Anger and grief amid Gaza rubble

[bemildred]

---

For 48 hours, Mr Khatar, his wife, daughter, and two grandchildren, huddled in the back room of their house as Israeli tanks and soldiers fought Palestinian militants in the street outside.

Whenever the family heard gunfire they dived to the floor, fearful that a bullet would penetrate the house's breezeblock walls.

But by Saturday morning, the Israeli army had pulled out of Beit Lahiya, leaving churned-up roads and agricultural plots; damaged water pipes and electricity lines; and demolished walls and shattered windows.

"We were like prisoners. The children were living in fear," says Mr Khatar, standing beside his front door, which is now lying on the side of the road.

bbc

[Totallybushed]

1. it's really too bad

for all the suffering the Palestinian people are undergoing. If they put their anger in the right direction, things could change for them.

[G2099]

2. What is the "right direction" for the Palestinian to put their Anger?

[Totallybushed]

4. Towards their own leadership n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

6. But it's Israel that's bombing them...

Expecting yr average Palestinian to look beyond the fact that it's Israel bombing their homes and killing civilians is like expecting Israelis to look beyond attacks on their civilians. It's unrealistic to expect either to do that...

[pelsar]

8. on the contrary...

israel does have protests against gaza against the settlements...despite the killings the israeli govt, due to pressure from the street, left gaza...even when we all knew that the attacks would not cease and the kassams would still fly.

the palestenaisn do not get a free pass, they too must make move despite the killings...they are have no less a responsability toward their own as do the israelis....they are not a lesser people....it is not unrealistic, nor is it easy, but the key to gaza lies with the palestenains now.

[Totallybushed]

10. No, it isn't.

The average Palestinian voted for a party whose known objective is the destruction of Israel. They (most, not all) of them want to wage war on Israel. They just don't want Israel to wage war on them. This is clearly unreasonable.

But they can stop the current incursion. Just return the soldier unharmed.

[pelsar]

11. i'm not sure...

they voted in hamas and i would say that the vast majority doesnt want israel around (the vast majority of the israelis would like the palestenians to disappear as well)..however since were not going anywhere and neither are they, somewhere, somehow they will learn to accept us. It took israel a while to accept the future palestenian state (intifada I)...and it was via the violence of it, True it only amounted to rocks, molotov cocktails, beatings, etc but it was enough for the israeli society to understand.

The palestenian society is perhaps a bit more stubborn, due to a lot of factors, some of them related to the larger arab culture, some related to the far left 'enabling them" to continue and not compromise, etc. However just as force made the israelis face up to a different reality, so too will force make the difference for the palestenains.

I think this little "skirmish" in gaza is going to have long term implications. Notice none of the arab states are really backing the palestenains (they never did before....)but now its pretty obvious. When this is over the palestenians are going to be left with some hard choices....i hope they chose the ones the deal with their own society and economy and not that of killing......but it will be their choice.

[Totallybushed]

12. Certainly we

can all hope the Palestinians make the right choices. Their track record isnt good, though, and until they renounce the dream of "the right of return" and the destruction of Israel, they won't make the right choices. IMO.

[Violet_Crumble]

20. Actually, it's exactly the same...

Average Israelis have voted for parties whose known objectives were to make sure that a Palestinian state never came into being and to attack Palestinian towns and cities. Like I said, if Israel is shooting missiles that are killing Palestinian civilians, the NORMAL reaction is to get pissed at those who are shooting the rockets. It's the same when the Palestinian militants shoot missiles at Israeli towns. It's totally unfair to expect average Palestinians to react to situations with the sort of complexity that you wouldn't expect any other population to react to....

btw, yr comment that most if not all Palestinians want to wage war on Israel is a falsehood. There was a poll done a few months ago shows otherwise, and it also gives the reason why Palestinians voted for Hamas, which wasn't as some Americans insist anything to do with war...

Significant Opinion results

• When asked if a Hamas led government should continue with the political negotiations since the PA is committed to the option of political negotiations with Israel, a majority of Palestinians (66.3%) approved while (29.6%) called for stoppingthe negotiations with Israel.
  
  
• With regards to the structure of the next government to be formed, a majority (58.1%) prefers a national unity government. A ratio of (24.1%) wants a Hamas government and (13.8%) prefers a technocrat government.
  
  
• When asked why they chose Hamas, the highest ratio (43.0%) of Palestinians whovoted for Hamas said they did vote for Hamas with the hope of ending the corruptionand a ratio of (18.8%) voted for Hamas for religious reasons. Only (11.8%) voted for Hamas because of its political agenda.

http://www.jmcc.org/publicpoll/results/2006/no57.pdf

[AnOhioan]

16. Unrealistic....

Sounds very descriptive of some posters here on DU. I might add condescending and tunnel vision as well. My ignore list is growing.

[Behind the Aegis]

17. I agree.

The other way.

[azurnoir]

3. According to this

Hamas has asked for a cease fire Israel refuses. What has struck me as odd is that Israel claims that their invasion is over this soldier. Hanas has offered to negotiate, Israel refuses "they don't talk with terrorists" however claims that this soldier is still alive, after 2weeks. Does it not seem that if Hamas was the evil terrorists Israel claims they this guy would be dead? Israel is killing Palestinians at a ratio of about 25Palestinians to 1Israeli, if you go back the ratio gets even higher, so whats up? Either Israel is over stating Hamases threat, they already have the soldier back, or he's dead but for whatever reason Israel doesn't want that known.
Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5161034.stm

[DELUSIONAL]

5. Israel funded Hamas as a counterbalance to the PLO --

and now it looks like this Frankenstein Monster has turned on Israel.





Israel and Hamas may currently be locked in deadly combat, but, according to several current and former U.S. intelligence officials, beginning in the late 1970s, Tel Aviv gave direct and indirect financial aid to Hamas over a period of years.

Israel "aided Hamas directly -- the Israelis wanted to use it as a counterbalance to the PLO (Palestinian Liberation Organization)," said Tony Cordesman, Middle East analyst for the Center for Strategic Studies.

Israel's support for Hamas "was a direct attempt to divide and dilute support for a strong, secular PLO by using a competing religious alternative," said a former senior CIA official.

According to documents United Press International obtained from the Israel-based Institute for Counter Terrorism, Hamas evolved from cells of the Muslim Brotherhood, founded in Egypt in 1928. Islamic movements in Israel and Palestine were "weak and dormant" until after the 1967 Six Day War in which Israel scored a stunning victory over its Arab enemies.

After 1967, a great part of the success of the Hamas/Muslim Brotherhood was due to their activities among the refugees of the Gaza Strip. The cornerstone of the Islamic movements success was an impressive social, religious, educational and cultural infrastructure, called Da'wah, that worked to ease the hardship of large numbers of Palestinian refugees, confined to camps, and many who were living on the edge.

"Social influence grew into political influence," first in the Gaza Strip, then on the West Bank, said an administration official who spoke on condition of anonymity.

According to ICT papers, Hamas was legally registered in Israel in 1978 by Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, the movement's spiritual leader, as an Islamic Association by the name Al-Mujamma al Islami, which widened its base of supporters and sympathizers by religious propaganda and social work.

Analysis: Hamas history tied to Israel

United Press International 06/18/02: Richard Sale

Original Link: http://www.upi.com/print.cfm?StoryID=18062002-051845-8272r

[Tom Joad]

7. The US has in several instances thwarted secular democracies in the Middle

East. Look at the overthrow of Mohammed Mossadegh in Iran.

[pelsar]

9. its not just the soldier...

he was the catalyst, the final straw, the IDF is after not just the coporal, the kassams, but the whole infrastructure......negotiotating for the soldier wont stop the kassams, destroying the infrastruture and wrecking havoc with the palestenain lives might (or might not....)

of course other options for stopping the kassams from hitting askelon are: ZERO
(unless someone here has a suggestion....)

[azurnoir]

13. So in reality

the aim is to bring down thw Palestinian government and Israel is willing to sacrifice the soldier to gain this end? Israel could have made the Qassams part of negotiation, if fact that would be expected. If the Palestinians were to release the soldier, would the IDF withdraw?

[pelsar]

14. probably...

if the soldier was released the IDF would probably withdraw.....i dont think the IDF cares so much who is running gaza, the concern is the missles landing on israeli cities.

Given that no single governing body actually runs gaza its not realistic to believe they can also control the kassam shooters.

[azurnoir]

15. But not only

Israel but the America and others say Hamas runs the show, if they are not behind the rocket attacks then who ever is doing is then criminal and Hamas should be responsible for taking them out. I have not read anywhere that Hamas has in told get them or else. Hamas is either the ruling body in Gaza or not. I'm not trying to be negative but it seems that when it is convenient to say Hanas is responsible they are and it is not convenient they (hamas) aren't.

[pelsar]

19. theyre supposed to be....

and they also "claim" they're in charge....but they arent always...however, it nevertheless remains they're responsability to "get control".

which is why when "hamas" says something, claims something...its not to be taken seriously. The only thing that is, is their call to arms, their participation in the kassams and kidnapping, but then that makes them just like the other jihadnikim

[Spinoza]

18. Return the fucking

soldier.