IDF warns south Lebanon residents of new IAF strikes

[Violet_Crumble]

The Israel Defense Forces on Sunday warned the residents of southern Lebanon to leave their homes in two hours and move ahead of Israel Air Force bombarments that were to follow shortly after the deadline expires.

GOC Northern Command Maj. Gen. Udi Adam told reporters "Hezbollah's actions do not surprise us. They've been stockpiling these arms for many years and the Lebanese government allowed this to happen."

According to the general, Hezbollah "is in Lebanon not to defend but in waiting for the day they would be able to harm Israel. As far as we are concerned there are no surprises and only determination will change the it."


"We have no intention to drag Syria into this conflict and all of our steps are cautious and measured. The objective is to change reality here in Israel and this is why our targets in Lebanon keep changing," he said.

"We have a pretty good idea where they are launching their rockets from - villages and small communities - and we have warned civilian resident to evacuate their homes," Maj. Gen. Adam added.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/738699.html

[Erika]

1. And Israel kills the innocents

We did the same in Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Maybe that's where they learned from. My tax $ used for something I'm 100% against.

[Behind the Aegis]

2. when do the fliers come from the terrorists?

Oh that is right....they don't! Eight dead Israelis in Haifa!

BTW...we didn't do the same in Nagasaki nor Hiroshima!

[Pitman]

6. This is what your fliers actually mean - please read.

Eight whole Israelis but what about the hundreds of Palestinians and Lebanese civilians murdered in the last week by the IDF. Sorry am I being anti-semetic? Oh and what about the popes recent condemnation of Israeli collective punishment or is he also anti-semetic? While the Arab world pulls it's hair out Israel crashes on. Why haven't Israel signed the Geneva convention? What is the UN actually for??????? Ten to one and Bolton still wins, if this were any other game the rules would be different. Pro Israeli lobby groups and media orgnisations are destroying our principles and sending our boys to war so they can continue their opression of the middle east. Is the world blind or am I losing the plot?

In Lebanon a van with fifteen children who were fleeing on the advice of your fliers were murdered by your bombs. You have killed about 50 children in the last week including a family of nine (seven of whom were children). Murder pure and simple.

[Violet_Crumble]

7. bta isn't Israeli...

Even if he were, I'd not recommend personally blaming a citizen of a country for the wrongdoing of its govt...


btw, welcome to DU, and you did make a good point that all those people killed by an Israeli rocket were only on the road because they were taking the advice of those stupid fliers from the IDF.

[Pitman]

9. No he just does their dirty work.

I never said he was - he just does their bidding in the name of America.

[Violet_Crumble]

12. Well, he does support Israel no matter what it does...

n/t

[Behind the Aegis]

14. And you support the terrorist no matter what they do...

n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

18. yeah, that's why I've stated continually that I don't support terrorism...

Try coming up with something that isn't contradicted by everything I've ever said in this forum :)

[Behind the Aegis]

19. you do the same....

:hi:

[Violet_Crumble]

21. Actually, I don't...

You've made yr stance very clear in just about every thread you've participated in here. From supporting the Israeli govt when it makes discriminatory laws aimed at Palestinians, to claiming you think the Israeli reaction to the capture of soldiers is too much, but then turning around and supporting everything Israel does militarily from that point on proves it...

[Behind the Aegis]

25. Chubby takes the stage!

[Violet_Crumble]

30. Yeah, and I'm replying to his posts!

n/t

[Behind the Aegis]

31. .

:rofl:

[Pitman]

23. Define Terrorism.

State terrorism = OK but militant terrorism = evil. Injustice breeds violence and the hundreds of palestinian children kidnapped and held without trial in Israeli prisons for years is causing outrage in the west too so can't Israel just sign up to the Geneva convention and the ethnic cleansing and land grabbing tactics will become illegal - just like they are in the rest of the "civilized world". Look at the amount of land palestine has lost over the last 50 years and how many refugees are in all of the neighbouring countries and you have to ask yourself why this is happening.

As they say "you shall know him by his work".

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pitman]

32. Yes

I have been observing this tragedy for years and reports from international charities and reputable news agencies (the truth is there if you dig deep enough) and the UN all confirm what I am saying. The Israeli press plain lie to you.

[Behind the Aegis]

34. MeMyselfandI

I thought so.

The Israeli press lies? Don't tell that to the "pro-Palestinians" that like to quote it!

[Violet_Crumble]

39. I think you should go and read the DU rules, bta...

Accusing new DUers of being posters from other forums is against the rules, I thought...

[Behind the Aegis]

40. ummm...where is that rule?

[Violet_Crumble]

42. Try clicking on the rules page, bta...

If you can't manage that on yr own, I'm happy to do it for you...

on edit: here it is - Do not publicly accuse another member of this message board of being a disruptor, conservative, Republican, FReeper, or troll, or do not otherwise imply they are not welcome on Democratic Underground.

[Behind the Aegis]

48. seeing your edit...

...what are you implying about "janet?"

You will see that I didn't accuse that poster of being "...disruptor, conservative, Republican, FReeper, or troll, or do not otherwise imply they are not welcome on Democratic Underground."

[Violet_Crumble]

53. Knock it off...

Yr accusing a new poster of being a banned ex-DUer. The rules here apply to you just the same as everyone else...

[Behind the Aegis]

55. but not to you?!

[Violet_Crumble]

56. I just said they applied to me as well...

Try to keep up...and try actually discussing the conflict for a change...

[Behind the Aegis]

57. why? you seem to like to attack my posts...

...even when the question isn't posed to you?

[Violet_Crumble]

59. I was pointing out the rules to you...

..something that you do on a regular basis to other posters, btw.

[Behind the Aegis]

61. and I humbly thank you...

:sarcasm:

[Violet_Crumble]

63. Great. Consider it a learning experience and move on...

...cause I'm sick and tired of this puerile crap...

[Pitman]

60. Disagreeing is not attacking - is it?

[Behind the Aegis]

62. no, it is not.

well, it is if you don't toe the 'party line.'

[Pitman]

45. Who is this Janet?

Was this aimed at me? I would like to clarify I am not called janet and have only found this site today - and I like it. It's nice to hear that not everyone is scared to speak out against their government and for good reason.

[Behind the Aegis]

52. Well, then welcome!

Perhaps you will find some interesting things and information beyond the propaganda.

[Pitman]

58. Thanks

We all have our opinions and I'm pleased you haven't resorted to insults and venom like so many other sites tend to when delicate issues are discussed. We can agree to disagree and we don't have to wage intellectual war about our principles - I like this site.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pitman]

71. Don't put words in my mouth!

All murder is wrong and I am just saying that Arab life appears to be cheap in Israel as we can see by their slaughter of the Lebanese. It's always the Israeli civilian deaths that grab the headlines and I ask why this is so? Next you'll be calling me an anti-semite because I value an Arab life just as much as any other.

[sweettater]

67. I, for one, agree with exactly

what you are saying. israel can do no wrong in the eyes of the US. Why? They control us. Sorry, it had to be said.

[Violet_Crumble]

68. That's complete rubbish...

Israel does not control the US. When it comes to foreign policy it's the US making decisions that it thinks is in its own self interests. If those self interests are the same as Israel's, that's fine, but the US would not hesitate for a second to leave Israel out to dry on its own if Israeli interests and US ones took off in different directions....

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Violet_Crumble]

70. Yeah, that must come from studying political science...

Let me be blunt with you. The whole idea that a country like Israel unlike any other country can control the foreign policy of the global hegemon defies belief. There is nothing rational about it, and this particular belief does seem to come either from an ignorance of how the US cooks up its foreign policy, or Antisemitism. The reason why Antisemitism can be a factor in this is because of the old 'the Jews control the world' canard which seems to have been renovated and reborn in a new wrapping....

[Pitman]

72. I agree with sweettater to a certain extent.

Please check out the situation in England with the Labour Friends of Israel who have funded our prime ministers private office and massively influenced our middle eastern agenda. Their money won Tony Blair his last election and now the police are arresting and questioning labour fundraisers and politicians. Who raises £40 million for a political party and expects nothing in return? They lobby more than any other organisation and are also subverting the BBC's ethical reporting of the middle eastern crisis by brandishing anyone who mentions the fact that Israel has an appauling human rights record as an anti-semite.

Respected people all over the world are confirming this opinion and you have to ask yourself why this is? The government are using secrecy laws to hide the truth and changing the law every ten minutes to suit themselves, we marched in the millions before the Iraq war and every body said that there could be no war (after a demonstration which was the biggest ever in Britain) but for some reason we didn't even wait for the second resolution.

We have a corrupt government and anyone who speaks out is having their knuckles rapped by lobby groups and the government. The (highly respected) muslim council have been totaly ignored but the Labour Friends of Israel have been taken way too seriously.

[sweettater]

76. Thank you, Pitman

people need to wake up to the jewish influence in this country. Some scream you are anti-semetic if you dare speak the very idea. My feeling is, we as a country, are greatly influenced by israel, if not completely controlled.

[Pitman]

78. Sometimes I'm scared to say anything.

We are under influence from all sorts of organisations and lobby groups which are not in the interest of the people. We in Britain and America are lied to on a regular basis. Sometimes I think that there will be problems when we don't know who to trust and what to believe when people like Joseph C. Wilson are proving our governments liars. I find that small liberal media groups have increased recently especially through podcasts and audio reports due to the lack of trust people who can think for themselves have in the mainstream medias links to governments and opinionated organisations.

I feel patronized every time I turn on the television or radio but wonder if I should say anything - just in case.

[cali]

75. Thanks, Violet

This concept or conspiracy theory or whatever you want to call it, that Israel is the puppetmaster of the US seems to be gaining currency on Du. It's patently absurd, and yet I'm seeing it more and more. Perhaps it's merely an understandably angry reaction to Israel's aggression in Lebanon and Gaza or perhaps its something more.

[Pitman]

79. You have a point

We are just starting to see what's actually happening due to the media explosion on the internet which is now available from all over the world and the entire political spectrum. Take much of it with a pinch of salt but do not dismiss it either because there is a massive problem with all kinds of corruption in the world today and we're peering over the edge of an abyss according to many respected people.

[cali]

73. I totally understand and

share your outrage over the deaths of the approximately 130 Lebanese civilians and the Palestinians killed in the last week, but frankly this business about the Israeli lobby and the media destroying our principles and sending our boys to war is just more of the Zionist plot to take over the world nonsense. You might want to think about what you're saying.

[Pitman]

74. Why are English politicians being arrested and questioned then?

Labour Friends of Israel member Lord Levy has been corrupting our government by selling honours. You are putting words in my mouth, I never said that.

[cali]

77. I know nothing about the British scandal you are referring about

I didn't put words in your mouth. You said that the Israeli lobby and Israeli controlled media were destroying the principles of the country. (not sure which country you're referring to) In any case, your obsession with Israeli/Jewish control of governments is disturbing.

[TomClash]

17. Now that comparison speaks volumes nt

[Behind the Aegis]

20. I didn't make the comparison to Japan!

[Violet_Crumble]

4. Not quite...

The residents of Nagasaki and Hiroshima weren't even warned. What this reminds me of is Fallujah where the residents were warned by the US to get out. This is a clear attempt by the military to absolve itself of any responsibility for civilian casualties that occur when they start bombing the crap out of civilians homes. It's cowardly in the extreme and if it isn't a violation of international law, it should be...

[Pitman]

35. I agree

If you were invaded and you saw bombs raining down and civilians being killed would you trust these leaflets? Especially if the government controls the media why would the Iraqis trust American soldiers? Leaflets do not make it OK to kill civilians. It's like saying "I warned him before I bombed him so that's OK"

[Behind the Aegis]

3. back on target!

Hopefully, they will be able to avoid civilian deaths, but still pound the terrorist Hizb'allah into the dust!

[Violet_Crumble]

5. The only thing that looks like being pounded....

...is towns and villages. I somehow doubt any Hezbollah fighters are going to be real cooperative and go: 'Israel is telling all civilians to leave their homes! Thank goodness they didn't tell us to leave as well or we'd not be able to sit here enjoying ourselves and wondering what's going to happen next!' ;)

[Behind the Aegis]

8. and that is a shame!

The cowards insert themselves into places that are populated with civilians. Thank goodness the Israelis aren't like the terrorists and just kill them all! :)

[Violet_Crumble]

10. In case you haven't noticed, the IDF has killed lots of civilians...

Only 24hrs ago a vanload of Lebanese civilians were killed by the IDF on a road that was populated by civilians fleeing. It makes me sick to my stomach to see smiley faces and 'it's a shame' as a response to the likelihood that more civilians are going to be killed...

[Behind the Aegis]

13. I noticed...

Perhaps I should have used the "wink."

[Violet_Crumble]

16. No, maybe you should have expressed some damn concern...

...about the rising civilian death toll, and not just when it comes to Israeli casualties. After all, didn't you say you thought Israel had over-reacted? Then why is it that in every thread from that point on you support everything Israel does and never say it's too much. This, bta, is too much. Too many civilians are dying and it needs to stop...

[Behind the Aegis]

22. Ms Crumble....

Where is your OUTRAGE at the deaths of the Israelis?

Oh, VC, are you slipping?! "After all, didn't you say you thought Israel had over-reacted?" I thought I NEVER criticized Israel? Then you turn around and say...."Then why is it that in every thread you support everything Israel does and never say it's too much. Notice that 'absolutist' word again! Isn't saying Israel over-reacted saying it "is too much?"

Too many civilians are dying! Only one side seems to care!

[Violet_Crumble]

29. Can you try reading my posts?

My posts have consistantly said that the deaths of any civilians is not acceptable. Would you like links?

I think I recall saying in a post that I know you read that you RARELY if ever voice any criticism of Israel, and that one short comment was dragged out of you unwillingly. After that, you have done nothing but voice yr complete support for anything Israel has done militarily. Yr words since then are not matching what you said earlier. Those of us who do think Israel's reaction is too much have all voiced our concern at what we see as going too far...


Too many civilians are dying! Only one side seems to care!

Speaking of absolutist, this 'only one side' crap picks up the award. This isn't about 'sides' bta. It's about giving enough of a shit about ALL civilians and not negating the horrible way some are dying by putting it down to things like 'tragic accidents'. 'terrorists hiding behind them', 'collateral damage' etc...

[Behind the Aegis]

33. .

:rofl:

You obviously don't read my posts...well, you do...but don't comprehend them.

It is about 'sides,' or have you not being reading the other forums in DU? Dead israelis...Israel's fault, dead Lebanese, Israel's fault, dead anyone, Israel's fault...

[Violet_Crumble]

36. Newsflash: this isn't about sides...

This comment was completely absurd. 'Too many civilians are dying! Only one side seems to care!' Are you really trying to tell me that you think this 'pro-Palestinian' side of yrs en-masse do not give a shit about Israeli civilians dying???? That's the most stupid and one-eyed statement I've seen for a long time in this forum...

If as you claim I don't comprehend yr posts, then show me these posts of yrs where you've said anything after that one short admission that Israel was over-reacting where you have done anything but agree with the actions being taken by Israel....

[Behind the Aegis]

37. why?

[Violet_Crumble]

41. If you need me to explain the stupidity of that comment...

...I can't add anything to what I've already said. My hope is that most regulars in this forum can and do rise above that childish 'My side is good. The other side is evil' type of crap....

[Behind the Aegis]

43. perhaps they will...

...'search" is a great function here....but, then again, they only need read this thread!

[Violet_Crumble]

47. And maybe one day you will as well...

Being an optomist I can always live in hope.

[Pitman]

50. The only side we should be on is that of HUMAN RIGHTS

Typical - you speak out against Israel or dare to mention their victims and you are one-sided. The Israeli deaths are all over the news but the deaths of children from palestine never make the front page. Peace and justice and human rights are the side we should all be on - hence the Geneve convention which Israel has not signed.

[LiberalPartisan]

38. Too many civilans ARE dying

And it can stop - Israel has already made clear what it will take. Apparently Hezbollah wants the killing to continue.

[Pitman]

65. Yes but...

This is true but lets also look at the Lebanese statements. Lebanon has called for a ceasefire and offered to send their troops to the south to deal with Huzballah but would Israel accept this reasonable peaceful response? The civilian death count speaks for itself. Israel talks a good talk but their actions are far from peaceful.

[Pitman]

15. These cowards managed to kick Israel out of south Lebanon.

I don't support them but I don't think they are cowards. They fight on the ground and by the way their kidnap of the solier was a response to the kidnap of a civilian doctor in Palestine and the detention of their citizens which has been grossly misrepresented in the media. There is a real problem with the way Israel can ignore human rights issues but when the Arabs do it we all scream murder.

[Behind the Aegis]

24. They didn't do shit!

They are cowards! They hide among civilians, don't wear uniforms, and don't even "protect" their own 'country."

BTW....they don't give a shit about Palestinians!

[Pitman]

26. And Israel doesn't use civilians as an excuse to punish it's neighbours.

Israel is always waiting for an excuse to show their military dominance but if they really cared about their civilians they would make a LEGITIMATE effort to talk to the demmocratically elected government of palestine who observed a ceasefire for a surprising amount of time despite constant provocation from the IDF. Peace is the only way but that doesn't suit their expansive agenda.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE A DOMOCRACY DOES THAT GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO DESTROY IT?

[Behind the Aegis]

28. ?!?!?

[LiberalPartisan]

44. Both sides must want peace

Hezbollah doesn't want peace.

[Violet_Crumble]

51. And neither side wants it right now...

n/t

[Pitman]

54. I agree but...

Why should we be pressing a renegade organisation to act with restraint when we can't even get a "civilized" country like Israel to adhere to the basic principles of the Geneve convention?

[Violet_Crumble]

66. I'd be happy if both were pressed to act with restraint....

..and I'd be even happier if both listened...

[IntiRaymi]

80. I don't think Israel has signed the Geneva Convention.

Here is a key paragraph:

"The Fourth Geneva Convention on Rules of War was adopted in 1949 by the international community in response to Nazi atrocities during World War II. The international treaty governs the treatment of civilians during wartime, including hostages, diplomats, spies, bystanders and civilians in territory under military occupation. The convention outlaws torture, collective punishment and the resettlement by an occupying power of its own civilians on territory under its military control. In the fifty years since its adoption, the Fourth Geneva Convention has never been reconvened to dispute world atrocities including those in Bosnia, Rwanda, Kosovo, Tibet, etc."

Israel opposes this, why?

"Israel rejects applying the 4th Geneva Convention to Israeli settlements in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, stating that those territories were captured in 1967 as a result of a defensive war against countries which had illegally occupied them since 1948."

Where did I get this from? The website for the Anti Defamation League (ADL):
http://www.adl.org/PresRele/UnitedNations_94/3468_94.asp

In other words, Israel reserves for herself the right to violate Palestinian human rights BECAUSE they won a war in 1967.

[Scurrilous]

81. "..don't wear uniforms.."

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/07/15/ap/world/mainD8ISBBB00.shtml&h=401&w=512&sz=72&hl=en&start=7&tbnid=qA8lTmT1-18T-M:&tbnh=100&tbnw=128&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dhezbollah%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26hs%3DzQp%26lr%3D%26rls%3DDGUS,DGUS:2006-15,DGUS:en%26sa%3DN


BTW...this is just one example. Google Hezbollah and click on images. There are numerous examples of the Hezbollah militia in uniform.

[LiberalPartisan]

46. Agreed

Using civilians as Human shields is the cowards way - but that is always the case with terrorists. But the Lebanese people are complicit in this too - they have done nothing to evict Hezbollah - quite the opposite. So -IMHO the entire country is a legitimate target. Bombs away!

[Violet_Crumble]

49. Holy fuck! You support attacks on Lebanense civilians!

Thanks for yr honesty, I guess.

[Pitman]

64. Well...

If Israel carries on killing civilians in the hundreds don't you think this will encourage more people to support hizbullah for what would appear to them as simple retaliation. Blind support for murder of Lebanese civilians will just make you look as bad as anyone, aren't we better than that? Peace is the only way and if the use disproportionate retaliation is deemed acceptable the criticism of Israel from peace lovers all over the planet (including Israelis) is even more justified.