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CNBC reporting that Israeli security has decided to expell Arafat.

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lindashaw Donating Member (921 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:26 PM
Original message
CNBC reporting that Israeli security has decided to expell Arafat.
Edited on Thu Sep-11-03 12:27 PM by lindashaw
That's all they know. Al-jazeera reports that Arafat could be dead within 24 hours, but that's only the reporter's opinion.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. oh yeah... that will make things better...
:eyes:
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cjbuchanan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
2. Something tells me bad things are on the way
If this story is true, there is about to be some serious bloodshed.

One day I hope this will all stop.
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I've had a really bad feeling over the past few days...
I pray they don't kill Arafat, especially on or near this date in particular.
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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. They will have to kill him cause he's not leaving...
In U.S. shadow, Israel asks: Arafat - Dead or Alive

(snip)

"The world will not help us; we must help
ourselves," the Jerusalem Post wrote in its
Thursday editorial. "And we must kill Yasser
Arafat, because the world leaves us no
alternative."

A banner headline in the mass-circulation
Yedioth Ahronoth daily said that Defense
Minister Shaul Mofaz would urge the security
cabinet to take immediate action against the PA
leader: "Banish him or liquidate him."

Deputy cabinet minister Zvi Hendel of the
ultra-right National Union party said the
government should not stop at expelling Arafat.
Hendel said before the security cabinet meeting
that West Bank and Gaza Palestinians themselves
would welcome a move by Israel to oust all of
the thousands of Palestinian officials,
fighters, and family members who at the outset
of the Oslo peace process accompanied PLO chief
Arafat back from exile in Tunis to the
territories.


(snip)

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=339396&contrassID=1&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y
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okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #12
27. I wonder if suicide bombers 365 days a year will make Isreal
an idea vacation spot.
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durutti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #27
74. That's What Sharon Wants
I'm convinced. It will justify further repression, "transfer", and perhaps ultimately expansion.
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grytpype Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. It will stop when one side or the other is wiped out.
Not within our lifetimes, though.
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Resistance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
3. what I would like to know
which Democrat will stand up and say NO MORE to the violent, right-wing path which Sharon's heavily US supported regime continues to lead the conflict down? We support this butcher, and continue to ignore his incitement, land theft, aggression, and ethnic cleansing occurring in the Occupied Territories.

Or maybe it is exactly how Democrats want it to be?
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tlcandie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Kucinich has, does and will, Resistance. I don't know about others...
:hi:
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twilight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. yep DK get out and out NOW
and a CONSTANT AND CONSISTENT MESSAGE UNLIKE THE OTHER DAMN LIARS OUT THERE!!!!

:kick:
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #3
73. Dean got blasted this week
by Lieberman and Kerry for saying we should take a more "even-handed" approach. Translation: Quit turning a blind eye towards the attrocities being perpetrated against the Palestinians with US paying the bill. Your tax dollars at work -- murdering innocents.
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
7. Not a good thing
Didn't even the White House say this shouldn't happen?

I agree, I see bad times ahead over this.
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
8. Well Folks
Shit has now officially hit fan. Fan is on high!!! Get your canned goods and bottled water, and don't forget those unregistered firearms. A good map of rural routes of the US would be helpful. Also withdraw all your cash you can get your hands on.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #8
39. I HEAR you...
Somthing terrible, something horrific is
about to unfold.
God Damn them all.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
42. We've got all of them
Thanks for the heads up though.
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frank frankly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #42
68. good planning
i, sadly, have not planned well

that is going to change...
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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
9. Ha'aretz News flash:
Ha'aretz News Flash:

"20:18 Security cabinet decides `in principle` that Arafat can be expelled; no operational steps undertaken (Channel 2)"

"19:07 Egyptian President Mubarak says Israel expelling Arafat would lead to terrorism and unknown grave repercussions"

"18:45 Arafat on possible expulsion by Israel: `No one can kick me out,` and will `definitely not` go of own accord "

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/ShTickers.html

Also;

Sharon convenes security cabinet on response to attacks

(snip)

Arafat himself vowed Thursday to stay put,
despite the IDF commandeering a building
overlooking his compound in the West Bank city
of Ramallah earlier in the day as a "message"
to him and his PA.

"No one can kick me out," Arafat said. Asked if
he would leave of his own accord, he said,
"definitely not."

"This is my homeland. This is Terra Sancta. No
one can kick me out," he told reporters. "They
can kill me. They have bombs," he said.

(snip)


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maxsolomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. pretty words, yasser
the IDF can kick your ass out no sweat. tunisia again?

maybe sharon should negotiate with hamas directly, instead of killing them & the children they live amongst.
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Sharon doesn't want to negotiate.
Haven't you gotten that, yet? And killing Palestinian children does not seem to be a problem to the IDF. Look, neither side in this thing is clean. If you demonize the Palestinians, the same goes as well for Israel. This has got to stop and the only way to stop it seems to be to stop Sharon - just like the only way to cure the US's troubles is to stop Bush. There has to be someone, somewhere who can make these two peoples see that this road leads to death - period - no victories, no peace, no living in harmony! Stop now or everyone dies.
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maxsolomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #15
35. dude, i knew that
i pretty much think both sides suck.

palestinians are doing a pretty good job of demonizing themselves, as are the IDF, mossad, crazy fundy settlers, etc.
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Yeah, sorry if I jumped the gun.
This whole issue is so loaded, such a freakin' powder keg, I guess maybe I got a little over excited. Peace.
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nn2004 Donating Member (172 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
21. expelling Arafat would lead to terrorism
Lead to terrorism? Am I missing something? When did it ever stop?
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #21
52. Come on.
At least be honest. There was weeks of quiet, while the settlements continued, the assassinations continued, the dispossession continued.
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number6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #21
72. expelling Arafat would lead to a higher level of terrorism.
it certainly won't lead to quiet....
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jmcgowanjm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
13. Fundies rejoice! We're almost there! YEEHAAA!
And after Arafat we can knock down that AL Aqsa Mosque!

And rebuild Solomon's Temple!

Hey when Rapture comes, can I have your car?
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4_Legs_Good Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. Great joke (among grave events)
I've never heard "When the Rapture comes can I have your car?" before. That's FANTASTIC!!

:)

I've always hated the audacity of people with "When the Rapture comes this car will be empty." bumperstickers. I guess they have a lot of faith, but isn't humility also a virtue?

david

Kucinich 2004

Arianna YES
Recall No
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bif Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
14. Man I thought our guys were crazy
But THOSE fuckers are real crazy!
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
16. "Expel" ?
?
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
17. Wait a second...Is it just a coincidence that Sharon chose
Edited on Thu Sep-11-03 01:07 PM by janx
to do this TODAY of all days?

Edit: Apparently it was the Israeli cabinet, not Sharon.

What is going on over there?
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #17
45. No coincidence-
COMPLETELY deliberate.
Sharon is one of the PNAC good ole boys,
and chaos, chaos, chaos is their mantra!

Please take note that the Washington side of the Cabal
is sticking close to their bunker today?
They KNOW all about what is going down.

Fasten you seatbelts folks- it's gonna get seriously bad.
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. I am getting seriously angry, and I have to teach in a few hours.
But think about the chronology here: the Osama tape yesterday, the 9/11 anniversary today, and this episode just happens to go down--the Isreali cabinet announcing that they will expel Sharon--today!

I'm a skeptic and not prone to conspiracy theories.

Does the PNAC want a full-blown Arab war?!
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. Absolutely.
Ledeen espouses the belief that in order to
reconstruct, you must completely deconstruct.
Create chaos to set the foundation of creating a new order.
I'd say they are well on their way as of today.

Teach well, my friend.
I have decided to live my life giving the best
I have to those I come in contact with- in the moment I am living.
As a teacher, you are in such a position to do the same-
It appears to be the only control we have in our lives
from here out.
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lindashaw Donating Member (921 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #48
56. Don't forget Bush's sly request for expanded security powers...
slipped in just before the memorial services today. Did he think we wouldn't notice that he asked to expand the death penalty, do searches without judges, etc?
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Nottingham Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
18. I'm not surprised at all!
Arafat is definitely the main guy here and they have to get rid of him! Its amazing how long he has remained in power! :bounce:
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LeftistGorilla Donating Member (583 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #18
70. I say the same....
for Sharon....
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E_Zapata Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
19. I guess Sharon feels safe since there are 150,000 troops in Iraq -
so that when the entire arab world descends on Israel the day after they kill Arafat - there will be some allies around to help pick up the pieces.

If that's what Sharon is asking for - have at it.

This is insane.
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StandWatie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
20. big damn deal
It won't change anything and I doubt it would happen, Israel likes to pretend that Arafat is control of everything over there and they aren't about to throw away their favorite boogeyman.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. yeah..
... just like Bush* would never be dumb enough to tie Iraq into the "war on terror".

One thing is for sure, if they off Arafat, things will change. They will get a lot worse, not better.
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StandWatie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. *shrug*
Things really can't get any worse one way, I don't think it's possible to make the Palestinians any angrier than they already are. They are going to attack when they can and the only thing the Israeli's could do worse than they are doing right now is outright ethnic cleansing and if that happens or doesn't has little to do with Arafat's survival.
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Coventina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
22. Calling for karmic energy!!!
Please, all DUers everywhere we need a spiritual intervention!

Whatever your path, please take time to pray, meditate, spell-cast, focus your positive self, whatever. This could lead to disaster of global magnitude.

When you have done that, we need to bombard our gov't with demands that Sharon be stopped. He MUST NOT DO THIS!
Is Arafat guilty? I'm sure of it. But Israel has lost any semblence of sanity if they think the exile or execution of Arafat will help them.
AND ISRAEL HAS BLOODY HANDS AS WELL!
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StandWatie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. it doesn't matter that much..
Honestly, don't get worked up over this, I think it's bullshit for one and for two nothing will change if it does. Barghouti would likely take his place and he is more honest about his goals and scrupulous about public funds.
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #24
41. I think you are correct in much that you say,
but Arafat represents the entire struggle for existence to the Palestinian people. He is their George Washington and their FDR rolled into one. It isn't the reality of the situation or our view of it that is pertinent, it is the view of the Palestinian people that matters.
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StandWatie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #41
51. he could fill the same role dead
Probably better than alive actually :shrug:
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
25. C'mon junior do your magic
Remember your a uniter not a divider, 'eh?

How can this being going right before our very eyes? Israel is making a big mistake by leaving Ariel Sharon in control.
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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
26. Arafat was elected. They have no right.
In January 1996 Arafat was elected the first president of the Palestinian Council governing the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/WorldNewsTonight/profile_arafat.html

-------------

Palestinian elections to be held next year

· Presidential vote in January
· Arafat to stand, says aide
· Judicial reforms promised

Staff and agencies
Wednesday June 26, 2002

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,744306,00.html

-----------------

Palestinian elections postponed


Arafat promised to hold elections in January

The Palestinian leadership has postponed plans to hold general elections next month, Palestinian officials have said.
Palestinian cabinet minister Saeb Erekat told the BBC's Newshour programme it was impossible to convene the election on 20 January because of "Israeli obstruction".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2599293.stm


There was international oversite. Jimmy Carter was involved in the monitoring, and pronounced them open and fair.

Perhaps Jimmy's opinion is worth 'shite' to you, but I still value it.

Whether you, Bush, or Sharon like it or not, Arafat is the preferred choice of the Palestinians as their leader, and that's not likely to change no matter how many uninformed comments you pass on the elections.


-------------

Despite everything that Israel did to rail-road these elections by, for example, setting up road-blocks to intimidate people from getting to the polls, people flocked to vote and the elections were conducted fairly and openly, under the monitoring of Jimmy Carter and European Watch Teams.

The problem is that neither Israel nor the US wants to respect the wishes of the Palestinian people and need to demonize Arafat to replace him with some sort of a puppet. Carter has already warned both Bush and Israel about the folly of pursuing that but hell, when have those two ever listened to anyone?

U.S. Department of State
96/01/22 Daily Press Briefing
Office of the Spokesman



U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
DAILY PRESS BRIEFING

I N D E X

Monday, January 22, 1996

Briefer: Nicholas Burns


<snip>

The United States congratulates the Palestinian people on yesterday's elections, and we congratulate Chairman Arafat on his election, as well as those elected to the Palestinian Council. We share the view of the international monitoring community that the election was a successful and historic opportunity for the Palestinian people democratically to choose their leaders.

Election authorities overcame many challenges to prepare for this historic event. There has been an enthusiastic and popular response throughout the election process, including a very high turnout during registration, the participation of nearly 700 candidates for the 88 seats on the Council, a lively campaign, and a very high electoral turnout over the weekend.

<snip>

MR. BURNS: I would note that there was a massive international monitoring presence, and the American monitoring team was led by former President Jimmy Carter. Our Consulate General in Jerusalem had people throughout the West Bank. Our Embassy in Tel Aviv had, I think, 40 people in Gaza.

There were some irregularities. We understand that there is counting that continues in some districts, but I think it was a credible process -- the electoral process -- and I think on balance it was certainly free and fair. That's how we judge it, based on the reports that we have received, both from former President Carter but also from the European Union monitoring team. Both those teams have made statements.

Q Nick, do you have any concern about the very heavy Israeli security presence at the voting places in East Jerusalem and the impact that apparently had on the turnout?

<snip>

Q Nick, do you have any concern about the very heavy Israeli security presence at the voting places in East Jerusalem and the impact that apparently had on the turnout?

MR. BURNS: Mark, I've just seen the press reports on that. What I've not seen is a report from our Consulate in Jerusalem, which would have been best placed to have observed that if we had people there -- and I assume we had some people in East Jerusalem.

So pending our analysis of what the ConGen says, I think I'd like to reserve some judgment on that particular question.

Q But can you explain why he hasn't reported yet?

MR. BURNS: I have not seen the report. I assume that there is going to be a report from the ConGen. The ConGen may have reported, and it may be just a case that I haven't seen the report. But I'd like to reserve judgment on your question until I have a chance to at least see a report and perhaps even talk to some people who were there.

Q But have you seen the comment by former President Carter saying it was clear that there was an attempt to intimidate the voters in East Jerusalem?

MR. BURNS: Yes, I have seen that comment.

Q And do you give it any credence now?

MR. BURNS: Former President Carter said what he did. He was in charge of the U.S. monitoring team, and I think that his statement has to speak for itself.

<snip>


http://dosfan.lib.uic.edu/ERC/briefing/daily_briefings/1996/9601/960122db.html

------------------------

Palestinian elections were monitored by international observers, including Jimmy Carter.

http://www.io.com/~jewishwb/iris/archives/457.html
http://leb.net/~bcome/palestine/ierley.html
http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAH01ei0


----------------------





Yasser Arafat – Biography*
Mohammed Abdel-Raouf Arafat As Qudwa al-Hussaeini was born on 24 August 1929 in Cairo1, his father a textile merchant who was a Palestinian with some Egyptian ancestry, his mother from an old Palestinian family in Jerusalem. She died when Yasir, as he was called, was five years old, and he was sent to live with his maternal uncle in Jerusalem, the capital of Palestine, then under British rule, which the Palestinians were opposing. He has revealed little about his childhood, but one of his earliest memories is of British soldiers breaking into his uncle's house after midnight, beating members of the family and smashing furniture.

After four years in Jerusalem, his father brought him back to Cairo, where an older sister took care of him and his siblings. Arafat never mentions his father, who was not close to his children. Arafat did not attend his father's funeral in 1952.

In Cairo, before he was seventeen Arafat was smuggling arms to Palestine to be used against the British and the Jews. At nineteen, during the war between the Jews and the Arab states, Arafat left his studies at the University of Faud I (later Cairo University) to fight against the Jews in the Gaza area. The defeat of the Arabs and the establishment of the state of Israel left him in such despair that he applied for a visa to study at the University of Texas. Recovering his spirits and retaining his dream of an independent Palestinian homeland, he returned to Faud University to major in engineering but spent most of his time as leader of the Palestinian students.

He did manage to get his degree in 1956, worked briefly in Egypt, then resettled in Kuwait, first being employed in the department of public works, next successfully running his own contracting firm. He spent all his spare time in political activities, to which he contributed most of the profits. In 1958 he and his friends founded Al-Fatah, an underground network of secret cells, which in 1959 began to publish a magazine advocating armed struggle against Israel. At the end of 1964 Arafat left Kuwait to become a full-time revolutionary, organising Fatah raids into Israel from Jordan.

It was also in 1964 that the Palestine Liberation Organisation (PLO) was established, under the sponsorship of the Arab League, bringing together a number of groups all working to free Palestine for the Palestinians. The Arab states favoured a more conciliatory policy than Fatah's, but after their defeat by Israel in the 1967 Six-Day War, Fatah emerged from the underground as the most powerful and best organised of the groups making up the PLO, took over that organisation in 1969 when Arafat became the chairman of the PLO executive committee. The PLO was no longer to be something of a puppet organisation of the Arab states, wanting to keep the Palestinians quiet, but an independent nationalist organisation, based in Jordan.

Arafat developed the PLO into a state within the state of Jordan with its own military forces. King Hussein of Jordan, disturbed by its guerrilla attacks on Israel and other violent methods, eventually expelled the PLO from his country. Arafat sought to build a similar organisation in Lebanon, but this time was driven out by an Israeli military invasion. He kept the organization alive, however, by moving its headquarters to Tunis. He was a survivor himself, escaping death in an airplane crash, surviving any assassination attempts by Israeli intelligence agencies, and recovering from a serious stroke.

His life was one of constant travel, moving from country to country to promote the Palestinian cause, always keeping his movements secret, as he did any details about his private life. Even his marriage to Suha Tawil, a Palestinian half his age, was kept secret for some fifteen months. She had already begun significant humanitarian activities at home, especially for disabled children, but the prominent part she took in the public events in Oslo was a surprise for many Arafat-watchers. Since then, their daughter, Zahwa, named after Arafat's mother, has been born.

The period after the expulsion from Lebanon was a low time for Arafat and the PLO. Then the intifada (shaking) protest movement strengthened Arafat by directing world attention to the difficult plight of the Palestinians. In 1988 came a change of policy. In a speech at a special United Nations session held in Geneva, Switzerland, Arafat declared that the PLO renounced terrorism and supported "the right of all parties concerned in the Middle East conflict to live in peace and security, including the state of Palestine, Israel and other neighbours".

The prospects for a peace agreement with Israel now brightened. After a setback when the PLO supported Iraq in the Persian Gulf War of 1991, the peace process began in earnest, leading to the Oslo Accords of 1993.

This agreement included provision for the Palestinian elections which took place in early 1996, and Arafat was elected President of the Palestine Authority. Like other Arab regimes in the area, however, Arafat's governing style tended to be more dictatorial than democratic. When the right-wing government of Benjamin Netanyahu came to power in Israel in 1996, the peace process slowed down considerably. Much depends upon the nature of the new Israeli government, which will result from the elections to be held in 1999.



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StandWatie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. I think they have the "right"
I think decapitation is almost always the wrong move but I would say Palestinians have exactly the same "right" to knock off Sharon if they could lay hands on him.
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wabeewoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #26
49. Thanks for the post.
I think bush opened this door very wide by removing Saddam who was the head of a soverign nation. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard for the hypocrite (bush) to tell Israel to do as I say not as I do. Israel doesn't have the right. I don't want to see all out war over there but it is time the rest of the Arab world stand up and say 'enough.'
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LeftistGorilla Donating Member (583 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #26
71. Jokes on you...
Palestinians HAVE no rights!~
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UnapologeticLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
30. WHAT????
Are you serious? They threaten this all the time but I never thought they would actually go through with it...something tells me someone will intervene and stop them before they do it.

New Dean blog:
http://deangrassroots.blogspot.com

Cool Dean stuff:
http://www.cafeshops.com/deangrassroots
http://www.cafeshops.com/youhavethepower
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
31. Arafat's fate now in Hamas's hands...
And I'm afraid there are many in Hamas that would love to see Arafat go. But Sharon knows that...
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smallprint Donating Member (778 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
32. they are just bluffing

this haaretz article
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/339400.html
says the united states still opposes expelling arafat. if the usa says no, it's not going to happen, period, no matter how much sharon screams and threatens.
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StandWatie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. absolutely correct
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Trek234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #32
65. The USA PUBLICLY says no
But what does Bush say in a private phone call to Sharon?
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
36. Hmm... Israel kills Arafat, while the Russians are moving to Saudi Arabia.
Anybody ever read Ezekiel 38 & 39??

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lindashaw Donating Member (921 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #36
57. Yes!
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Trek234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #36
66. No
Tell me about it.

I know very little about the bible.
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dolstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
38. Frankly, that's better than he deserves
Edited on Thu Sep-11-03 03:26 PM by dolstein
Arafat is a lifelong terrorist who has achieved the status of statesman through sheer longevity. No doubt the Palestinian sympathizers around here would say the same thing about Sharon. And does anyone doubt that if the shoe were on the other foot, the Palestinians would have gotten rid of Sharon long ago?
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soleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. What do you mean by
if the shoe were on the other foot?
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StandWatie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #40
44. If they had the ability
I'm sure they would have and Dolstein is probably correct. Decapitation, regardless of how many idiots tell you "cut off the head and the body will die", is almost universally a bad idea especially when dealing with revolutionary movements. There are dozens of Palestinian revolutionary groups all with their own agenda and without a central figure to make peace with you have essentially signed on to a neverending war.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #44
53. You Are A Welcome Voice Of Reason, Mr. Watie
That is much appreciated.
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jmcgowanjm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #53
69. Hello, the Magistrate, you still online?
Haven't heard from you in a while.


have we been trolling different Sectors?
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #38
55. So you admit that Arafat and Sharon are both terrorists
Great. Then why does Arafat have to go, whil;e Sharon, the IDF, the bulldozers and the Tribute to the Berlin Wall are allowed to stay?

If you want an end to terrorism in the Middle East, you can't be showing preferences to one terrorist over another.

They oughta lock Sharon & Arafat in a room with no windows. Hopefully neither would survive. If one of them does, throw in the PNAC'ers one by one until none of them remain standing. Throw in Osama and Saddam as well, if you can find them.

And if not a single one of them walk away from it - including Sharon and Shrub - then the world just got a Hell of a lot safer!
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #38
59. My Likud Party Line Alarm is ringing. . . .
Focus on Arafat, Focus on Arafat . . .

Ignore Occupation, Ignore Occupation . . .

Must avoid Peace, Must obtain the Land . . .
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loudnclear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
43. How can we call ourselves a "civilized nation" and "the world's only
super power" and allow and even join Israel in doing this? How can we just keep ignoring the atoscities that Israel commits and just focus on the ones committed by the Palestinians? It is unreal!!
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
46. Well it's not like he has the ability to communicate with anyone
Oh yeah cell phones never mind.
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ScotTissue Donating Member (294 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
47. AT LEAST THEY KNOW WHERE ARAFAT IS
That's an improvement over "our" guys, Osama and Saddam.....
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Not a robought Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #47
60. Heheh
that's assuming we don't know where Osama and Saddam are...
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
54. I said it last night and I'll say it again
Israel is committing slow motion suicide.This would be a grave mistake on their part.As bad as things are now taking Arafat out would only compund the problems by a large factor.

I wish I had some answers.Arafat is a sleazebag of the highest magnitude,but this would be a serious mistake in judgement on the part of the Israelis.
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Gloria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
58. Here's one view on this whole mess...Analysis from ATimes...
Edited on Thu Sep-11-03 04:51 PM by Gloria
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/EI11Ak02.html

Sept. 10, 2003
The Twin Towers and the Tower of Babel
Part 2 : The roadmap of human folly
By Pepe Escobar

SNIP

The OSP is just one more arm of the neo-cons - especially Wolfowitz and Feith - in a central strategy of supporting Ariel Sharon's hardcore policy against the Palestinians. Sharon was never interested in the success of the Middle East roadmap to peace - which would imply painful concessions from Israel towards the Palestinians. It's no surprise that Perle, Feith and Wolfowitz are now targeting Iran, Syria, Lebanon and Saudi Arabia with a vengeance - with the same barrage of fake "intelligence reports" accusing Arab countries of funding, protecting and promoting terrorism, and now sending terrorists to Iraq. All the fake intelligence is provided by OSP operatives and their elaborate networks.

European intelligence reads the death of the roadmap in the Middle East as a coup deliberately orchestrated by the Israeli military, with Ariel Sharon and his Defense Minister Shaoul Mofaz as commanders (and following Wolfowitz's advice). That's the same view of Israeli writer and peace activist Uri Avnery, "The military was upset when it saw the new hope that took hold of the Israeli public, the bullish mood of the stock exchange, the rise in value of the shekel, the return of the masses to the entertainment centers, the signs of optimism on both sides. In effect, it was a spontaneous popular vote against the military policy."

Sharon's strategy was first to isolate and discredit Palestinian prime minister Abu Mazen; then not even trying to fulfill roadmap commitments (remove settlements, stop the construction of the "Wall of Shame" separating Israel and Palestine, withdraw the army from the whole West Bank). Finally, with the end of the hudna (truce), Sharon has given Israeli army tanks and helicopters the chance to wreak havoc in Palestine all over again.

As Sharon is very close with George W Bush - and also managed to convince him that virtually all Palestinians are terrorists - his plan, says Avnery, just explored "the simplistic world of Bush with its good guys and bad guys. The bad guys are the terrorists. Therefore, it was advisable to kill Hamas and Islamic jihad militants. That would not upset Bush. In the eyes of the president, to kill terrorists is a good thing. And as a result, the Palestinians would be compelled to break the hudna." That's exactly what happened. Avnery's summary is totally shared by European intelligence analysts: Sharon killed the roadmap because he was against it from the beginning. Bush saw it only as a photo opportunity and former premier Abu Mazen did not get from Israel and the US anything he could show to the Palestinians, who treated him as a "traitor" and a "puppet" of the US and Israel. So it's back to all-out bloody confrontation.

MORE
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Evil_Dewers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
61. OK
Why do most people here need to be 100% in the Israel or Palestinians column?

Arafat is scum. So is Sharon. The US to stay the fuck out of the matter until the "Holy Land" (which has seen more bloodshed per capita than any place in the world the last 6,000 years) is nuked (either by Palestinian terrorists or by Israeli terrorists ). AT this point I say, "Fuck 'em all."

The Israelis should relocate to Utah. Then there would be two reasons not to ever visit that state . Three if you include Senator Oral Hatch and four if you include the Osmonds. Oh, and I have no desire to ever visit Jerusalem since millions of Jews, Muslims and Christians who claim to have a religious afinity with that desert shithole have invoked God to justify murder of gentiles, infidels, and the savage non-believers in His (or Her or Its) name.
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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. Someones been reading Bartcop?
:thumbsup:
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Evil_Dewers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. Re: Bartcop
Edited on Thu Sep-11-03 05:13 PM by Evil_Dewers
Actually, I haven't visited Bartcop for a couple of weeks since my employer blocked him (but not rushlimbaugh.com)--which just proves that great minds think alike (if Bart said the same thing).
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #61
67. I've said it before....
... and I'll say it again - there are NO good guys in the Middle East conflict. Both the Palestinians and Israel have behaved reprehensibly. The problem is that our government consistently favors one side over the other, and now *we* are being pulled into the morass that others created. Too bad.
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Not a robought Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
63. Overheard in the proximity of John Poindexter's house:
"Woohoo! The Terror Future's Market works!!! It really works!!! I'm going to be so f__in' rich!!!"
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