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PhilipShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-30-06 03:17 AM
Original message
Ynetnews: Bibi compares Hamas' rise to Nazis
Ynetnews
Bibi compares Hamas’ rise to Nazis
01.30.06

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3207885,00.html

Likud leader Benjamin Netanyahu on Sunday compared the Hamas’ election victory to the Nazi’s rise to power in Germany.

Netanyahu spoke at Likud’s first election rally which was held at Netanya’s Park Hotel, where 30 people were killed in April 2002.

Bibi lashed out at Olmert for allowing elections in Jerusalem, saying the move brought Hamas closer to the Jewish capital.
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-30-06 03:24 AM
Response to Original message
1. The Yahoo himself...
there's an objective opinion.
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tatertop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-30-06 03:45 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. That monster is bound to sieze power
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-30-06 04:12 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. It's not like...
Israel had anything to do with the creation of the Hamas-
monster...
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-30-06 04:23 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. how do you mean?
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DELUSIONAL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-30-06 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. You'd be amazed at how many people continue to deny this
historical fact.

The pro Israel lobby will call this "old" news.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-30-06 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. And what historical fact would that be? n/t
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DELUSIONAL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-30-06 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. see post #3
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-30-06 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. That is not a historical fact.
Hamas was created in Egypt. It was a religious charity organization in Gaza, that Israel helped fund once it arrived in Gaza, as a foil to the PLO. However, when they crossed over to terrorist attacks, the money stopped.

So post #3 is not a historical fact, as much as it is a historical distortion.
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Englander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 02:11 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. And the rest.
Mb were, <deep breath>,

radicalislamicactivistsintentonthedestructionofisrael.

Don't forget to mention that aspect of the Mb. The Isreali authorities of the time were
covertly funding Islamists. Which doesn't really sound like the wisest of decisions.

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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 02:58 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. It was not covert.
It was well-known that Israel, not only recognized Hamas, it was funding it partially. But, it all comes back to the "Israel is to blame" factor. Had lo those many years ago, Israel not allowed the Islamic charity into Gaza, they'd been "the bad guy." But, they did, even funded them, and now it is their fault again. Amazing, all this blame, and it never falls on an entity but Israel. I guess they are responsible for all the suicide bombings carried out by Hamas, as well. :eyes:

It was not a wise political move then. Nor, would be a wise political move now to negotiate with them until some things change from the Hamas camp.
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eyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 06:18 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. The MB's Palestinian branch
The Muslim Brothers were also active in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.
The cornerstone of the Muslim Brotherhood is the system of essentially social activity which they call Da'wah. In the twenty years preceding the Intifada, they built an impressive social, religious, educational and cultural infrastructure, which gave them a political stronghold, both in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. It was successful despite their lack of support for the nationalist policy of armed struggle.


Source

IOW, Israel was supporting the nonviolent factions at the time (Hamas came into being and started using violence in the late 80s, by which time Israeli support had long ceased).

Keep that in mind next time you criticise Israel for "not supporting the moderates".
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Ahem. What about...
radicalisraeliactivistsintentonthedestructionofpalestinians?

Not that Hamas, Fatah or any of the PLO folks are/were nice people. It's just that it takes two...

But you know this...
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-30-06 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Hamas arose because Arafat wasn't minding the store
He let militant factions get out of hand
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Englander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Hugh!1! n/t

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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. "hugh" ...care to explain?
Are you denying one of the more well-known platforms of Hamas in this election was getting rid of Fatah's corruption.
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Englander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 05:41 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. See post #18. n/t
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #7
18. Hamas rose because Israel undermined Fatah at every opportunity...
...while they were in power, blocking any progress toward peace, wrecking the Palestinian economy, and so on. In the end, Fatah had few successes and more than a little corruption. The latter might have been tolerated for longer if Fatah had achieved social and political results, but negotiaion takes two partners, and Israel NEVER negotiates in good faith, at least not with right wingers in power. So Hamas looked like a pretty good alternative. Israel shares quite a bit of the responsibility for Hamas' acendency to power, and now Israel will have to live with the consequences.
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #7
19. How do you explain the extremist Bibi's rise to power?
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Colorado Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Gee. Here I thought Bibi was now the head of a minor party.
Let's see, he challenged Sharon, and quite the government causing the Sharon lead Likud gov't to fall. Then Sharon left Likud, formed Kadima and called new elections. Now "Bibi" is the head of a minor party Likud, which has been losing according to the latest poll.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/677651.html

Sorry to disappoint you but the Israelis aren't into extremism.

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eyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-02-06 03:21 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. "Rise"? n/t
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Andromeda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 06:15 AM
Response to Reply #7
21. That's true.
Arafat was ineffectual in controlling the militant factions in Palestine.

I remember when Arafat and Rabin shook hands in the Rose Garden at the White House with a smiling Bill Clinton looking on.

Things have sure deteriorated since Rabin was executed.
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Englander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. Some informed comment;
'How has the Muslim Brotherhood been involved in the Israeli - Palestinian conflict?

Dilip Hiro, author and journalist, in The Essential Middle East / A Comprehensive Guide, wrote:

"During his visits to Palestine between 1942 and 1945, Hassan al-Banna set up Muslim Brotherhood branches in many towns. After the 1948-1949 Palestine War, the Gaza Strip came under Egyptian authority and the West Bank was annexed by Jordan. With this the fate of the Brotherhood in Gaza became intertwined with its Egyptian counterpart, and that of the Brotherhood in the West Bank with its Jordanian counterpart.

After the June 1967 Arab-Israeli War, Israel occupied the West Bank and Gaza. In order to weaken the Palestine Liberation Organization in the Occupied Territories, in 1973 Israel issued a license to Shaikh Ahmad Yassin, the Brotherhood leader in the Occupied Territories, to set up the Islamic Center as a charity to run social, religious, and welfare institutions. It encouraged the growth of Islamic Center / Muslim Brotherhood -- funded chiefly by contributions from private and official sources in the Gulf states -- as a counter point to the secular PLO to the extent of providing funds covertly to the mosques in the Occupied Territories, especially the Gaza Strip, considered sympathetic to it. But following the dramatic rise of Hizbollah in Lebanon, the Israeli government had second thoughts. It arrested Yassin in 1983 for illegal possession of arms and sentenced him to a long prison term. However, he was released two years later as part of a prison exchange deal between Israel and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command.

Yassin built on the popularity he had gained as a political convict of Israel and rapidly increased the membership of the Islamic Center/Muslim Brotherhood. With eruption of the intifada in December 1987, Yassin and six other leaders of the Brotherhood decided to join the mass movement against the Israeli occupiers. The result was the founding of Hamas as the activist arm of the (Muslim) Brotherhood."

http://www.israelipalestinianprocon.org/bin/procon/procon.cgi?database=5-Q-Subs.db&command=viewone&id=13&op=t

________________________________

'Hamas: A Behavioral Profile

Shaul Mishal and Avraham Sela

Tel Aviv University
The Tami Steinmetz Center for Peace Research

>snip

Roots and Perceptions

Hamas' origins have been rooted in the Muslim Brotherhood Society (MB) (jama'at al-ikhwan al-muslimin) in the Gaza Strip and more specifically, in its main embodiment since the late 1970s - al-Mujamma' al-Islami. Under the Egyptian military government in the Gaza Strip (1948-1967), the MB activity was tolerated or repressed along with the policy conducted against the MB in Egypt itself. Thus, following the ban on the MB in Egypt in early 1949, the MB branch in Gaza was reshaped into a religious-educational center under the title Unification Association (jam'iyyat al-tawhid). During the short-lived honeymoon of relations between the Free Officers regime and the MB (1952-1954) the MB in the Strip prospered, attracting many young Palestinians in the refugee camps as well as in Egyptian universities. Yet the new, and long-standing, ban on the MB in Egypt in 1954 - following a MB attempt on Nasir's life--determined the hostile nature of relationship between the Nasirist regime and the MB, leading to the adoption of systematic repression against its leading members in the Gaza Strip as well. This forced the MB in the Strip to assume secret and discrete activity which, along with the pressure of the Arab nationalist wave in the early 1960s, led to the disintegration of the association. Nasir's harsh policy against the MB in Egypt reached the zenith in the aftermath of the coup d'etat attempt in 1965, which led to the arrest of thousands of the association's activists in Egypt, among whom was Ahmad Yasin, later the founder of Hamas.1

The origins of Islamic awakening in historic Palestine were not different from other countries in the Middle East which, since the late 1960s, has demonstrated itself as the most significant ideological, social, and political trend. Contemporary Islamic movements share the ideal of the Prophet's Muslim society, a religious and political community with the shari'a (the Islamic Law) as its sole source of law as well as the norm for individual behavior. Only the boundaries of the community of the faithful (umma) determine the boundaries of political power with no territorial definition for the Islamic state which is to be universal. Yet under this umbrella, mainstream Islamists have assumed typical national character, acquiescing in the existing international order of states and restricting their activity within state boundaries.2 Furthermore, modern radical Islam is highly fragmented within states, represented by political groups, movements, and formal parties that differ in their ideological zealotry, political platform, means, and relations with the ruling elite. Olivier Roy discerned two poles of Islamic thought which had marked contemporary Islamic movements in the 20th century: a revolutionary pole, for whom Islamization of the society is attained through state power, and a reformist pole for whom the advent of the Islamic state is the result of social and political action from bottom up aimed primarily to re-Islamize the society (neofundamentalism).3

One may assume that under the unique circumstances of Jewish domination in Palestine and military occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, Palestinian Islamists would be decisively inclined toward revolutionary political Islam. In reality, however, the MB in the occupied territories oscillated between two main attitudes and strategies of action concerning nationalist vis-a-vis all-Islamic priorities. As of the early 1980s, the Palestinian Islamist spectrum was defined, on the activist-nationalist end, by the Islamic Jihad Movement (harakat al-jihad al-islami) whose main thrust was "armed struggle now" for the liberation of Palestine in its entirety.

The proponents of this approach envisioned the mobilization of Islam in the liberation of Palestine. Until 1987, however, the mainstream of the Palestinian MB followed the universal, normative approach to the issue of Jihad. The representative of this approach was The Islamic Association (al-mujamma' al-islami) which, since its establishment in 1979, constituted the MB's main organization the Gaza Strip. The Mujamma', defined its goals sheerly in terms of individual acommunal work in the fields of preaching and education, health care, charity and social welfare in the spirit of Islamic moral tradition.4

That the Mujamma' continued to focus on reformist approach of Islamic action from bottom up was due to Israel's tacit consent to Islamic education, preaching and establishment of social and religious infrastructure. Apparently, the Israeli authorities perceived this brand of Islamic activity as harmless and a potential for balancing the nationalist militant movements under the PLO's umbrella.5 Thus, whereas the Islamic Jihad adopted unequivocal Palestinian nationalist affiliation, the Mujamma' claimed allegiance to an abstract Islamic identity, blurring the boundaries between state (dawla) and Islamic nation (umma), and to the "great religion" (al-din al-'azim) and its written law--the Qur'an.6

1. Ziad Abu-Amr, Islamic Fundamentalism in the West Bank and Gaza, Bloomington, Indiana University Press, 1994, p. 9.

2. See, for example, Hassan A. Turabi, "Islam as a Pan-National Movement", RSA Journal, August-September, 1992, pp. 608-619.

3. Olivier Roy, The Failure of Political Islam, Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press, 1994, pp. 24, 77-80.

4. Request for registration of Jam'iyyat Jawrat al-Shams al-Islamiyya (later known as al-Mujamma' al-islami) by Ya'qub 'Uthman Quayq to the Civil Administration, August 4, 1977.

5. In 1967-86 the number of mosques in the Gaza Strip doubled (from 77 to 150). Most of the new mosques were private, The (Israeli) Civil Administration, The Islamic Activity in the Gaza Region, Gaza, 1987, p. 15. See also Housing Minister Ben-Eli'ezer quoted in Yedi'ot Aharonot, June 17, 1994.

6. Leaflet of the "Islamic Block" in the Islamic University of Gaza, n.d. (1986).

http://www.ict.org.il/articles/articledet.cfm?articleid=11#roots
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. Arafat and Fatah had a lot to do with it because of corruption
and refusal to rein in the militants. Did international aid go to the poor Palestinians or into the pockets of certain Fatah types. Zahar has spoken many times on the corruption of Fatah. What's one of the main things Hamas ran on? Anti-corruption
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occuserpens Donating Member (836 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
23. How radical Islam gets stronger
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