to learn that they are not actually democracies.

[plasticsundance]

57. Well ... well ... well ... the worm has turned

What!? How can this be? Don't the Palestinians know that there was no real coverage of Jenin on US MSM; therefore, the incident didn't really happen. Sheesh ... these Palestinians have long memories. Can't they just forget?

Jenin camp 'horrific beyond belief'

Complain, complain, complain. Oh wait. It's not incidences like Jenin that are blame for the rise of Hamas, or the fact that Abbas just about had his speeches written by members of Israel and the West. No, no, no, no. It's that damn anti-war crowd.

Of course, the nice thing about the Israeli government is that there is no political pretense, they just simply bulldoze down a house. What an efficient bureaucracy.

Let's see, Hezbollah has become even more politically active in Lebanon. Iraq has an Iranian influenced, if not backed, government. And now Hamas is elected into power. Wow. This whole ME project of the Bush Administration is really coming about rather nicely.

:sarcasm:

So, to those DU'ers seeking democracy in the ME, do the results of the Palestinian election hold, or do you overturn them because you don't like the results?

[jseankil]

60. Sure they hold but if they support violence their will be consequences

They better start singing a different tune or all funding will freeze. And if they want to contine follwing their motto "Destroy Israel" they will have short political lives to say the least.

[plasticsundance]

62. Ah ... good plan

Bulldoze more homes. Fly helicopters and assassinate their leaders, and involves some collateral damage. Crack down on the rights of ordinary Palestinians. The very things that put Hamas in power. Ah ... yes ... that's the ticket.

Good thinking. Continue with the rhetoric that isolates us even further from finding a solution.

[jseankil]

73. Or buddy up with a group that has vowed to destroy Israel

I'll take option one. Ideally though Hamas pulls a 180, accepts Israel, and cracksdown on militants so Israel doesn't have too.

[plasticsundance]

75. Oh yeah ... gotta 'em on the run now ...

Israel has been at this for how long? Sixty-years ... almost? How many UN Resolution does Israel refuse to comply with, except token gestures at UN Resolution 242.

And still no break in the rhetoric. And now the damage control from Israel and the US that only reinforces the tired old rhetoric that is the cause of the ME failure in the first place.

What? Wanna comfort yourself with a tough stance? Doesn't make your stance any less delusional.

I believe there was a prophet that once wrote: "The very path they have chosen has become the path towards their destruction.

[pelsar]

85. dont know much about the palestenains?...

they voted for hamas as the only opposition to fatah...they were disgusted by the corruption and stolen monies..... israel was simply related

sorry to ruin a good "its israels fault"....

[plasticsundance]

88. Yeah ... sure ...

I understand that there's even a faction of Palestinians that really don't mind having their homes and the homes of their loved ones knocked down. Some even promote it. :sarcasm:

Your terse remarks don't address one issue I raised. Your response only serves to obfuscate.

Not sure how much you know about the Palestinians, but you might want to do a spell check on Palestinians. I'll just figure you took an e.e. cumming's poetic license with not placing the first letter of their name in upper case. ;-)

[pelsar]

89. you claimed...

that it was a reaction to israels military actions that put hamas in power......simply not true: the palestenians who voted, and even the hamas members say different.



as far as my knowledge of the palestenians....i get the impression that its far greater than yours (your simplistic comment says volumes of your knowledge of the internal politics....)

[malmapus]

58. Bush, is that the Palestinians giving you the purple finger too?

Ahh gotta love Democracy...

[goodboy]

59. FREEDOM's ON THE MARCH...just not in the US, or the Middle East..

[saigon68]

69. Didn't the Bush Bots give lots of $$$$$$$$$$$$

To Fatah to "win" the election. I thought millions were given to "modify the outcome"?

[Placebo]

66. FREEDOM is spreading through region like a GLORIOUS SUNRISE!

NOT.

[KamaAina]

68. How do you say "Diebold" in Arabic?

Didn't Fatah have a slim lead as of yesterday? And now we wake up to find Hamas with an absolute majority?! I wonder what the exit polls said...

The only silver lining may be that it will take Bush**co a while to figure out which crazy ME leader to take out first: Iran's or Palestine's. :eyes: :scared:

[Igel]

74. These were the exit polls.

A couple said Fatah would win narrowly; Hamas' said huge Hamas landslide.

The announcement was recently made, preliminary official results: "The Palestinian Central Elections Commission said that Hamas won 76 seats and Fatah 43 in the 132-seat Palestinian Legislative Council. The remaining seats went to smaller parties and independents. Sixty-seven seats are needed for a majority."

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/26/international/middleeast/26cnd-hamas.html?hp&ex=1138338000&en=f67f7af1f6172983&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[goodboy]

81. "Yalla Diebold Akbar"

[BooScout]

76. If we won't negotiate with terrorists......

Explain to me why when we in fact have negotiated with "terrorists" (ie....Northern Ireland).....we have had far better results than the so called status quo?.....just a thought.

The IRA eventually changed.maybe this is the beginning of change for Hamas?

[KamaAina]

77. Karen Hughes, please check your messages...

...apparently we have somehow failed to "win the hearts and minds of the Arab people". I can't imagine how that could be, can you? :sarcasm: