Israel ambassador declaring war on Lebanon right now live on TV

[NNN0LHI]

MSNBC. That is all for now.

Don

[htuttle]

1. Oh. Hell.

There it is, then.

[RaleighNCDUer]

2. Let's see --

Lebanon is the base for Hezbollah, Hezbollah is supported by Iran.

Israel moves into S. Lebanon. Threats, counter-threats.

How soon do the bombs fall on the Iranian nuke sites?

[Terran1212]

29. How much do you want to bet a lot of this was set up?

Israel gets to take down its former rivals in Lebanon, wreck Gaza again, and maybe even Iran will get in on the fun!

[ChairmanAgnostic]

3. only one word fits for their current actions

bastards.

they deliberately increased the pressure and forced Gaza into a one sided war. They are doing the same with Lebanon

[cali]

self-delete

[ChairmanAgnostic]

7. no doubt. tit for tat, Tit for Tat, TIT FOR TAT, ever escalating.

and the local politics are extremely complex.

But, this entire wave of violence can easily be brought back to one incident. The Israeli gunboats murdering a family of sunbathers on a Gaza beach. From that point in time, every single step by Israel was a deliberate provocation and effort to push Hamas into war. It worked.

The same thing is happening with Lebanon. They are playing with fire in a way that shocks the most cynical ME observers. With US support, of course.

[bloom]

9. OR it might be nuke for stone.

Or at least boulder for pebble. Or something like that.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

22. a big TIT for a tiny tat, then.

this is horrible.

[MrPrax]

42. Right said...

Now we know what 'buzzing' the Syrian capital was all about...which of course had NOTHING to do with the kidnapping...but signalled Israel's 'new strategy' to destroy any chance of peace.

[cali]

4. It's a little more complicated than that.

In fact, it's a lot more complicated than that. Particularly the Lebanon part. In any case, I'd like a bit more information about this purported declaration of war.

[sabra]

5. Reuters: Israel calls Hizbollah capture of soldiers act of war

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L12674823.htm

Israel calls Hizbollah capture of soldiers act of war


QASMIYEH, Lebanon, July 12 (Reuters) - Hizbollah guerrillas captured two Israeli soldiers and killed up to seven Israelis on Wednesday, in what Israel described as an act of war by Lebanon that would draw a "very painful" response.

Israel mobilised a reserve infantry division and Hizbollah declared an all-out military alert.

[Recursion]

53. OK, there's a huge gap...

...between Israel calling that an act of war against them (which I would say it was), and Israel declaring that a state of war exists between Israel and Lebanon (which AFAIK they haven't yet).

[MidwestTransplant]

10. I don't think Israel is responsible for

Hezbollah coming accross the border and attacking Israeli soldiers and kidnapping them.

Of course they will cross into Lebanon to retrieve them.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MidwestTransplant]

38. They alwasy try to kill civilians just not this time.

If you don't like the facts, I can't help it. This was a totally unprovoked assault by Hezbollah. If I were an average Lebonese person I would be pissed.

[liberalhistorian]

62. And the family murdered on the beach

WASN'T an unprovoked assault? Or is it just that Arab and Palestinian lives are a dime a dozen and only Israeli lives matter?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

39. Don't the Israeli's have Lebanese prisoners?

If Israel can cross into Lebanon to retrieve it's prisoners, why can't Lebanon do likewise?

[question everything]

18. How about reading the news, first?

BEIRUT, Lebanon - Hezbollah militants crossed into Israel on Wednesday and captured two Israeli soldiers.

http://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/mideast_conflict

Israel is not a Christian nation; it does not believe in turning the other cheek. When attacked it responds.

[Behind the Aegis]

41. that would be inconvenient!

Tis better to just blame Israel, then actually look at everything that is going on in the area. After all, Israel is to blame for any attacks against her and her people. :sarcasm:

[Waya]

49. More times than not, unfortunately......

[Waya]

48. Odd then....

...that according to the map shown on the news (CNN around 5:00 am) the Israeli Soldier's were on Lebanese soil.....strangely tho, after that the map wasn't shown anymore and the story headline was that Israeli Soldiers had been kidnapped on the border....weird!!!

[Behind the Aegis]

52. First reports, breaking news is never wrong.

:sarcasm:

[Scurrilous]

55. I believe the attack on the IDF soldiers...

...took place in the Sheba Farms area. Hezbollah claims that Sheba Farms are occupied Lebanese territory. So some will claim it was a cross-border attack while others will say it occurred in Lebanese territory.


On edit:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/737789.html

"This is a heroic operation carried out against military targets and so it is a legitimate operation, especially as it took place in occupied Lebanese territory," Hamas political bureau member Mohammad Nazzal told Reuters."

[Igel]

60. So the provocation is working.

At least to the extent it's believed.

Somebody upstream said it was a set up. The poster was right, on the face of it. But I believe the intent was to imply either an Israeli or American attempt at a set up. That, it surely wasn't.

[pointblank]

6. And, so it begins

This is the beginning of the end for us all ladies and gentlemen unless some drastic, and I mean drastic changes are made. Get some popcorn and enjoy the show.

:popcorn:

[Mir]

8. Hezbollah whipped Israel's ass before

and they will whip it again if Olmert is stupid enough to invade.

[cali]

11. Cheering on Hezbollah?

Ugh.

[Mir]

16. No I'm not cheering Hezbollah

I'm simply stating a fact. Israel's invasion and 18 year long occupation had devastating results for them and if they do it again they're going to get another beating. That's all. I don't like or support the Hezbollah terrorists at all. In fact I think they're a completely contemptible lot funded and supported by a completely contemptible nation (Iran). Israel, however, is also contemptible with their disgraceful regional policies and perpetual war mongering. In my opinion these two entities deserve each other, but Israel is the one who stands to lose more here.

[Nimrod2005]

19. Yup, and Iraqi insurgents are doing the same to us in Iraq...

It is so damn difficult to capture territory and just sit there...Israel knows this already, but they will bomb the hell out of stuff in Lebanon.

[pelsar]

47. israel shouldnt be guarding its own border...

what were they doing there?....good thing hizballah crossed the border and stopped the israeli aggression!

[Clark2008]

23. We shouldn't be rooting for either side.

They both terrorize each other.

[Mir]

26. Exactly correct.

[Terran1212]

30. They have a right to defend their country

It's a basic human right no matter what you think of their politics.

[Behind the Aegis]

40. You're joking right?!

[WinkyDink]

17. You're joking, right?

Israel will destroy Hezbollah.

[Mir]

25. No they won't.

They had 18 years to destroy Hezbollah and they resolutely failed. If you're talking about who has the greater physical power, then there is no doubt that it rests with the Israelis, but then again there were the Soviets and the Afghans, the Americans and the Vietcong, the French and the Algerians, Russians and Chechens, Americans and Iraqi insurgents, and on and on and on. Israel can't even destroy little Hamas and Islamic Jihad in it's own back yard. How exactly do you think they are going to invade another country and "destroy" a group that is probably 20 times stronger than either of the prior, and which fought Israel to a bloody standstill for 18 years? Destory Hezbollah? Get real.

[Terran1212]

34. Hezbollah beat them once before

I don't see why they can't do it again when Israel is fighting on two fronts at least, and that's without the Lebanese army being mobilized.

[David__77]

31. Absolutely right.

Israel cannot defeat a war waged by a whole people. The PLO could never confront Israel because they had compromised themselves and gone in for cronyism and bureaucratism. Hezbollah commands the support of many and they will surely mobilize.

[Igel]

61. If the war is waged by an entire people,

then the entire people is the opposing army.

And there is no civilian population or civilian infrastructure.

Care to revise your beliefs, or merely nod assent in the case of collective punishment by the Israelis?

[Swamp Rat]

12. The so-called 'Domino Theory' in action.

[patcox2]

13. Just to be fair, how many arab states are in a state of declared war?

How many Arab states are in a state of declared war against Israel?

[NNN0LHI]

21. I don't know? But I will believe you if you tell me

:hi:

[Clark2008]

27. And also to be fair, what kind of weaponry does Israel have

in comparison to the archaic weaponry most of the Arab nations have?

[TomClash]

58. Let's start with 100 nukes nt

[YankeeFan]

65. Leaving Out Egypt and Jordan…

They have Peace Treaty's with Israel. (I think)

Everybody else.
If there is an Arab State that isn’t in a State of War with Israel, I don’t know who is.

Maybe Iraq and Kuwait are not. That’s it.

[peacetalksforall]

14. Israel politics are despicable.. They don't seek peace anymore

than Cheney and Rumsfeld.

Death seeking Hamas, Hezbollah, and Israel operatives working with and against the US and UK and Saudi Arabia, are bringing down our world.

[malaise]

15. Rummy is in the area

fueling the fire.

[question everything]

20. What do you call Israel withdrawal from Gaza last year?

It was a unilateral withdrawal as part of the peace process. How did Gaza respond? Bu shelling and attacking and tunneling into Israel.

They are not interested in peace. They have not for almost 60 years.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

24. a set up. nothing more.

they stopped the transfer of all palestinian moneys, they bombed civilians repeatedly, and despite what our MSM likes to report (a katusha or mortar every week or so,) the Israelis have been strafing, bombing, shelling Gaza EVERY SINGLE DAY. No wonder Hamas is so popular there. The Israelis are acting like thugs and killing innocents, at a rate 100-1000 times the deaths caused by Palestinians.

Your last sentence applies as equally to Israel. :They are not interested in peace. They have not for almost 60 years."

[cali]

28. One more time:

it's a little more complicated than that. I'm so sick of people who can't figure that out.

On the night that Israelis finished pulling out of Gaza, several qassams were fired, and that continued. The greenhouses purchased for the Palestinians by (gasp)an American Jewish philanthropist were trashed. Israel did indeed overreact. They bear, imo, more responsibility than the Gazans, but it's not one sided.

[Mir]

32. I agree that the situation is more complex than the surface shows

and I am not an Israel-basher. But do you not think that the Israelis continually take steps to inflame the extremist groups - mainly through assassinations - to keep tensions high and eliminate any semblence of a peaceful atmosphere in order to maintain an illegal military occupation? Do you not find it strange that every single time that there is a lull in violence or a truce announced that the Israelis always assassinate somebody and get the shit all stirred up again? Do you think that this is coincidental? Because I sense a pattern that underlies an unwritten and unspoken policy of maintaining tension, violence and occupation. I could be wrong of course, but that's how it seems to me.

[MrPrax]

45. A good take...

It's like Sharon walking out of the Geneva Round of the peace negotitations...regardless of what the Palestinians do or don't, it really doesn't matter to Israel anyway. The election of Hamas put them into a bit of a bind.

It's simply fodder for the various Supporters© to kick around. Once upon a time, the Supporters© made sense, but now, Israel is writing the script so fast they can bearly keep up...oh Israel didn't kill those kids on the beach, it was...Hamas and their Navy seals traps on the beach...and then, well if Israel did it, it was because of -um- Qassam rockets!...yeah that's the ticket.

Good grief...

[pelsar]

46. kassams = no violence?

a lull in the violence was when israel left gaza and was rewarded with kassams...is that the "lull' your taking about?....or perhaps the actual "order of things doesnt suit your vision, hence you seem to confusing them?

let me help:
israel leaves gaza
kassams..more kassams
infiltration attempts

israeli helicopter missles

more kassams

israeli artillary in open fields

more kassams, infiltration attempts

israeli artillary
etc
_______________

perhaps the palestenians shouldnt be shooting missles over the border?....is that the "lull" your referrring to?

[peacetalksforall]

50. If Israel would stop the tit for tat routine and find other ways to

negotiate, they would be thought of as having more honor.

I can't follow it all after all these decades, but I find that the first flare up comes from Israel most of the time. The tit for tat is all I have in my head.

Does the press not report it when Hamas or gangs start it - and make sure they report it when Israel starts it? I doubt it.

I'd like to know if someone is documenting all of this. In any case, my perception is that it is pure tit for tat with Israel always having all the advantages - some of which they restrain - such as their nuclear capabilities.

Just having nuclear capabilities and the power of the U.S. and U.K. behind them would set off a tit or tat the way I see it.

It is extremely disheartening that the stronger of the two goes down to a tit for tat level. There are plenty of brains there that could come up with something, but raw land obsessions get in the way?

I only speak from perceptions and disappointments.

Anyway, I agree with you Mer.

[pelsar]

54. dont you hate it when facts get in the way?...

israel left lebanon 6 years ago....and has attacks, katushas ever since from the hizballa....so which part is israels fault?

[eyl]

64. Often, they don't

Does the press not report it when Hamas or gangs start it - and make sure they report it when Israel starts it? I doubt it.

The problem is that the press (especially outside of Israel) usually only reports attacks on Israelis when someone dies, or serious damage occurs. But there are continous attempts which are not that sucessful (Israel actually manages to stop around 80-90% of attacks).

[Violet_Crumble]

57. What do the greenhouses have to do with it?

Qassams...yes. But the greenhouses were a matter for the Palestinians to deal with, and didnt' have anything to do with Israel or any reaction from Israel...

[Englander]

63. The 'Gazans'?

That's a curious use of language.
Question - Do you think that Gaza = OPT? I can't recall if you've offered an opinion on that matter,
I'd like to know if you think that the 'Disengagement' meant the end of the occupation by Israel, or
not?

[sabbat hunter]

44. kassaams

rocketed down daily on israel from the day they completely pulled out of gaza.

[MrPrax]

43. Keyword: Unilateral

Israel does everything unilateral and never discussed and virtually every 'response' lately has been because of unilateral actions taken by Israel...this 'rocket' schtick is a little tired...it's like the Jangaweed complaining they are being shot at in Darfur.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

35. Gee, I wonder which side the US will support.

Perhaps a "pre-emptive" strike on Israel's nuclear facilities to ensure that things don't get out of hand?

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LeftCoast]

37. Well that didn't work...

Please ignore this msg.

[JCMach1]

51. looks like Kadima is trying to out-Sharon, Sharon

:(

[Poll_Blind]

56. I think Kadima under Sharon would have been much different.

Olmert was also a senior member of Likud who came over with Sharon. But when Sharon went kaput, Olmert realized that he could turn Kadima into anything he wanted- even another Likud or, if Netanyahu's public pressure works (and it looks like it does) into something between Likud and Shas.

Which an all-day-sucker of fear in itself.

PB

[jseankil]

59. GodSpeed Israel! /nm

nm