Does Israel has a right to exist?

[still_one]

The purpose of this poll is just the basic question does Israel have a right to exist, not what the boundaries should or shouldn't be

[everythingsxen]

1. Hrrrm let me think...

Should Jewish people be allowed to have their own nation after centuries of attempted exterminations by other nations....

I don't know I will have to think about that. :eyes:

As an alternate question.. Do YOU have the right to exist? Does anyone? Does any nation?

[still_one]

5. This isn't meant to be a flame bait, I also created a seperate Poll

for a Palestinian state

[CuteNFuzzy]

6. Palestinians obviously do not have that right

The right bestowed upon them is the right to have their land taken from them, to live in squalor, to have their houses bombed or bulldozed at any time, and of course if any one of them shows the least bit of resistance, then they must take an Israeli bullet to the head, or a jet fighter strike upon their neighborhoods.

[everythingsxen]

9. I didn't say I approved of their policies..

I simply said they have a right to exist. As I have stated in several other Israli/Palestinian threads, I blame the British.

And for the record, the Palestinians have a right to their own seperate state as well.

[CuteNFuzzy]

12. not meant to be argumentative with you (or anybody here)

I was stating what I think needs to be stated.

I blame the British as well, FWIW.

[LA lady]

26. Look what the author of the Balfour declaration admitted

After the Balfour Declaration (which supported the creation of Israel) the author said this is the first time "one nation solemnly promised to a second nation the country of a third."

[Wonk]

2. 12 votes in 3 minutes. Hottest poll I've ever seen here I think. nt

[kwyjibo]

3. Does any person or nation have the right to say it doesn't?

Now that it's there, who can take it away?

[TahitiNut]

4. Nations don't have 'rights' - people have rights.

Governments have derived powers, delegated by people who (freely) associate to form a nation. National sovereignty and boundaries exist and are enforced by the power of arms - they are the epitome of entitlements: created by and enforced by government.

[still_one]

7. my point was to see if there was common ground

[Bucky]

13. More common ground: "Do you breath oxygen? [ ] Yes [ ] No (check one)"

If the common ground is down to "does someone have the right to exist?" I suspect we're past talking time.

[still_one]

14. It is much more than that

the attention always seems to focus away from the peacemakers and toward the agressors on both sides

[Bucky]

8. Obtuse semantic hair splitting. "Do Israelis have right to form a state?"

Better? Just answer the flamebait and move on.

[still_one]

11. It wasn't meant as flame bait, I put up one for the Palestinian cause also

It was to see if there was common ground just in our small environment

If you look at both polls, I would say definitely YES

[northzax]

17. that is actually a completely different question from the one posed

completely different.

[DRoseDARs]

10. Be careful with your use of language. In polsci, "nation" refers to...

...a given group of people, like the Jewish "nation," the Cherokee "nation," or the Hutu and Tutsi "nations." So yes, "nations" have every right to exist. It's states/countries that are in legal limbo.

[TahitiNut]

24. I was fairly careful. The question would be then whether 'rights' can

... be collective. I would assert that rights are individual and inalienable - created coincident with the person, not by some other person but by their very birth/existence as a human being. In the exercise of such rights, people associate themselves with one another. Some nations haven't equated "existence" with enforced boundaries or sovereign territory - that's what makes it a state/country.

I distinguish between 'rights' and 'entitlements' - the former don't need to be 'created' by any state or nation they exist before and above the state. States themselves exist subordinate to the rights of the people, not superior to them. Thus, states can't create rights, rights create states. Entitlements, on the other hand, are creatures of law. They're created and enforced by the police power of the state. While we would hope that entitlements are just, they often are not.

Given the history of the Middle East under Imperial powers - Roman, Ottoman, British - one can fairly question whether the rights of people to form their own states are being respected and whether the entitlements of states are just.

[northzax]

15. no.

and before anyone gets all up in arms about it listen.

no country has a 'right' to exist, countries exist as long as the citizens of that country want it to exist. Counties are simply collections of people, in a geographic location, with common goals. Israel has no more right to exist than the United States does, and no less right. As long as the citizens of that country want it to exist, it will exist. If they ever cease to want that, it will cease to exist. Thus, is has no right to exist independant of the citizens of that country. plain and simple.

[still_one]

23. and your nuance has nothing to do with what the poll was suppossed

to reflect

There were two polls, one for Israel, one for Palestinine. Both polls indicate that MOST people believe both sides should have a state with secure boundaries

maybe we need more attention applied to the peacemakers, instead of those on both sides who prefer war

[Clarkie1]

16. Do the 4 jackasses who voted no have a right to exist?

hmmm...have to think about that one.

[still_one]

18. I provided two polls, for each side

and though there is no scientific basis I believe the polls reflect the feelings of most people, that Israelies and Palestinians should each have their own state within secure boundaries

[northzax]

20. who cares about most people?

the only people that matter are the people involved. if the Palestinians want a state, they should get one, if the Israelis want a state, they should have one as well. but the right to exist is in the people, not the state. that was my point.

[northzax]

19. I voted no

please explain how you disagree with my reasoning in post 15. or maybe I should just vanish and not make you think?

[Bucky]

22. Yes. But not the right to be taken seriously when they say stupid shit

Ooops. I mean "stupid stuff"

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. You Do Know

You do know some people mess with these polls for shit and kicks.

If you asked do you brush your teeth there will be people who say no for fun.

[regnaD kciN]

30. Would you ask the same question...

...about the six jackasses who voted no on whether the Palestinians deserved a state of their own in the other poll?

[AlamoDemoc]

21. Israel is exists out of favour from the world....and they are planted

as a nation in the Middle East....and because Isrealis wanted to create a nation of their own of promised land.

[readmoreoften]

27. So is that a yes or a no? /nt

[JackNewtown]

28. Absolutely

Long live Israel.

[Behind the Aegis]

29. AM YISRAEL CHAI!

[regnaD kciN]

31. I think I'll start another poll...

...on whether or not the United States should have the right to exist.

[Lithos]

32. Locking per I/P guidelines

Not based on a recent news or op-ed article

Lithos
DU Moderator