Perez just now "They've forced us to use force."

[Skidmore]

Didn't take much, did it?

[acmavm]

1. Never does.

[question everything]

2. If Mexico bombed Houston, and Rumsfeld said that

would you have a similar reaction?

[Skidmore]

3. Yup.

Sometimes you need to go a little deeper that the slap and address the root cause. This has not been occurring.

[BillZBubb]

4. Nice red herring. Did any country bomb Israel?

Of course not. Some outlaw groups fired a few pathetic rockets into Israel. If some Mexican banditos fired some rockets near Laredo, would we bomb the power facilities in Vera Cruz????

For a guy with "question everything" for a name you sure do take things right off the propaganda platter.

[beckstcw]

6. What if

Mexico kidnapped a US soldier?

[Rosemary2205]

8. LEBANON didn't kidnap anyone

the Lebanese equivelent of the KKK kidnapped someone.

[Terran1212]

11. We give amnesty to many foreign terrorists who live in the US

I wonder if that gives Haiti or Cuba or Nigeria or other countries that want to extradite criminals from here the ability to bomb us back to oblivion.

[cali]

18. Arrggh.

This will be about the twentieth time I've felt compelled to correct this assumption. H'zbollah is not the equivalent of the KKK- or even close. It has 23 of the seats in parliament and controls several ministries. It isn't THE gov't but it is part of it. In addition, the Lebanese army doesn't control the southern border- H'zbollah does. It's irresponsible to make assertions that you simply plucked out of the atmosphere. All this information is easily found.

[hoboken123]

32. Doubt facts are wanted here

This moronic comparison to the KKK is one of the weakest things I've seen on this site.

[MyNameGoesHere]

13. What if grasshoppers had machine guns?

I guess birds wouldn't fuck with them. But that ain't reality is it?

[mikeytherat]

14. Soldiers are "captured" NOT "kidnapped"

Maybe it doesn't seem like a distinction, but it is. And Lebanon did NOT capture them - some dipshits, who were residing in Lebanon, did. Finally, if some Mexican "bad guys" did bomb Texas, I would not be surprised, in the least, to hear Donny Rumsfeld suggest we wipe Mexico off the map.

mikey_the_rat

[Behind the Aegis]

21. Soldiers are "captured" in a state of war....

...they are "kidnapped" when there is no state of war.

I guess Israel should do nothing because there is no "country" to deal with? The simple fact is the Lebanese government should be working WITH Israel to clamp down on Hizb'allah, and send them packing!

[mikeytherat]

26. So, the options are:

1. Israel does nothing
2. Israel bombs Lebanon

Seems to me there are a lot of other options, but I guess the situation is black and white, yes? And thanks, by the way, for suggesting that I think Israel should do nothing about the situation. May I conclude your solution will always be, "Bombs away!"? By the way: Your question: "Should the Lebanese government be working to reign in and eliminate Hizb'allah?" My answer: "Absolutely."

mikey_the_rat

[Behind the Aegis]

27. Simplistic

There are other options. But what I have found here, is that any military response from Israel would have been disproportionate. The Israeli attack could have been more precise and accurate. Seems we agree on one point...the Lebanese government needs to involve themselves.

[MyNameGoesHere]

17. If they did

we would obviously attack Italy. Same as our admins failed Iraq policy.

[question everything]

33. In contrast to you, I do question everything before I post

Hezbollah participated in the Lebanese elections and is part of the Lebanese coalition government - holding two offices.

Thus attacks by Hezbollah is an attack from Lebanon.

[gratuitous]

5. Yes, even if someone, say, took down the twin towers in NYC

Because ratcheting up the violence is a poor choice when confronted with a violent crime. It tends to engender more violence. (Cf., the disastrous consequences of the last five years.)

Nobody can "force" anyone else to use force; that's a choice that each of us, whether nation, tribe, group, or individual, makes. Blaming someone else for your own use of force seems childish to me. I would find such an excuse as justification for violence inadequate from my grandson; I find it even more inadequate coming from leaders of nations.

But it is part and parcel of our world's blind faith in the power of violence to redeem any situation, discounting any evidence to the contrary.

[rucky]

9. "But they started it"

holds no water.

[Terran1212]

10. If a Mexican gang shot 2 border patrol guards and took one hostage

And in response the USAF bombed mexico city, including airports and civilian apartment buildings and killed 100 people

^THAT'S a much better analogy

[cali]

It's a terrible analogy

One more time: H'zbollah is an influential part of the gov't in Lebanon.

[cali]

19. It's a terrible analogy

One more time: H'zbollah is an influential part of the gov't in Lebanon.

[Terran1212]

20. It makes no difference to the point

But remind me how this gives Israel the right to basically siege the entire nation.

After all, we have Cuban, Nicaraguan, Haitian terrorists living in NYC. They did their gruesome deeds and fled to our nation, and our CIA protected them.

Do Cubans have the right to burn down our Congress and besiege our cities because of it?

By your logic not only do they have the right, but they should because "they have the right to defend themselves"

[cali]

23. Of course facts matter

and stating that H'zbollah is just an outlaw gang is factually wrong. I never said Israel was right or had the right to mount an incursion into Lebanon. I'm sure you realize that. I'm staunchly against the Israeli attack against Lebanon, whether they have the right under International Law or not. It sacrifices civilians, further destabilizes the region and seems like a ridiculous way to go about getting their soldiers back. Good job putting words in my mouth.

[SoCalDem]

7. "Mom... He's LOOKIN' AT ME".."Mom, He's pokin' me"

"Mom, He's gonna hit me"..

I've heard it all before...as any Mom has :grr:

a bunch of mid-life crisised, impotent old farts just itching to start some shit that young people will have to die for while trying to follow their orders..

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

12. "She made me break her jaw." Same logic.

"My kid made me give him the belt."

"She was teasin' me with that short skirt, so I had to rape her."

etc, etc, etc.

There is always "justification" for violence. Just visit the local prison and ask the murderers, rapists, and child molesters.

[Behind the Aegis]

22. That the same logic at all.

A better example is a midget walking up to a 6', 250lbs man and punching him in the nuts, then complaining when the tall man punches him in the face!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

24. So, you agree with Perez?

Unfortunately, the Lebanese/Palestinian "midgets" are being murdered by the big guy. Just as our "big guy" is doing in Iraq.

[Behind the Aegis]

25. I agree with Perez!

However, it should be more "surgical." As another poster said, a scalpel, not a broadsword, is needed.

[in_cog_ni_to]

29. Perhaps the "midgets" shouldn't have attacked Israel and kidnapped the

soldiers? Nah....it's Israel's fault.:eyes:

Excuses, excuses, excuses for Hezbollah, Lebanon and Hamas. It just never ends here.

[AnOhioan]

30. Those who would excuse Israel for everything....

are also very numerous here at DU.

[in_cog_ni_to]

31. That's not ME. I detested Sharon. I thought he was bad for Israel, but

I NEVER hear the pro-poor Palestinian/Hezbollah/Hamas/Al Aqsa Brigade people EVER admit to their wrongdoings. EVER.

I've also voiced my dislike of Sharon on this board, unlike the Israel haters who can never admit when the ME terrorists are wrong.

[spanone]

15. By 'they', does he mean Bush* & Cheney???

:sarcasm:

[bemildred]

16. Yup, he is just a helpless puppet.

:puke:

[in_cog_ni_to]

28. nah...not much. Just continuous war ever since they've existed.

Let's see who the agressors are here:

The 1948 Arab-Israeli War is referred to as the "War of Independence" (Hebrew: מלחמת העצמאות or as the "War of Liberation" (Hebrew: מלחמת השחרור by Israelis. For Palestinians, the war marked the beginning of the events referred to as "The Catastrophe" ("al Nakba," Arabic: النكبة . After the United Nations partitioned the territory of the British Mandate of Palestine into two states, Jewish and Arab, the Arabs refused to accept it and the armies of Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Lebanon and Iraq, supported by others, attacked the newly established State of Israel. It was the first in a series of open wars in the Arab-Israeli conflict. As a result, the region was divided between Israel, Egypt and Transjordan.




The Six-Day War (Hebrew: מלחמת ששת הימים transliteration: Milkhemet Sheshet HaYamim, Arabic: حرب الأيام الستة transliteration: ħarb al-ayam as-sita), also known as the 1967 Arab-Israeli War, Six Days War, or June War, was fought between Israel and the nearby Arab states of Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, and Syria. Egyptian aggression initiated the war as Egypt formed a blockade of Israeli shipping in the Straits of Tiran, removed the UNEF peacekeeping forces from the Sinai, and deployed a large military force in the Sinai on the Israeli border. <1> <2> <3> Responding in an act of defense, Israel launched a preemptive attack against Egypt. <4> <5> <6> <7> Jordan in turn attacked the Israeli cities of Jerusalem and Netanya. <8> <9> At the war's end, Israel had gained control of the Gaza Strip, the Sinai Peninsula, the West Bank, and the Golan Heights. The results of the war affect the geopolitics of the region to this day.



War of Attrition
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from 1970 War of Attrition)
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This is about the Israeli-Egyptian War of Attrition. For the military strategy, see Attrition warfare, for the game theoretical model see War of attrition (game).
Arab-Israeli conflict
1920 riots · Jaffa riots · 1929 riots · 1936-1939 uprising · 1948 Arab-Israeli War · 1956 Suez Crisis · 1967 Six-Day War · War of Attrition · 1973 Yom Kippur War · 1982 Lebanon War · First Intifada · al-Aqsa Intifada · 2006 Arab-Israeli War
The War of Attrition was a limited war fought between Egypt and Israel from 1968 to 1970. It was initiated by Egypt as a way to recapture the Sinai from Israel, which had controlled it since the Six-Day War. The war ended with a cease-fire signed between the countries in 1970 with frontiers at the same place as when the war started.




The Yom Kippur War, Ramadan War or October War (Hebrew: מלחמת יום הכיפורים; transliterated: Milkhemet Yom HaKipurim or מלחמת יום כיפור, Milkhemet Yom Kipur; Arabic: حرب أكتوبر‎; transliterated: ħarb October or حرب تشرين, ħarb Tishrin), also known as the 1973 Arab-Israeli War, was fought from October 6 to October 26, 1973, between Israel and a coalition of Arab nations led by Egypt and Syria. The war began on the day of Yom Kippur with a surprise joint attack by Egypt and Syria. They invaded the Sinai and Golan Heights, respectively, which had been captured by Israel in 1967 during the Six-Day War.<2>

The Egyptians and Syrians advanced during the first 24–48 hours, after which momentum began to swing in Israel's favor. By the second week of the war, the Syrians had been pushed entirely out of the Golan Heights. In the Sinai to the south, the Israelis had struck at the "seam" between two invading Egyptian armies, crossed the Suez Canal (where the old ceasefire line had been), and cut off an entire Egyptian army just as a United Nations cease-fire came into effect.

The war had far-reaching implications for many nations. The Arab world, which had been humiliated by the lopsided defeat of the Egyptian-Syrian-Jordanian alliance during the Six-Day War, felt psychologically vindicated by its string of victories early in the conflict. This vindication paved the way for the peace process that followed, as well as liberalizations such as Egypt's infitah policy. The Camp David Accords, which came soon after, led to normalized relations between Egypt and Israel—the first time any Arab country had recognized the Israeli state. Egypt, which had already been drifting away from the Soviet Union, then left the Soviet sphere of influence almost entirely.


as well as a number of lesser conflicts. A major theme in the history of the conflict has been the refusal of Arab nations to create a Palestinian state that would not involve the destruction of Israel. In the course of the conflict, many Arabs were displaced from what is now Israel, and many Jews were displaced from what is now Algeria, Bahrain, Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, the Palestinian Territories, Syria, Tunisia, and Yemen (see Palestinian refugees and Jewish exodus from Arab lands). The conflict has also been the source of two major Palestinian intifadas (uprisings). Al-Qaeda, a largely Arab organization, has cited the conflict among its justifications for attacks on targets in the West.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab-Israeli_conflict

Wow. Israel has been outrageously agressive, haven't they?