"Setting Lebanon's Clock Back 20 Years"

[northernsoul]

Well, this certainly sounds ominous:
<snip>
Israel called Wednesday's abductions an act of war, and Maj. Gen. Udi Adam, head of Israel's Northern Command, said he has "comprehensive plans" to battle Hezbollah throughout Lebanon, not just in its southern stronghold.

"This affair is between Israel and the state of Lebanon," Adam said. "Where to attack? Once it is inside Lebanon, everything is legitimate -- not just southern Lebanon, not just the line of Hezbollah posts."

Earlier, Israel's chief of staff, Lt. Gen. Dan Halutz, told Israel's Channel 10, "If the soldiers are not returned, we will turn Lebanon's clock back 20 years."
</snip>

I don't see how Israel can wage a full-scale military campaign throughout Lebanon using bombers and artillery (apparently they've already started taking out bridges and power stations) and only confine their engagement to Hezbollah assets. It seems inevitable to me that such a campaign will end up engaging Lebanese and Syrian uniformed forces as well as other armed Lebanese militias.

If this thing doesn't get under control pronto, we're looking at a potential regional conflagation that is going to spin out of everybody's control. Hang on to your hats, folks!

[C_U_L8R]

1. It's time for the big squeeze play

US and Israel have divided... now they will try to conquer.

[AlamoDemoc]

2. The situation is already out of control....We are now seeing George's

plan for the Middle East come into view..... "The Coming Of Christ"

[cantstandbush]

3. Not just Lebanon, will set the world back more than 20 years.

But Israel doesn't give a damn. It's only concern is for its Zionist expansion agenda.

[cali]

5. Just exactly

what is the ominous sounding "Zionist expansion agenda"?

[cracksquirrel]

47. Oh that?

It's a lovely kitchen addition with refurbished guest waiting room. You should see the trimmings! Oh, and something about gentile children being brought in the back... Oh I don't know, I'll have to check the architectural proposal in the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion! That's where we keep all our Long Range Zionist Development Plan (LRZDP) information. Would you like a brochure?
(I really hope I don't have to post a *sarcasm* tag on this one, though there are people here with pretty thick skulls...)

[wellst0nev0ter]

4. The Last Israeli Invasion Into Lebanon CREATED Hezbollah

then they were trying to get those PLO superterrorists. I wonder what other terra group another incursion is gonna create.

[lonestarnot]

43. Well it created a mess out of the airport in Lebanon and

has apparently killed at least 24 civilians. That figure is probably low-balled.

[Lithos]

6. Link?

please provide a link in a follow up post as soon as you can.

Lithos
DU Moderator

[joshcryer]

7. Here's one:

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/13/mideast/

Here's a bunch on google news with this quote: http://news.google.com/news?client=opera&rls=en&q=we%20will%20turn%20Lebanon's%20clock%20back%2020%20years&sourceid=opera&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wn

[lonestarnot]

8. This is bad news indeed.

"We're skipping the stage of threats and going straight to action," said Peretz. "The goal is for this incident to end with Hezbollah so badly beaten that not a man in it does not regret having launched this incident."


"The IDF General Staff took a similarly hard line, with one senior officer declaring that Israel should send Lebanon's infrastructure "30 years backward" in response to the attack."



http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/737827.html

[dailykoff]

9. Straight from the pages of Thucydides.

Foreign policy made in the bronze age.

[lonestarnot]

10. Seems so wierd, sitting here posting while the world is falling

apart around us.

[LynzM]

12. It's very weird. I agree.

Wondering where this is going to go, wondering if this is time that we will look back on as "peacetime," etc. :hug:

[lonestarnot]

13. Very well could be.

[Pachamama]

36. Hey, your not giving are you?

:hi: Lonestarnot!

I thought the exact same thing...that there is chaos a-brewing and here I am typing on the keyboards. But honestly, it is actually at 4:30AM here while I can't sleep and the rest of the Pachafamily does, that I get comfort from posting my thoughts about this whole FUBAR situation in our world.

Namaste

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

30. Ubi solitudinum...

pacem appllent.

or so said Tacitus

[druidity33]

35. Tacitus...

Wasn't he around to journal the decimation of the Celts and extermination of the Druids? One of the only written records of Caesar's conquests during that era... excepting Caesar's writings himself. Either way, not a nice man, not into peace...

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

44. The quote is actually quite pro-peace

in english... They make a wilderness and then call it peace.

[jaysunb]

11. Frightening.....

:evilfrown:

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

14. How long has this been going on?

Thousands of years? An eye for an eye gets what? and all with the help of U S A taxpayers dollars. ENDLESS WAR FOR ENDLESS PROFITS

[lonestarnot]

15. Blindness.

An eye for an eye makes the world blind.

[rman]

38. since 1948

unless by "this" you mean war in general

[in_cog_ni_to]

48. Right. Tell that to Hezbollah and Hamas. n/t

[azurnoir]

16. A questions that could get me flamed for asking

Has Hezbollah publicly taken responsibility for the soldiers abduction? Has Israel released the names of the soldiers(might be too soon)? No I don't think Israel is lying, but there are other players in this who might

[shadowknows69]

19. I don't think Israel is lying.

I am cynical an whether or not it happened in Israeli territory or not. Make no mistake Bush would love Israel to start shit in the ME that he has to jump to the rescue and get their back. He doesn't really care about the Israeli people and he'll happily sacrifice them all in nukular fire if he needs to. just as long as he protects that murikan way of life.

[azurnoir]

21. Thank you thats what I was getting at

and I know tinfoil

[Pachamama]

37. Bush's Rapture ready neo-nuts would love to have the holy land for them!

As I read your post Shadowknows69, this was the exact thought that came to mind. Your absolutely right that Bush would love Israel to start shit in the ME and that he could jump to the rescue to "aid our longtime ally Israel" (as he has stated his intention there to defend them and fight terror). And if all of Israel and the Israelis' perished in nukular fire, he'd say its sad, but that "America" will help care for the holy land now.... :puke:

[farmbo]

39. "Rapture ready neo-nuts"...I love it...(but it scares the sh@! out of me)

eom

[Fleshdancer]

22. The more articles I read about this, the more confused I get....

Attempting to find an answer to your question, I read this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5175160.stm

Israeli PM Ehud Olmert said the soldiers' capture was an "act of war", but Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah insisted the two would only be returned via talks.

Mr Olmert said he held Beirut responsible, but Lebanese Prime Minister Fuad Siniora denied any knowledge of the Hezbollah operation and refused to take responsibility for the soldiers' capture.

So in conclusion, the answer appears to be maybe. :shrug:

To make matters worse, the article starts off by saying this:

The attack comes as 27 civilians were killed in overnight Israeli raids on southern Lebanon.

Militant group Hezbollah says it has fired rockets into northern Israel. One person has been reported killed.


We need to get Nanny 911 out there and put EVERYONE in the naughty chair. x(

[bemildred]

27. Hiz'bullah has taken responsibility.

I think you could say they are proud of it.

The dead soldiers names have not been released AKFAIK.

There seems to be people dying and being injured as we speak, both in Israel and Lebanon, but news is spotty.

[Henny Penny]

40. Well the news coverage sure is spotty!!!!!!!!!

27 civilians including 10 children killed in Southern Lebabon.

And at least 23 Palestinians killed on Wednesday, including 9 members of the same family.

Kidnapped soldiers returned = 0!!!!!

Yep great work Israel.

:sarcasm: :banghead: :grr: :nuke: :puke: :mad:

[Riverman]

17. I am Afraid That the non-Muslim World will need to confront

Militarily the Muslim factions who are hell bent on killing all infidels. See the Koran. All tru Muslims must per the Koran kill the non-believers. Israilis life with this and attempt to defend themselves. Of course they perpetuate the violence with their occupation of GAZA and the West Bank. But, these religious fundamentalists are the problems be they Muslim, Jewish, Christian or any other sect that holds to beliefs in their views and all who do not hodl those view are less human and therefore targeted for elimination. There will be no peace as long a religious zealots control governments and the weapons of the state.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

20. How about a United Nations World Religion Treaty

All world religions sit down and talk.

[Stardust]

26. In 1972, I heard a radio lecture about all wars being based in religion

I've kept that notion with me through all these years of peace and strife and I'll be damned if that guy wasn't right! The U.N. is the only organization that could bring all the players together in a neutral place (John Bolton would have to sit in the back with his mouth ducktaped.)

[bloom]

34. I remember a teacher saying

that whenever a country has a build up of arms/weapons, etc. that they are used eventually. Countries don't accumulate this stuff for nothing.


People can blame the little guys all they want - but who are the ones with the big militaries? That's how I think of it.

[wtmusic]

23. Oh crap

"Islam is against killing of a single soul without justice; it completely detests killing innocent people whether they be Muslims or otherwise. Quran has addressed this thus,
مَن قَتَلَ نَفْسًا بِغَيْرِ نَفْسٍ أَوْ فَسَادٍ فِي الأَرْضِ فَكَأَنَّمَا قَتَلَ النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا وَمَنْ أَحْيَاهَا فَكَأَنَّمَا أَحْيَا النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا
"… whoever slays a soul, unless it be for murder or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men; …" (Al-Maidah 5:32)"

Stop with the jingoistic bullshit rhetoric. Maybe the Muslim world should confront the non-Muslim world, which has proven far more adept at killing them off of late.

[lonestarnot]

24. Can't we just bring out the noncombative peace troops and declare

an end to all of this bullshit...kill kill kill Getting fucking ridiculous

[The Magistrate]

29. And The Meaning There, Sir

Would rather seem to turn on definitions of "Justice", "innocent", and "unless it be for murder or for mischief in the land", would you not agree?

Given a phrase like "...for mischief in the land..." to work with, particuarly before my coffee in the morning, it would be no great trick to justify slaying half the living creatures on the planet in perfectly good conscience. What you have quoted really means nothing at all, though it does have a nice sound about it.

[tkmorris]

31. The Bible contains similar language

It is all in the interpretation people choose to make of it. The poster you responded to is correct however in objecting to a characterization of the Koran as containing an unequivocal command to "kill all the infidels" as many anti-Muslim people would have you believe. It is nonsense.

[jaysunb]

32. Well said !

n/t

[The Magistrate]

33. Do You Imagine Me A Defender Of Christian Scripture, Sir?

The problem with all these things is that there are indeed people who put the most lethal interpretations on the texts their minds can contrive, and the apologists are just as innaccurate in their characterizations as the defamers. There are certainly people in arms today who view the Koran as commanding that the kaffirim be brought under the yoke, and citing dozens of passages from its text to prove their point.

"The world is full of human insects willing to acquaint you with the Will of God on any conceivable question."

[Riverman]

46. I did not make this up - read "End of Faith" by Sam Harris, he

documents with footnotes pages and pages of footnotes of references in the Koran on this subject!

Read his sections early in the book on the insidious role of moderares of all the major religions.

I would hope that people who believe in a loving God would reject any of their faiths call to killing the non-believers of their faith

[northernsoul]

45. Please provide support for your claims

Can you please cite the precise verse of the Q'uran that requires muslims to kill all non-muslims? You have made a very serious charge, please have some substantial support for it. Using some kind of spell-checker wouldn't do you any harm either.

[ContraBass Black]

18. WTF?

How can this sound like a good idea to the country that occupies Gaza and the West Bank?

[killbotfactory]

25. This is nuts

Nobody wants peace, apparently, except the poor people stuck in the crossfire.

And this "collective punishment"? Isn't that the same rationale that Bin Laden uses to justify attacks like 9/11?

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

28. And Bush is out to lunch ... again

He vacationed in the month leading up th 9/11, ignored the PDB about Bin Laden, and had his 'My Pet Goat' moment.

He ate cake and strummed a guitar while Americans died in New Orleans.

Where is the tireless leadership he promised on the Roadmap? Why is he sitting on the sidelines? Where is the statesmanship that a great U.S. President would show to try to de-escalate this situation?

I guess it's true that things come in threes.

[The Backlash Cometh]

41. This is how the neo-cons and right-wingers respond to everything.

Don't stop until you've destroyed every man, woman and child.

I can't believe that they've gotten this far using religion as a shield.

[izzybeans]

42. That's ironic

Peretz sounds like Osama.