Hamas: Israeli move "a declaration of war"

[cali]

GAZA (Reuters) - Israel suspended formal security ties to the Palestinian government on Monday in what Hamas said amounted to "a declaration of war".

European Union foreign ministers added to U.S. and Israeli pressure on the Islamic militant group by approving a temporary halt in direct EU aid to the new government.

<snip>

An Israeli shell killed a young Palestinian girl and injured 12 others, including five children, when it hit a house in the northern Gaza Strip, Palestinian officials said.

<snip>

Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri said in a statement in Gaza that Israel's decision to sever contacts with the Palestinian Authority constituted "a declaration of war and a failed attempt to cause internal divisions among Palestinians".

<snip>

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2006-04-10T164703Z_01_L10465704_RTRUKOC_0_US-MIDEAST.xml&rpc=22

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

1. Can anyone explain to me how bombing houses and kids isn't terrorism?

[Phx_Dem]

2. according to the Israelis

"Israel says the shelling in Gaza is meant to combat rocket attacks by militants."

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

7. Yeah, that young girl was firing a rocket.

I'm sure of it! :sarcasm:

[RaleighNCDUer]

26. What was it? 14 rockets, and 800 artillery shells?

Just tit for tat, I guess.

[Ian David]

3. No idea. I guess Israelis just fire rockets at random for no reason.

I wonder why they never fire rockets at Jordan?

Hmm...

Maybe because Jordan doesn't shoot rockets at them?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

8. So the young girl that was killed was firing rockets?

Interesting. :eyes:

[Ian David]

12. It's tragic, yes. An innocent was accidentally killed

Especially in light of the fact that the Palestinians never intentionally target civilians.

Those suicide bombers on the busses?

They were all on their way to miltary bases when their bombs detonated accidentally.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

13. Oh they don't?

Interesting - that's not what defectors from the Israeli Army have claimed.

[barb162]

14. Hark, this must be true what you posted

Israel does not just fire rockets when it has not been fired upon. Egypt too...I haven't noticed Egypt complaining about Israel just firing rockets into Egypt...maybe because Egypt isn't attacking it daily.
:hi:

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

16. Maybe you should ask Syria about the Golan Heights.

:hi:

[barb162]

21. Syria? The guys who are being investigated for killingHariri

and who bring over David Duke for big public appearances?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6967302/
Lebanese ex-PM’s family urges killing probe
Funeral procession turns into spontaneous rally against Syria
snip

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4892650.stm
The head of the UN's investigation into the assassination of Lebanon's Prime Minister Rafik Hariri is set to go to Damascus to meet the Syrian president.

snip

UN progress reports have implicated Syria in the murder of Mr Hariri but Damascus denies any involvement. snip



http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/051122/2005112209.html
David Duke in Damascus to express solidarity with Syria
Syria-USA, Politics, 11/22/2005

Former US Louisiana Representative David Duke on Monday expresses solidarity with Syria in face of the pressures and threats against the country.

snip

Why would anyone want to talk to them?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

23. What does that have to do with the theft of the Golan Heights?

[barb162]

4. You're referring to the daily Gaza -Pal based kassam attacks

on Israel? Yes, I will agree that is terrorism and it has been going on for months

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

5. Considering that's always called terrorism, no.

I'm referring to the Israeli attacks on Palestinian civilians.

[barb162]

6. But I am referencing the Palestinian rockets hitting Israel daily

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

9. And I'm referencing the Israeli rockets hitting Palestine daily.

[barb162]

10. Well, don't you suppose the Israelis are responding to the

DAILY months-long attacks from Gaza on Israel?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

11. Well, you don't suppose Palestinians are responding to the DECADES long

attacks from Israel, the 2nd class citizen subjugation, and the theft of their homeland?

[barb162]

15. Gaza was evacuated by Israel in Sept.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

17. Have they evacuated ALL of Palestinian territories?

On edit: Also, are you saying that they were right to make attacks from Gaza before September?

[pelsar]

18. by leaving gaza....

israel is no long occupying gaza.....the very day israel left gaza, they were rewareded with 30 missles.....perhaps if the palestenian didnt fire missles from gaza israel wouldnt have to shoot back?

(hint: look at egypt, syria, jordan for examples of how israel reacts when not fired upon....)

given that it was israel that attempted to stop the cycle of violence by actually removing the occupation...and was immediatly rewarded with additional and continual attempts to kill israelis, i would think that attempts to stop the missles is reasonable.

but then there are those that prefer to believe that israelis being terrorized is perfectly ok...

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

20. Maybe truth doesn't enter the equation for you.

But for me, and quite honestly, most of the rest of the world, truth does not side with you.

[Phx_Dem]

24. thank for sharing your wisdom vash

Nice to hear that DU has a spokesperson for "the rest of the world".

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

29. No need to thank me. Thank the UN. (nt)

[barb162]

32. Annan concerned about growing violence between Israel, Palestine: spokes

Try it again, Vash


Annan concerned about growing violence between Israel, Palestine: spokesman
http://english.people.com.cn/200604/10/eng20060410_257273.html
snip

"The secretary general calls on the Palestinian Authority to take a clear public stand against violence and to take firm measures against the perpetrators of rocket attacks and suicide bombings," the UN statement said.

snip

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[barb162]

39. And your meaning is?

BTW do you disagree with the article for a halt ot the violence?

[idontwantaname]

48. there is violence in the region...

but you seem not to hold israel responsible for its fair share.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[barb162]

40. Read the entire article calling for an end to hostilities!

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

41. Did you read this part?

"The secretary general calls on the government of Israel to ensure that its responses are proportionate and do not endanger the civilian population. He asks both sides to act in conformity with international law, and to refrain from taking any steps which further escalate the violence," the statement added.

Methinks you have some incredibly thick blinders on.

[barb162]

42. I read the WHOLE article

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

44. Then why do you insist on selectively quoting and intentionally skewing?

[cali]

43. Just my opinion, but

I think both of you have blinders on. In fact, I see very few of us in I/P who don't wear blinders.

[Violet_Crumble]

53. Interesting how you only posted the bit about Palestinian violence...

So I've got to ask. Do you agree with Annan when he called for a halt of violence from both sides?

Violet...

[barb162]

30. Yeah, I thought the Quartet is pretty much the rest of the world.

:hi:

[Violet_Crumble]

54. You thought wrong...

n/t

[barb162]

27. You are wrong there. Are you seeing anyone stepping up with

big-time aid to the Hamas government? There are some dribs and drabs from the Saudis, Kuwait, Turkey, etc.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

28. A few hundred lopsided measures against Israel from the UN say otherwise

[barb162]

35. Yeah all from the "Arab" states voting as a bloc against Israel

...meaningless. It won't surprise me if there are some more coming because of the Israeli counteroffensive. Of course, there won't be any for the kassam attacks on Israel.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

36. I don't think consistent 146-12 votes are all just from Arab states. (nt)

[Andromeda]

56. Truth? Truth? You can't HANDLE the truth!

Just doing a little Jack Nickleson there. I hate to tell you this, but you don't speak for the rest of the world, sonny.

Your truth is not my truth so please do not assume to speak for me---or the rest of the world.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

22. Hint: Look at how Egypt and Jordan react when you don't fire missiles

at them.

And you're only kidding yourself if you think they're trying to end the cycle of violence. They came to the realization that if they continued the occupation, they'd soon be outnumbered by Palestinians, which would force them to either give up their Jewish-based state or stop being a democracy. Their "altruism" is not the stuff Nobel winners are made of. If they wanted to stop the cycle of violence, they'd release political prisoner, they'd end the checkpoints that make swiss cheese out of the Palestinian territories, they would enter relations with the SOVEREIGN, DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED Palestinian government, and they'd actually follow the road map, which has been followed on nearly every count possible by the Palestinians.

[cali]

45. Do the Palestinians have an obligation

to do anything to contribute to the establishment of peace, or are they excused because of the Occupation? Does Israel, in your opinion, have a right to exist as a Jewish state or do you believe that its creation was illegitimate and therefore that abrogates its rights to exist as it's structured? Should the Palestinians recognize Israel's right to exist in its pre 1967configuration?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

46. The Palestinians followed the ENTIRE first phase of the Road Map.

Israel did not even take one step.

Israel has a right to exist. I do believe its creation was even worse than the creation of the United States, where we took the land from the Native Americans. The British unilaterally took the land from the people living there and gave it away. However, I'm not calling for either the U.S. or Israel to be disbanded. We lived in a different day and age then.

However, just like with the Indians, today is different. Today, we should be doing whatever it takes to right those wrongs. Israel should stop subjugating Palestinians to 2nd-class citizen status. It should restore full control of their land, money, and people to their respectful places. As a "civilized" nation, it should root out terrorists the way civilized nations do - through rule of law, not through unilateral, blind, and unnecessary force (which means firing missiles from air craft into crowded downtown streets to kill one SUSPECTED terrorist is NOT acceptable). It should cease using flechette rounds which are banned by international law. It should stop bulldozing homes of SUSPECTED terrorists. And while we're talking about SUSPECTED terrorists, every person should have the right to a fair trial. It should remove checkpoints throughout Palestinian territories such that it does not take nearly a day get across the same city, making it logistically impossible to live. It should stop attacking medical and educational personnel.

Some of these things should sound familiar, because they're the exact same things we demand of Bushco when it comes to our dealing with Iraq, Guantanamo Bay, and every other country in the world. These are basic human rights that are being denied. As I say elsewhere, I do denounce ALL forms of terror. The Palestinians are not right when they bomb buses and kill civilians. But Israelis are killing non-combative civilians at a rate of 4 Palestinian innocents to 1 Israeli innocent. I am not going to sit here and let people paint that as Israel "defending" itself any more than I sit here and call what the United States does in Iraq "defending itself".

[cali]

47. Your first claim is

debatable.

I agree that Israel uses unneccesary force in rooting out terrorism, and I condemn that. There should be an effort by Israel to enable Palestinians to live a normal life with greater freedom of movement. I support Israel dismantling the settlements and an Israel with pre-1967 borders. I do not believe that either the Palestinians are the Israelis should have sole jurisdiction over Jerusalem.

You suggest that "It should restore full control of their land, money, and people to their respectful places." Do you mean that Israel should allow an unfettered right of return to all the descendants of Palestinians who fled or were forced to leave what is now Israel? When you speak of reparations, what exactly do you envision? All of this broad brush stuff, (and I've engaged in it too, right here in this post) is essentially pretty useless.

[Englander]

49. Re the Road Map, I don't think the claim's debatable.

The intention was to sideline Yasir, & to appoint a PM. A month after Abbas was appointed,
the details of the RM were released, in June '03 there was a summit in Aqaba, & a week after the
summit was Jabba's response to any suggestion that the proposals in the Road Map should
be implemented. Namely, a helicopter strike in the middle of Gaza City aimed at Rantissi.
Result = end of Road Map.


' Sharon endorses Palestinian state

Simon Jeffery and agencies
Wednesday June 4, 2003

Against the backdrop of the royal palace palms in Aqaba, Jordan, the Israeli and Palestinian prime ministers today pledged to support the establishment of an independent Palestinian state.

At the end of a meeting with the US president, George Bush, the Palestinian prime minister, Mahmoud Abbas, said: "Our goal is two states, Israel and Palestine, living side by side."

His Israeli counterpart, Ariel Sharon, said: "It is up to the Palestinians to govern themselves in their own state."

Mr Bush, who convened the summit to begin progress along the "road map" to an Israeli-Palestinian settlement by 2005, said: "Each of us is here because we understand that all people have the right to live in peace. Great and hopeful change is coming to the Middle East"

"The Holy Land must be shared between a state of Palestine and of Israel living together in peace."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,970282,00.html

______________________________


'Last Updated: Tuesday, 10 June, 2003, 14:17 GMT 15:17 UK

Israeli air strike targets Hamas leader

One of the most prominent leaders of the Palestinian militant group Hamas, Abdel-Aziz al-Rantissi, has been wounded in an Israeli helicopter strike in Gaza City.

Mr Rantissi's jeep was driving through a busy street when it was hit by several missiles and burst into flames, witnesses said.

Mr Rantissi leapt clear of the vehicle seconds before the missiles hit, and was lightly wounded.

At least two Palestinians were killed and another 25 people - including Mr Rantissi's son - were injured, medical sources at Gaza City's Shifa Hospital said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2977530.stm

[cali]

50. The road map goes far further back then 2003,

and it has been fraught with a lack of good will on both sides. I realize that you believe it's all one sided, but many people, on both sides, recognize that both sides have lacked the will to make the road to peace a reality. Posting two articles. with, I suppose the objective, of juxtaposing Sharon's words with the attack on Rantissi, doesn't prove much of anything regarding the larger picture. It's a snapshot of hypocricy. Something, alas, that can be found on both sides.

[Englander]

52. No, not at all.

The idea that the onus was on 'both sides', or that Jabba had the slightest intention of
implementing the RM, or that only the Occupied should observe the laws of war, or that only
the Occupied should have the will to implement the Rm, doesn't acknowledge the details of the
larger picture. The whole concept of there being parity, or equality between the 'two sides'
is a myth created by the Occupier. One 'side' has a nuke-equipped, state-of-the-art, super-power
funded military, & is intent on acquiring the prime estate/natural resources of the land, & is
intent on keeping those resources, regardless of the legal niceties. The intention of the GoI is
to annexe the Jordan valley, Jerusalem, the main settlement blocks, & keep the Separation Barrier
as a permanent structure.

My intention with the 2 articles was to provide some history, to show how long the Rm lasted,
once it was formally unveiled - a week. Sorry, less than a week.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

55. Sorry, I wasn't around yesterday.

I apologize for a late reply.

I support the right of return. I don't speak of "reparations", I speak of the millions of dollars of tax revenue that has been withheld from the PA by Israel.

[barb162]

25. Attacks bring counter attacks

and if evacuation of settlements brings more attacks, I am wondering if evacuation of all settlements wouldn't bring even more attacks.
And are you saying that they were right to make attacks from Gaza before September?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

31. I denounce ALL terror attacks.

But unlike you, I denounce them from BOTH sides.

[barb162]

37. I denounce terror attacks

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

38. From Israel?

Really?

[rfkrfk]

51. rockets are being tracked by radar

my advise to a Pali' would be...

if someone is firing rockets from your neighborhood,
get out fast