Hamas helps other groups fire Qassams from Gaza

[barb162]

Fri., February 24, 2006

Hamas helps other groups fire Qassams from Gaza

By Ze'ev Schiff

Hamas activists may not be actively launching Qassam rockets at Israel from the Gaza Strip, but they are providing assistance to militants from other groups who are carrying out such attacks.

Most of the rocket fire is being carried out by Islamic Jihad activists, activists from Fatah's Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, and members of local factions such as the Popular Resistance Committees.

For all intents and purposes, Hamas has been in control of the northern branch of the PRC over the past few months. Since the Palestinian elections, the movement has not been involved in the Qassam rocket fire, but has provided direct assistance to the PRC.
snip

Despite recent concerted efforts by the Israel Defense Forces to curtail rocket fire from the Strip, Qassam attacks have significantly increased recently. At least 130 Qassam rockets fired from the Gaza Strip fell in Israeli territory in January - more than double the 64 that landed in Israel in December 2005.
snip

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/686860.html

[bemildred]

1. Yeah, yeah, the governent gives "direct aid" to the settlers too.

You want the rockets to stop, give them something better to do, like a job.

[barb162]

2. How do you know they don't have jobs

[Violet_Crumble]

3. Considering the unemployment rate, it's a safe bet...

n/t

[barb162]

4. No it 's not a safe bet.

[Violet_Crumble]

5. Why not?

n/t

[barb162]

7. if you take that bet as "safe" I'd safe you aren't a good gambler

[Violet_Crumble]

8. I asked you why not, barb....

Could you possibly explain *why* you don't think it's a safe bet that they are employed?

Violet...

[barb162]

13. Well if I look at the unemployment rate and it's below a certain

%, then it wouldn't be a good bet. Now you may look at the same rate and think it's a "safe" bet, but I wouldn't.

However, safe bet or not, it's rather interesting that some people don't use their time more constructively, such as in charity work, don't you think?

[Violet_Crumble]

17. And what's the unemployment rate, barb?

And what magic figure do you set it at for it to be a safe bet that they're employed?

Who are you referring to when you say 'some people'? The IDF?

[barb162]

22. Violet, why don't you check the unemployment rate for yourself

and use your own sources which you trust and tell me what you think the rate it is. edit: BTW, as to the "magic" I will leave that to you. I just look at the numbers.

[Violet_Crumble]

24. Because I don't know what yr magic number is...

Remember? You said there's a certain unemployment rate, so can you point me to a website where I can research what yr OPINION is?

btw, I already know what the unemployment rate is, but I'm becoming convinced that you don't...

[barb162]

28. And I don't know your magic number either.

You stated you could make a safe bet, so where's the web site you're using to substantiate that?
.

[Violet_Crumble]

29. I didn't suggest I had a magic number...

But you did when you said: 'Well if I look at the unemployment rate and it's below a certain
%, then it wouldn't be a good bet.'

So I don't think it's unreasonable to ask what you think the certain % is, and I'm not at all understanding yr refusal to say what it is. If yr interested in having a constructive and civil discussion, then I'm willing to continue, but at this point I'm giving up...

Violet...

[barb162]

31. No, you suggested I had a magic number which isn't very civil

for discussion purposes.

[Violet_Crumble]

35. Barb, pulling %'s out of the air IS using magic numbers...

Nothing lacking in civility in saying that. Percentages, when used in a subjective way that is purely personal opinion, isn't anything else but subjective personal opinion. So, I'll give this one last try - what magic figure do you set it at for it to be a safe bet that they're employed?

[barb162]

39. But I am not pulling % s out of the air and I resent you stating that

Not only is it incorrect, it's again uncivil.

[Violet_Crumble]

49. Then what do you think it is??

This is what you said: 'Well if I look at the unemployment rate and it's below a certain
%, then it wouldn't be a good bet.' How exactly is this not a subjective thing? This is pulling numbers out of the air, barb, which is what subjective things like this are. Are you basing this mysterious figure you pulled out of the air on anything concrete? It's just that common-sense does dictate that if people are employed and can provide for their families, they're much less likely to get into lawlessness, etc. Or are you going to dispute that bit of common-sense?

[barb162]

6. If someone doesn't have a job, it's okay to shoot rockets off

to houses, schools, etc?

[Violet_Crumble]

9. He didn't say that n/t

[barb162]

18. Actually, here's the sentence and I see it that way.

"...You want the rockets to stop, give them something better to do, like a job."

[Violet_Crumble]

26. How on earth do you read that as support of attacks???

He's saying what needs to happen for the rockets to stop, nothing more, nothing less. So how exactly do you manage to read that as him supporting rocket attacks??

Violet...

[barb162]

33. Who is writing that bemildred supports rocket attacks again?

Not me.

[Violet_Crumble]

36. You said: 'If someone doesn't have a job, it's okay to shoot rockets off?'

If that's not what you meant, maybe you could reprhase it for me?

Violet...

[barb162]

40. Stop misquoting my posts. My post 6 is a question

"If someone doesn't have a job, it's okay to shoot rockets off
to houses, schools, etc? "

And of course the meaning of this rhetorical question is quite simple. What person, employed or UNemployed (ANY person) in the world, has the right to shoot rockets at innocent people? Answer: No one.

[Violet_Crumble]

50. I didn't misquote you. That was what you said...

If yr now saying you didn't mean that bemildred thought it was okay to shoot off rockets etc, then why did you reply to my post where I said that wasn't what bemildred had said with 'Actually, here's the sentence and I see it that way.' (post 18)

Violet...

[Colorado Blue]

10. A job? What about the greenhouses? They are history.

They provided HUNDREDS of jobs.

[Scurrilous]

12. The greenhouses aren't 'history'...

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L13283070.htm

"The theft of entire greenhouses and their equipment has put out of action around 70 acres (28 hectares) of the roughly 1,000 acres left by Jewish settlers as the basis of a Palestinian agriculture industry when Israel withdrew from Gaza last September."

[barb162]

30. so how many jobs do you think were lost with those thefts

[Colorado Blue]

37. Uh huh.

Along with, as I said, hundreds of jobs and will cost the Palestinian people bigtime, not just from the losses of the greenhouses but from the losses of potential revenues and ALSO from potential future investment, which will now be harder to come by.

From the article linked:

The Israeli greenhouse owners had earned tens of millions of dollars annually from lucrative crops that included flowers and herbs which they sold abroad.

Masri said he feared the looting could hurt international support for other development projects in the Gaza Strip.

"It will undermine our efforts to privatise the project as we hoped and also it could frighten investors aiming at other projects," he said.

Another article on this topic:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1025/p04s01-wome.html

Greenhouses covering one-fourth of the land were damaged during looting after the handover, according to Palestinian officials. The inherited farms have the potential to nearly double the output of the local agriculture industry, the largest domestic private-sector income engine in Gaza's $1 billion economy.

Now as the Palestinians try to restart a lucrative agribusiness that yielded exports to the US and Europe, the greenhouses face an uncertain future. Lax security and unreliable access to foreign markets threatens to turn profit-making ventures that grossed $75 million annually into a money pit.

snip

Back in Netzer Hazani, Subhi Firwana, an 18-year veteran of the hothouses, worries that the cleanup job will be terminated and he'll be forced to return to the ranks of Gaza's unemployed. If the PA successfully manages the greenhouses, he will be able to earn a living without seeking work inside Israel. But if the government can't keep out looters, there is little hope for him - not to mention the Palestinians' aspirations for statehood.

"We hope they will learn from their mistakes," Mr. Firwana says, speaking of the Palestinian government. "If I start to destroy instead of building, there won't be a state."

[barb162]

46. I feel sorry for all the Mr. Firwanas among the Palestinians

The ones who are trying to make a "go" of the economy versus the ones who are trying to destroy it for their own selfish purposes.

[Jim Sagle]

14. And what about the olive trees?

;(

[Colorado Blue]

11. There are lots of unemployed people in the US. Should we

now expect them to start shooting rockets in their spare time?

I can see it now. Schaumburg starts shooting at Des Plaines.

Swell.

[Jim Sagle]

15. Woodridge bombs Lisle.

:scared:

[barb162]

34. Well, Lisle has a funny name

LOL

[Jim Sagle]

48. And WOODRIDGE is NORMAL?

Oy. :shrug:

[Colorado Blue]

42. Well that's one way to deal with The Land West of O'Hare

AAACCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKK.

[Violet_Crumble]

19. Stop comparing the US to Gaza...

It's ridiculous to attempt to compare the two as though conditions are exactly the same in both places...

[barb162]

38. Comparisons of what unemployed people do with their time has

a certain validity. Whether people choose to do volunteer work, read, paint, make bombs, look for another job, etc., whether people choose to be constructive or destructive or neither, it tells a story.

[Colorado Blue]

43. Read, paint, make bombs...

I'm sorry but when you but it that way...the comparison is pretty stark.

So? Creativity isn't better than destruction?

[barb162]

45. Creativity in a constructive fashion

is a wonderful thing. Paint a picture, take up drawing, paint your apartment (not so creative, but it will look better), whatever. Or doing volunteer work is great too, helping others gives a sense of satisfaction, etc. There's so many things that can be done other than violence and destruction. Forgive me, I know I am speaking to the choir.

[Jim Sagle]

47. On Opposite Day, bombs are better than paint.

[Violet_Crumble]

54. Again. You can't compare Americans to Gazans...

Americans haven't lived under a military occupation, so what exactly should they be shooting rockets at, CB?

Violet...

[Violet_Crumble]

53. Yeah, I don't know why we don't compare Afghans with Americans!

Do you realise how ridiculous it is to compare Americans against people living under oppression? Why is everyone supposed to ignore the setting people live in and the problems it causes?

Violet...

[Jim Sagle]

16. That IS their job. You don't think they set off rockets for free, do ya?

No WONDER Israel stopped delivering their tax money.

[Violet_Crumble]

20. Uh, Jimbo. Hamas isn't setting off rockets...

n/t

[Jim Sagle]

21. No, but I'm sure the moolah gets passed down the line.

[Violet_Crumble]

23. Then why say they did?

n/t

[Jim Sagle]

25. I didn't say Hamas did the bombing.

You're on an American board, ya gotta decipher American English - even if it's not the real thing. ;-)

[Violet_Crumble]

27. Yes, you did...

That IS their job. You don't think they set off rockets for free, do ya?
No WONDER Israel stopped delivering their tax money.

Sometimes I wonder how different you folk think American English is to English spoken everywhere else. Or how you guys would know, given that yr culture isn't flooded with non-American stuff like ours is with American culture...

[Jim Sagle]

32. That's compressed writing - I slid from the bombers to Hamas without

enough narrative tissue to distinguish the two.

Gimme a break - it's 1:15 AM here in sunny Illinois.

Besides, Hamas probably DID set off rockets.

[barb162]

44. Hamas is just "helping" out, aka "aiding and abetting" over here

[Violet_Crumble]

51. That's not what Jimbo said, barb...

n/t

[barb162]

41. Jim, that's precious

LOL!!!

[eyl]

52. You seem to be making a strange assumption here

that they're shooting rockets because they have too much time on their hands? The people doing the launches aren't going to be looking for work - that is their "job"

[Violet_Crumble]

55. It's yr assumption that is strange, eyl...

Bemildred didn't make the assumption they're doing it coz they've got too much time on their hands. Do you really think people sit there and go 'geez, I'm a bit bored today. Think I'll just pop down the road and launch a few Qassams to pass some time'?

It seems very clear that if they're offered real employment with some prospects of a real future, many of them would pick that over launching missiles...

Violet...

[eyl]

56. It's pretty clear

they're not just doing that because they're bored. Given that, "giving them jobs" woun't reduce the number of the launchers (not in and of itself, anyway)

[Colorado Blue]

57. Am I to understand that people are shooting rockets now because

they are BORED?