Will any politicians (D or R) take a stand against Israel's aggression???

[liberaliraqvet26]

I doubt it, but i notice that many CSPAN callers have been critical of this escalation. A few criminals kidnap a soldier and they terrorize a whole country, threaten to destabilize it's weak government and give big oil another excuse to gauge us. Thanks Israel.

A great read....
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/mear01_.html

I know by the end of this post i'll be branded an anti-semite. I know that many (especially liberal democrats) have to be critical of 1000 eyes for an eye and should take a principled stand. Fuck AIPAC and their neocon cohorts.

[Jim Sagle]

It's not aggression when the other side strikes first.

But hey, you knew that.

Consult your local dictionary.

[Ripley]

4. Who struck who first?

You mean the kidnapping of two guys (doing what)? Yeah, that equals total infrastructure devastation and economic crippling and innocent civilian murdering. :eyes:

[question everything]

22. No, continuing shelling of Israel from both Gaza and from Lebanon

Just because the media did not report it, it has been taking place.

How would other countries react if their lands were being shelled constantly from across the border?

[TomClash]

25. How would you react if your country was under occupation? nt

[stray cat]

41. Hesballah and Syria are occupying Lebanon

- that part has nothing to do with palestine

[alvarezadams]

Uh...

Syria pulled out in 2005 as per UN Resolution 1559.

[maalak]

76. you mean the one that was also supposed to disarm Hezbollah?

right...

[TomClash]

50. Syria left Lebanon after Hariri was killed

I don't care much for Hezbollah, but this has nothing to do with Israel's concern for the Lebanese Government.

And Israel does occupy the West Bank and Gaza.

[Waya]

70. Hezbollah are not occupiers of Lebanon -

...they're Lebanese citizens and a Lebanese militia group. And Syria hasn't occupied Lebanon for years..............

[sabbat hunter]

71. illegal milita group

hizbollah is an ILLEGAL militia/terror organization. they were supposed to have been disarmed years ago, but the lebanese army lacks the strength/will do to so.

[msmcghee]

72. Either has Israel. nt

[question everything]

63. Neither Lebanon nor Gaza is occupied by Israel

is it too much, really, to expect DUers to check their facts, first?

[alvarezadams]

26. Depends

If it is a NATION attacking you, you defend yourself militarily once every peaceful resort has been unsuccessfully tried. It's part of the UN Charter, don't you know. And military actions must be PROPORTIONATE to be legal.

One side - 2 kidnapped soldiers. The other side - vitims of extrajudicial murder. Yet another side - not a party in the conflict yet suffering civilian casualties.

[question everything]

65. Hezbollah is a member of the Lebanese coalition

If a Mexican party will bomb Houston, do you think that this country will not retaliate?

Israel is not a Christian country; it does not turn the other cheek. Those shelling have been going for months. What should Israel have done: please, please, don't shell me?

No. One side - continuous shelling for months, using, as we have seen now, long range missiles that can go to the heart of Israel. Imagine a Mexican party shelling Houston but with capability to shell Chicago.

The other side is a party. Hezbollah is part of the government and if Lebanon will not control it - the way the Iraqi government cannot (now) control its "insurgents" then perhaps it needs a persuasive message.

[Ripley]

32. Oh for fuck's sake.

The media has refused to show Jerusalem's infrastructure dessimated? You mean the terrorists have been taking out airports and bridges and closed Israel's economy for MONTHS and no one noticed?

Wake up.

[alvarezadams]

34. Oh, I'm wide awake

and I've spent considerable time in Israel, FWIW.

I'd wager that the IDF's destruction over the past few days is far worse than all the damage caused by the Palestinians since 1947 - as far as infrastructure is concerned.

And the US comes and pays for the damage done to Israel anyways...

[Ripley]

38. I was not speaking to you.

:eyes:

[alvarezadams]

40. ???

Perhaps you're confusing a political messageboard with IM?

[reichstag911]

45. Perhaps you haven't figured out...

...that Ripley's "Wake up" comment was directed at Question_everything's post at #22.

[alvarezadams]

47. Sorry

I didn't know it was a private conversation.

[reichstag911]

49. If you're going to be sarcastic,...

...it's usually helpful to have been correct in the first place. Of course it's not private, but it was a reply in direct reponse to what another poster had said, and you took it as directed at you.

[alvarezadams]

52. Sheesh

Let's just say that you responded within a thread on a public board and I saw fit to respond.

It wasn't directed towards me? So what?

[liberaliraqvet26]

36. oh my god...

a few single individuals with small arms weapons "decimated" the economy of Israel??? are you kidding??

at least they still had their US taxpayer supported subsidies.

[TomClash]

28. Believe it or not, let's see how right you are!

On June 8, the Israeli army assassinated the recently appointed Palestinian head of the security forces of the Interior Ministry, Jamal Abu Samhadana, and three others. On June 9, Israeli shells killed seven members of the same family picnicking on Beit Lahiya beach. Some 32 others were wounded, including 13 children.

On June 13, an Israeli plane fired a missile into a busy Gaza City street, killing 11 people, including two children and two medics. On June 20, the Israeli army killed three Palestinian children and injured 15 others in Gaza with a missile attack. On June 21, the Israelis killed a 35-year old pregnant woman, her brother, and injured 11 others, including 6 children. Then came the Israeli capture of two Palestinians on June 24, followed by the Palestinian capture of the Israeli soldier and the killing of the two other soldiers on June 25.

[iamjoy]

5. Disproportionate Response

but not aggression.

Disproportionate in that they are attacking civilians rather than sending special ops after Hezbollah. There were definitely better ways they could have handled the retaliation - not just more compassionate, but more effective (IMHO).

But to answer the o.p. - I doubt you will see strong criticism of Israel in an election year. Maybe a few mavericks who don't have a large Jewish constituency, or a few very idealists who speak their mind and don't think in terms of voting groups.

[alvarezadams]

13. Right

The Palestinians were struck first back in the times of Balfour if not earlier.

As for the Lebanese - they haven't struck at all.

Israel is currently committing war crimes - above all the worst of them, crimes against the peace.

[Jim Sagle]

16. BS - there was no peace.

And back in the Balfour day, there were no Palestinians either.

[alvarezadams]

18. So...

the "people" that "lived" in "Palestine" just didn't exist? It was just some empty patch of ground begging to be peopled by foreigners?

Face it - the invasion/immigration to Palestine is what caused the trouble.

[Jim Sagle]

19. Yeah, if only those joooooos didn't exist.

Where the fuck were they SUPPOSED to go?

[alvarezadams]

23. They didn't have to go anywhere

Yet... yet... they weren't wanted in the UK or the US. Go figure.

For a while the Zionists looked to Madagascar.

Look - I'm an antinationalist. I also believe in self-determination. Israel was created without any input from the "natives" and under the aegis of a colonizing power. It was created with terrorist tactics, I might add.

There's no easy solution. Israel is indeed a fait accompli and thus has created itself a right to exist. This right does not include the right to illegally colonize occupied territory, to overlook basic human rights, to build up another damned Berlin Wall forchrissakes. And it certainly doesn't give it a right to blockade the capital of a neighboring nation and kill its citizens.

[jwirr]

37. My father always said that if we had really cared about the Jews

after WWII we would have given them asylum in the US rather than set them down in the middle of their traditional enemies. We did not help them.

As to what they should do now - I do not know - but I also hope they realize that their actions could easily lead to WWIII with *ss in office over here. They are not in a good position for a war in the ME. It will be all too easy to hit them when they cannot get at the US.

[alvarezadams]

48. Where the trouble started

The Balfour Declaration of 1917.

Arthur Koestler's summary: "one nation solemnly promised to a second nation the country of a third.".

Ooops.

[msmcghee]

75. Arthur Koestler's not rational.

He should have said,

"One nation solemnly promised to a group of people displaced from their ancestral lands - the nation's political support in resettling some small part of those lands - that were currently not part of any existing state and had been occupied by various conquerors over the centuries since the Jews had been expelled."

That would be more accurate.

[msmcghee]

73. They wanted to settle in the lands . .

.. that they came from and were kicked out of by the Romans. The land was not a state and was populated by several tribal groups, including Jews descended from those who had remained since Roman times.

Every state the diaspora Jews had settled in over the centuries treated them as lepers and persecuted them. They wanted and demanded their own state. This is where the world decided they should settle - the League of Nations and UN.

They are not leaving. Before Israel is seriously damaged - Beirut, Damascus, Tehran and many other Arab cities and Palestinian refugee camps will be leveled and millions of innocent Arab civilians will be dead. The sooner Israel degrades Hizbullah's military capability - the better chance those millions of Arab civilians have to live long peaceful lives.

The answer to peace is the same as it has always been - don't attack your neighbors. If you have a disagreement use negotiation and international forums to air your differences - not violence.

Those here, who seem to enjoy so much describing how Israel's "ass has been kicked" by Hizbullah - and who justify the missiles fired into Israel from Gaza and S. Lebanon - are actually cheering for many millions more dead Arab civilians than occurred this time around. Throughout history these are the people who cause war - those who are so certain that their grievances are worthy of military solutions rather than negotiations.

Unfortunately, the emotions of war have always been so much stronger in the human psyche - than the cold logic of peace.

[maalak]

77. that's absurd...

a) it wasn't the US that "set them down in the middle" of anything... Jews have lived in that area consistently for generations and the movement to establish a Jewish homeland far predates WW2... all WW2 did was emphasize the need for one.

b) Jews have seen what happens throughout history whenever anybody tries to "relocate" them anywhere under the guise of being "for their own good"... it's not just the Holocaust, look throughout history and see if you can understand why the Jewish people built a nation of their own.

[TomClash]

24. Yet another lie

There were over 600,000 people in Mandatory Palestine in 1917 and only about 55,000 were jews. Almost all of the remainder were Palestinian.

[alvarezadams]

27. Shhhh

Don't let any truth get in the way of pro-Zionist nationalism!

[Jim Sagle]

29. Don't you call me a liar, you goddamn liar.

Whatever figures you can cite, there were no PALESTINIANS then. They were there, but not under that name.

[alvarezadams]

33. Well HELL

The inhabitants of Palestine weren't known as "Palestinians". Maybe they were called Shirley?

And WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE?

[TomClash]

35. And there were no Israelis either

But there were many more Arabs than jews living in Palestine. An arab living in Palestine is a Palestinian. It is really not that clever to use semantics to attempt to discredit an entire people.

[chimpymustgo]

39. Your logic is Bush-like. This is shameful - inexcusable war crimes.

How can you possibly support this, and offer these ridiculous excuses?

[Jim Sagle]

42. I guess you'd like to run pro-Israel Dems out of the party, huh?

Be careful what you wish for.

[liberaliraqvet26]

43. No, we want them to be even handed and put the US first.....

Blind support of the actions of the government of Israel (without taking into account the interests of their own country) is not the way to tackle world problems. Then attacking everyone who questions Israel as "anti- semetic" styfles legitimate debate and undermines American democracy.

[boolean]

55. HAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!!

That's fucking hilarious.

[msmcghee]

74. There was no such thing as Palestine . . .

. . prior to the British mandate that was authorized by the League of Nations to pave the way for a Jewish homeland. When Britain created the territory of Palestine it was simply a designation on the map for land that was not part of any state - but was controlled as part of that mandate. It was land occupied by various tribal groups including Bedouins, urban Arabs, Jews of course and other groups. These people were citizens of no state.

Even then, no Arab nation recognised the territory of Palestine as a state. In fact, they were strongly opposed to the idea and many still see "Palestinians" as lesser people who should not have a state of their own. They serve a much better purpose for them as political tokens that allow them to each try to gain political advantage over other Arab states by posing as supporters of some sort of Islamic-Arab super-culture. It seems Iran is now poised to take that mantle - thanks to Bush's destruction of Iraq as a potential counter to Iran's hopes.

Try to understand the true history of the region a little bit before you start with the simplistic slogans.

[papau]

20. I agree-I also thought OP's choice of words incorrect-but Disproportionate

response does appear to be a reasonable description - granted it could be more disproportionate simply by a more evil Israeli choice of targets - say rather than an easily fixed runway say hit the huge new investment in the control tower and new terminal.

But it does, IMO, seem disproportionate even at this level.

[Jim Sagle]

21. It certainly does.

I have no solutions.

[alvarezadams]

31. Remember how...

...the latest Intifada started? With Ariel "Deathsquad" Sharon visiting the Mosques with conveniently present press and after spouting that he was about to do something inflammatory?

I remember how, because of stones thrown at tanks, the EU-funded Gaza airport was destroyed by Israeli tractors.

The Israeli rw has direct ties with the PNAC crowd. They have purposefully fomented the current situation by actively seeking conflict... only to smash the opposition disproportionately at the first opportunity.

Utter madness.

[liberaliraqvet26]

53. Now they hit ports in the Christain north of Lebanon....

hardly a Hezbollah stronghold. They have no care in the world about the people (including Americans and other foreigners) who are trying to flee. They are like a goddamn child having a temper tantrum.

[alvarezadams]

54. Maybe it'll take another...

...USS Liberty to change things: http://home.cfl.rr.com/gidusko/liberty/

[JackNewtown]

67. What is the rationale behind that?

I find it hard to believe Israel would bomb a city that has nothing to do with its stated objectives of pressuring Hezbollah and the Lebanese government. Surely there must be some sort of military or political value in attacking those ports.

[TheFarseer]

1. What shoud they do instead? n/t

[alvarezadams]

12. Stop being con-minded idiots

Repressive actions or reactions only bring on increased problems. Violence breeds violence.

Start off by getting off the moral high-horse and negotiate in good faith for THE FIRST TIME. Give the Palestinians their due.

Once they have a state they'll be subject to the rules and conditions of nations. IOW, instead of fighting insurgents, guerrillas and terrorists any post-independence Palestinian excesses could be effectively countered. Right now they have nothing to lose - when they have something to lose they'll think thrice before committing excesses.

[The Magistrate]

58. As A Matter Of Curiousity, Mr. Alvarez

When does this "violence begets violence" line apply to the actions of bodies hostile to Israel?

Why is the statement "violence begets violence" not applied, in this instance, to Hezbollah?

Does not their violence against northern Israel, after the Israeli retirement from Lebanon, not beget Israeli violence?

[alvarezadams]

60. When?

I, for one, hold purportedly democratic nations to a higher moral standard. An this POV has a legal standing in international law.

Terrorists are criminals. Countries SHOULD be law-abiding. A democratic country has no business in playing the "eye-for-an-eye" game or indeed lowering themselves to the level of criminal terrorists.

Does this put an onus on the side of law-abiding nations? Certainly. Similar to the onus put on the side of policemen in THEIR neverending war on crime. It is their obligation to fight with one hand tied behind their back - for the safety of our freedoms and in order to maintain the rule of law.

Anyways, how can Israel now complain about their civilian casualties as they kill entirely innocent third parties in a sovereign nation?

Finally, you misunderstand my point. The "violence begets violence" remark has more to do with expedience than morality.

[The Magistrate]

62. My Practice, Sir

Is to hold no one to a higher moral standard than anyone else, myself included, and further to pitch that standard pretty low....

"People act in self-interest and justify acts by moral principle."

[msmcghee]

81. "People act in self-interest and justify acts by moral principle."

I find myself returning to that statement and thinking about it. I believe it captures an essential truth of human nature.

I have one that is along the same lines.

People believe what feels good to them - and use their brains to justify it.

One could ask then, what place is there for reason and intellect in human beliefs. I'd say that only to the extent that reason and intellect feel good to someone - or more specifically, only to the extent that reason and intellect feel better than the emotions of one's ideological beliefs on a topic - will reason and intellect be allowed to weigh in.

Added on edit: In no way am I saying that doesn't apply to me as much as anyone else.

Keep on truckin'

[pelsar]

64. holding "different moral standards is simply racism

I, for one, hold purportedly democratic nations to a higher moral standard.

and why is that?...cant the hizballa or hamas respect human rights (is this an arab thing? skin color? genetics? culture?).....are they somehow "lesser human beings"...cant understand basic human rights?....so they HAVE to target civilians because they dont know any better? (hundreds of katushays launched at israeli cities with the intention of killing people)

and finally if they have a state, then all of a sudden they understand the "higher level of morality?...sounds like your basic racism to me.

[breakaleg]

80. racism? come on. you've got to be kidding...

so it's possible to be racist against a country now?

[eprn1n2]

2. Peace through Victory

Go Isreal.

[liberal N proud]

6. Why must the US Support Israel?

I have never understood why we follow and protect Israel at all cost the US and then people just blindly follow along.

Israel is a tyrant nation and should not be supported in their acts of aggression.

[liberaliraqvet26]

10. I cant find one reason that benefits our interest....

in that little desert parasite

[alvarezadams]

15. Proportionality

"...Israel is the single largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid nearly one-third of the total direct bi-lateral aid. If we exclude Egypt whose disproportionate share of aid came as a result of agreements made with Israel at Camp David, and Columbia, which receives enormous aid to prosecute a brutal military campaign allegedly aimed at drug trafficking, Israel receives more than all of Latin America, the Caribbean, and Africa combined. That is, one of the richest countries in the world, a country of around 6 million people, receives more aid than two entire continents including some of the poorest regions in the world. This aid amounts to around $500 per year for every Israeli citizen and more if we exclude the Palestinian citizens of Israel who receive few if any benefits from the money (none of this aid goes directly to Palestinians living in the occupied territories). To take one other comparison, the US has put forward less than $300 million to fight AIDS in Africa. So roughly 10 times more money goes to Israel than goes to fight the greatest plague the earth has seen since the middle ages.



Other aid to Israel is harder to calculate. Much is buried in DoD (Department of Defense) budgets and some costs such as lost interest from early disbursement, forgiven loans, etc. is difficult to calculate. Nonetheless, many estimates put total aid at near $5.5 billion. One should not be confident of any particular number here, but there are clear categories of aid not included in the foreign aid budget: research and development support for weapons systems, joint military training, loan guarantees, loans that are later forgiven, gifts of military hardware, access to US military intelligence, special grants for refugee resettlement, and early disbursement of funds.

This last category is not widely known. There are at least two ways in which Israeli aid is different from that of any other country. First, it is transferred to Israel in one lump sum at the beginning of each fiscal year. Other countries’ aid is disbursed throughout the year. This, of course, costs the US interest on the money. Second, Israel needn’t account for specific purchases. Most countries receive aid for very specific purposes and must account for how it is spent. Israel is allowed to place US aid into its general fund, effectively eliminating any distinctions between types of aid.



US loans to Israel are also a source of much confusion. Israel owes the U.S. government almost $3 billion in economic and military loans. It is often stated by Israeli officials that Israel has never defaulted on a loan from the United States. This is true, but only because loans are waived before default can occur. From FY 1994 through FY 1998, Israel received $29 billion in waived loans. Currently, the total U.S. contingent liability for Israeli loans the amount the US will owe if outstanding loans are not repaid is about $10 billion.



Finally, it is worth noting how this aid is spent. After the Intifada began last fall, Israel requested additional shipments of Black Hawk and Apache helicopters. These weapons have been used to fire missiles into civilian neighborhoods and to assassinate Palestinians throughout the Intifada. In June 2001 Israel requested 50 additional F-16 fighter jets. These purchases would, if approved by Congress, be financed largely by U.S. military aid. Congressman John Conyers (D-MI) requested that President Bush investigate whether Israel’s use of these weapons violated the Arms Export Control Act, which stipulates that U.S.-supplied weapons be used only for legitimate self-defense. The White House has not issued a public response.



Moreover, the U.S. Foreign Assistance Act prohibits military assistance to any country which engages in a consistent pattern of gross violations of internationally recognized human rights. The State Department, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, LAW , B’tselem, Al-Haq, and other human rights groups have all confirmed that in attempting to suppress the intifada Israel has employed collective punishments, home demolitions, detention without charges, torture of detainees, extra-judicial killings, and other violations of Palestinian human rights.

Finally, the Proxmire amendment bans military assistance to any government that refuses to sign the Nuclear non-Proliferation Treaty and to allow inspection of its nuclear facilities, which Israel refuses to do. Presidential and Congressional indulgence of Israel has allowed it to respond to the Palestinian intifada with massively disproportionate force, escalating the conflict beyond any possibility of a peaceful resolution in the foreseeable future. "

[chimpymustgo]

9. This is outright aggression - destruction and murder of innocents.

Israel is wrong. Our Dems should stand up and support what is right. Israel should stop bombing and murdering in Lebanon.

[alvarezadams]

14. By jingo!

Gawd.

:puke:

[Big Kahuna]

46. Hey Freep...

[reichstag911]

51. He/she/it will be gone soon, I suspect.

Check out its posts on Cindy Sheehan at http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1613195 .

[LynnTheDem]

69. Peace through slaughtering civilians.

Peace through violating cease-fires.

Peace through invasions & occupations.

Yes, that always works so very well. :eyes:

[Ripley]

3. No.

Israel is our bestest, number one friend and She deserves to defend herself. One of her soldiers is worth thousands of them there terrorist people.

Actually the D's and R's are ALL relieved the focus is off of the Disasterous Quagmire called Iraq. They can talk about other stuff now. Until the next hurricane wipes out another American city. Then it will be their fault for not leaving.

[bronxiteforever]

7. pain at the pump

bottom line is the middle and lower classes associate the gas price rise with the instability-gas prices are starting to sting the economy now and since the president and the vp are oil men-the association is starting to hit-Shrub is again MIA during a crisis-war as status quo won't be a winning political strategy this fall for anyone-especially if the economy tanks even more

[Greeby]

8. The Kooch, as always

http://www.kucinich.us/archive/home/display.php?src=k_20060706_zr_grafvbaf.cuc

July 6, 2006

Congressman Kucinich issued the following statement this week on the current situation in the Middle East:

"The lack of proportionality of Israel's response to the kidnapping of the soldier compounds a human rights disaster which has been building in the Palestinian territories and could set the stage for reigniting a cycle of extreme violence.

"The world community, led by the United States and Israel, must see the humanitarian imperative of relieving the suffering of innocent people in Palestine who are without the most basic of human necessities such as food, water, electricity, health care, housing, and economic security, in part because they exercised their right to self determination.

"The Hamas government needs to ensure the safe return of Cpl. Shalit and renounce its previous statements calling for the destruction of Israel, and end attacks against innocent Israeli civilians.

"Likewise, the Israeli government needs to halt its incursion into Gaza, withdraw its troops, facilitate payments to Palestinian civil servants, and renew its commitment to a viable two state solution which will ensure the survival of both the Palestinian and Israeli people. Such a commitment can only come about from a common recognition of common humanity.

"The governments of Israel and Palestine should exercise caution and compassion in the name of joint security and peace in the region. Peace will not prevail unless both sides are willing to call a cease fire, stop provocations and make concessions for their joint security, ensuring peace through building enduring structures for social and economic justice.

"The United States, which has played a role in building tensions, can ameliorate them by pursuing peaceful diplomatic initiatives to end the cycle of violence. The world community is best served by helping warring factions step back from the brink of war and begin a new effort to achieve a lasting peace. The United States has the moral obligation to lead this effort."

[liberaliraqvet26]

11. when AIPAC attacks we must stand by him

[alvarezadams]

17. Absolutely

:toast:

[jwirr]

44. I like that he puts the blame on both and requires both to take

positive actions. This is the only way there can ever be a ME settlement.

[dionysus]

57. oh shit!

GO DENNIS!

[liberaliraqvet26]

30. DU needs to have this debate....

whether it be flamed or not. The right wing Israeli's in the US and Israel have a lot to do with the war in Iraq, our "war on terror" and all other aspects on our foreign policy. They run the pentagon, extort our taxpayer dollars using the military industrial complex and are affecting our oil prices. This is too important to pussyfoot around.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. 
[link:www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html|Click
here] to review the message board rules.

[Poll_Blind]

59. No. Look at our OWN PARTY PLATFORM for the answer:

From the Democratic Party Platform:

The Democratic Party is fundamentally committed to the security of our ally Israel and the creation of a comprehensive, just and lasting peace between Israel and her neighbors. Our special relationship with Israel is based on the unshakable foundation of shared values and a mutual commitment to democracy, and we will ensure that under all circumstances, Israel retains the qualitative edge for its national security and its right to self-defense. Jerusalem is the capital of Israel and should remain an undivided city accessible to people of all faiths.

  Out party platform is fuzzy on alot of more important topics (don't trust my words, read it) but on Israel our support is very well-defined and very specific: Support "under all circumstances" is guaranteed along with access to our top-drawer military technology ("qualitative edge", above) which even some of our other, better-known allies do not have access to.

PB

[liberaliraqvet26]

61. that explains the support for the iraq mess....

and why holy joe even has a chance to win the primary

[JackNewtown]

68. What is wrong with that?

It merely says that the US will preserve Israeli military superiority over its rivals and supports the Israeli position on Jerusalem. It doesn't call for automatically supporting every single action Israel takes.

[ChiciB1]

66. I Agree With YOU!

I won't ever call you names. Something smells to high heaven here, just not sure what. BOTH sides need to get a grip, but Israel depends on America to prop them up all the time. I don't doubt Hezbollah is not extremely innocent either, but I'm kind of feeling that Israel had a itchy trigger finger.

[msmcghee]

78. Most Dem pols are too smart to fall for that crap.

Except maybe for the few Al Sharpton style anti-semitic con artists who are a disgrace to the Democratic Party.

*************************** Quote:

At this critical time in the Middle East, I believe that when Israel’s security is threatened, the United States must unambiguously stand with our ally to be sure that it is safe and secure. On this principle, Americans are united.

All Americans want the kidnapped soldiers to be returned and this cycle of violence to end, based on the principles of U.N. Security Council Resolution 1559 of 2004, which calls for Hezbollah militias to be disbanded and disarmed, with the government of Lebanon taking full control of all of its territory. It is not for the United States to dictate to Israel how it defends itself.

**************************

Neo-con hate talk?

No. This is from Ned Lamont's website. I'm glad Ned is serious about bringing America's true values to our foreign policy. Go to the "Mideast Sitaution" section at www.nedlamont.com

[msmcghee]

79. Any of you who can still be objective about this, please think . .

. . what this means.

It means that compared to many of the statements here at DU, most Americans - including the vast majority of Democrats like Ned Lamont - see George Bush's statements on this as better representing reality and America's values than many of the posts here at DU on this topic - that overtly describe Israel as the aggressor who "needs to be punished" - for defending itself.

Do these posters think that because of their emotional - hate Bush, hate the neo-cons rants - that the majority of Americans are going to "see the light"?

What will happen is the RW will simply use these misguided rants as proof that the Dem base is living in a "blame America first - Could never defend America against terrorists" - dream state.

Please stop and consider your position. Israel is fighting for her life surrounded by terrorist groups that have pledged to destroy Israel. Israel is defending against those attempts. Do you really want to be on the side of the religious fanatics trying to destroy a democratic secular state? Do you really want to give Karl Rove and the RW talking heads that additional weapon?

[Lithos]

82. Locking per I/P guidelines

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Lithos
DU Moderator