Shalit can wait; it's lesson time first

[bemildred]

If there is no negotiating with "terror," why press Syria to press Khaled Meshal to press the kidnappers to give back Gilad Shalit? And if mediators are being sought from Russia, China, Turkey and Qatar, why say that one of the reasons for the invasion of Gaza rests on the desire to secure Shalit's release through force? These two questions have one answer: Hubris - the hubris of an army stung right under its nose by a street gang, which snatched "one of its own" and killed two soldiers.

This hubris does not allow the army or the government to make do with the diplomatic channels. Someone has to be made to pay big, to be taught a lesson such that they will never ever again think about grabbing a soldier. And if this doesn't help, at least they can be made to pay a heavy price in the name of neutralizing the Qassams, or because they voted Hamas.

True, a government cannot "remain indifferent" to displays of terror. But this does not have to stop one from thinking that perhaps the Israel Defense Forces really does not have the wherewithal to secure Shalit's release, and that to do so requires a wise government rather than a wild army - a government that can take a look at its surroundings and recognize that there is not a single country in the Middle East that does not live with a certain degree of torturous duality, a duality in which orderly governments, sometimes elected, live side-by-side with brutal terrorist organizations that want to bring them down.

---

Then the street gang that captured Shalit came along and explained to Israel what is "relevant." Hamas does not recognize Israel, cried the well-known chorus, so it is not a partner for dialogue. But look who is courting who and who is calling for protecting Shalit's life these days. Everyone's looking for someone to hold "responsible" - Hamas, Haniyeh, Meshal, Syria; but recognizing that apparently all of these potential responsible parties are truly less relevant has yet to be internalized. Because the field, especially in Gaza, is now controlled by 18 and 20-year-olds whose organizational affinity might be the result of wanting to be part of some respectable framework, but soon they won't even need that. They will be the next Hamas. Haniyeh was 25 years old when the first intifada, the nonviolent one, began; Abu Ubeida, the chief Qassam maker in Gaza, is 28 years old now. He is the new generation that is not impressed by tanks; nor are the people of the Islamic Army and the Nasser a Din Brigades. They are the ones who are compiling their national resumes now. They are waiting for the IDF in the alleys that they know so well to show not only Israel but also their own veteran, exhausted and blacklisted leadership - the old woman who can no longer crawl through tunnels, who is perceived as a collaborator and has forgotten what a national struggle is all about - that they have already started the next round of appointments.

Haaretz

[lyonn]

1. Bemildred, you are trying to make some sense of this

crazy world that doesn't make Any sense anymore. It appears to be a free for all, anythings goes if you are crazy enough to try it, kinda like bush's "gut intuition".

[bemildred]

5. The world makes perfect sense.

It is sort of a free-for-all, and it doesn't care a fig what happens to people, and it never explains itself; but it's self-consistent, which is more than you can say for people. And everything that happens to you is your own fault.

[DELUSIONAL]

2. let's see -- Hamas was supposed to replace the PLO

and in the very beginning was funded by Israel. http://www.prisonplanet.com/news_alert_hamas2.html

Now Hamas is the enemy . . . but the young men who have endured the endless, relentless warfare and occupation of Israel trying to eradicate Arafat (probably assassinated) and the PLO and the more radical Hamas . . .

and we have evolution.

Rather like the constant tribal warfare in Somalia -- what strikes me most are the hordes of young men as warriors. The women and children are the victims -- always the victims. The warrior males look well fed -- but the women and children are starving.

When the organized political group of adults is eliminated -- others will step in to fill the void. And that unknown may be much worse and lethal than the known. When an opposition is driven to small "cells" who cannot be controlled by the larger and well known political groups then it seems that politics has descended into chaos.

Apparently now the majority of Israelis support the assassination of Hamas leaders -- but some sort of leadership will step in to fill the void. And eventually we may see a time when Israel wishes that Arafat was back in control.

It would seem that the targeting of the leadership doesn't get to the root cause that created that sort of leadership in the first place. Total eradication of the Palestinian people from lands claimed by Israel is impossible.

This was basic system theory in a couple of my college classes -- one in Political Science and the other in a Sociology class (Social Disorganization). We'd have debates -- which is more important the "leader" or the people in the direction a movement (or government) takes.

[Behind the Aegis]

3. what a poor understanding of history. n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

4. I kind of suspect they wish Arafat was back in control now...

It's kind of ironic that after all these years of Israel trotting out the 'we have no partner in peace' line, now they're actually faced with hardliners who are going to be dragged kicking and screaming into any future negotiations. Now Israel can trot out that line and there's actually something to it...

[bemildred]

6. Yeah.

The Magistrate & I were talking elsewhere about the ludicrous irony of wishing for the steady hands of Sharon and Arafat at the helm.

The point, as I see it, and as I have said before, is that these policies have the effect of bringing into being the implacable enemy force that the Israeli government claims to fear, among other pernicious effects.

[DELUSIONAL]

7. Perhaps this is what the Israel hardliners wanted all along

now they can eradicate the Palestinians -- because the Palestinians are so unreasonable.

I don't see an end to this in our life times or ??? It will go on and on and on . . . into the next generations.

Unless the Israeli people elect leaders who really want peace . . .

What worries me is that Israel has nukes -- and given time and the wrong idiot in control at the wrong moment -- a "tactical" nuke might be deployed. . . .

Same worry I have with the US having nukes -- and right now we have the wrong guy (bush) who is more than willing to use his "toys" -- because he has never ever had to clean up his own messes.

The older I get -- the more I want to see nukes removed from human control. I don't believe that humans have the maturity and intelligence to control nukes (never use them).