The rocket menace that no one wanted to acknowledge

[eyl]

Where have the rockets suddenly come from? For six years the Hezbollah rockets in Lebanon were a source of contempt in the Israeli press. Analysts, economists and others argued that the defense establishment regularly exaggerated a peripheral threat to influence deliberations on the budget. Why else would the head of Military Intelligence decide that the Hezbollah had 12,000 rockets, when only a few months later he had claimed it held only 11,000? In the past few days it turns out that the imaginary Hezbollah arsenal is real, and it is striking Haifa, Safed and Tiberias.

The denial was not a press monopoly. Politicians and even some General Staff officers refused to regard the issue as a priority. The pullout from Lebanon, following 18 years of blood letting was accompanied with such an enormous sense of relief that any talk on what was left behind was considered troublesome.

The rocket deliveries continued on weekly flights from Iran to Damascus and Beirut, and Israel followed the movement with a near academic curiosity. In the immediate aftermath of the withdrawal from southern Lebanon in May, 2000, hundreds of Lebanese rushed to Fatma Gate, near Metula, and threw stones at the Israeli soldiers. In response, the Israel Defense Forces enclosed the soldiers in a metal cage, and then pulled the position away from the border all together in an effort to avoid friction.

Israel held back out of concern for the rocket menace. At the General Staff one school of thought maintained that the Hezbollah is restrained by various regional developments, and that it never really intended to make use of the rockets. The attack last week has revealed serious failures in the way the IDF forces functioned, but what is worse is the conclusion that reconciling with the presence of Hezbollah forces along the border decided the fate of the reservists that were killed and abducted.

Haaretz

[Minnesota Libra]

1. So what is the point?? That everyone.........

....underestimated Hezbollah and the range of the rockets??? Yup!!!! I'd say that is a foregone conclusion at this point. But then what's a thousand or so rockets among enemies anyway??

[Warren Stupidity]

2. The point appears to be that ony we are allowed to bomb the

living crap out of other people.

[Minnesota Libra]

3. What everyone is conveniently ignoring is................

.....whether we like it or not, and whether we agree or not, there will ALWAYS be "dominate world powers". In other words, one or two countries in the world will always dictate to others how they want it and how it should be done.

Those doing the dictating will from time to time "bomb the crap out of other people", because those other people aren't doing it right. That is human nature and rail against it as we may and it will still happen. Unfortunately, humans like was and they like making war on people they don't agreee with. So, the solution is not to stop the "bombing the crap out of other people" because that will NEVER HAPPEN, instead the solution is to minimize it as much as possible.

That is HOPEFULLY where the UN and cool heads will prevail. I'm not holding my breath though.:shrug:

[GeorgeGist]

4. There is no guarantee that humans will ALWAYS...

dominate the world. Cheers

[Minnesota Libra]

5. If you remember right from history books.............

....even animals fought to the death from time to time. The animals may have had more lofty reasons for their fights that humans do but it still happened. If humans do die out the earth may be a bit more peaceful but not totally peaceful.

[barb162]

14. excellent point

I think with overpopulation, pollution, global warming and all, we have not all that long

[Warren Stupidity]

13. So a democracy of nations is not possible?

I could reduce your statement to its individual equivalent, that there will always be dominant human beings who will force others to submit to their desires, but I continue to believe that human society can evolve, that we are not trapped in patterns of dominance, that cooperation and mutual aid are other forms of organizational ideals that can take us beyond where we are now stuck. At any rate the current system is broken, the temporary dominance of our military in the age of nuclear weapons and peak oil will be fleeting, and our little experiment will not have a happy ending.

[pelsar]

6. israeli overflights: condemmed...

despite the importing of the rockets into hizballa land...and their threats and the fact that the lebanese army did nothing (or couldnt)....israel for its own security overflew lebanon on recon flights

which were always condemned (and of course here on the DU as well).....good think israel ignored the condemnations took the pictures and before all of them could be launched took out quite a few....sometimes you just have to ignore the worlds condemnations if you want to live.

[Minnesota Libra]

8. Wow, someone at DU, besides myself, who ..............

.....doesn't automatically think Israel is always wrong in everything they do and Hezballoh/Arabs are always right in everything they do.:wow:

[AnOhioan]

12. Stop the dramatics....

"sometimes you just have to ignore the worlds condemnations if you want to live."

Please, Israel has the strongest AND the only nuclear armed force in the mideast. They are in no danger of annihilation.

Nice way to inflame the arguments.

[barb162]

15. There's no dramatics at all there

The overflights were in retrospect a terrific move by Israel because Israel was able to find and take out some of these rockets.

As to no danger of annihilation, what do you call Iran's leaders talking about that exact thing on more than one occasion ?

"Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has openly called for Israel to be wiped off the map."
Wednesday 26 October 2005
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/15E6BF77-6F91-46EE-A4B5-A3CE0E9957EA.htm

[bemildred]

7. This guy is confused if he thinks this was a surprise.

Or for that matter that it was not "acknowledged". It may well be the case that the government was not anxious to talk about it much.

[eyl]

10. He's putting it a bit too strongly

As I mentioned on another thread, Israel tried (unsuccessfully) to use diplomatic means to get the Lebenese army to take control of the southern border. But the danger was considerably downplayed, especially in the international arena.

[bemildred]

11. That is true, but the situation is and has been well known.

Which was what I meant to point out. I was well aware of it, and I don't pay that much attention. What you have is a dispute about how it ought to be, or have been, dealt with; and it seems to me that there were sound reasons for the course taken, whatever drawbacks it may appear to have now that Olmert has decided to respond to Nasrallah's provocation.

[barb162]

16. yeah, that's how I see it, eyl

[bemildred]

9. Why, oh why, did Sharon allow this to happen? nt

[barb162]

17. What do you mean, bemildred?

If he went in there, everyone would be screaming about Israel violating international law. With the Hez attack, the circumstances changed dramatically
the story:
"The trauma of Lebanon: Between March 2001 and January 2006, Israel was run by the only man who under no circumstances could order a land incursion into Lebanon. For former prime minister Ariel Sharon this was a line that could not be crossed. In addition to this fundamental constraint, there were other excuses, ranging from the need to avoid a second front (in view of the second intifada) to preserving the tourism industry in the Galilee. The General Staff w as also not terribly enthusiastic for most of the generals who enlisted following the Yom Kippur War in 1973, and for whom the Lebanon War in 1982 was a sad experience. Even now, as the fighting continues, there is evident hesitation about using ground forces and having them bogged down in a quagmire. At this time, t he emphasis is on technologically sophisticated air attacks and limited operations by commando forces.
"

[bemildred]

18. It was sarcasm Barb.

Just pointing out that this occurred on his watch. If there is blame to be had in this, it would seem he ought to get some.

[barb162]

19. BWA! I thought it was sarcasm

with the "why oh why" part ( as I never noticed you doing THAT before)but figured I'd better take it seriously. Glad you clarified! Peace

[bemildred]

20. I think the story is contrived, 20-20 hindsight.

Possibly with the intent of butt-covering due to the unpleasant situation WRT the rockets now. Dragging Arik in was a way to point that out.

[barb162]

21. Yeah there are some aspects of that there.

I wish though that the Lebanese had done something about Hez bringing in the arms.