Lest we forget. Israeli attack on the USS Liberty.

[Jara sang]

http://www.ussliberty.org/

AMERICAN LEADERS SUPPORT USS Liberty SURVIVORS
The Israeli government, the AntiDefamation League, and
certain notorious apologists for Israel insist that the attack was
a tragic accident and that the US government accepts that assertion.
Not so. Virtually every knowledgeable American official with
the lone exception of Robert McNamara is on public record
calling the attack deliberate and the Israeli story untrue.
Here are a few of those American leaders.




"I was never satisfied with the Israeli explanation. . . . Through diplomatic channels we refused to accept their explanations. I didn't believe them then, and I don't believe them to this day. The attack was outrageous "
-- US Secretary of State Dean Rusk



"...the board of inquiry (concluded) that the Israelis knew exactly what they were doing in attacking the Liberty."
-- CIA Director Richard Helms



"I can tell you for an absolute certainty (from intercepted communications) that the Israelis knew they were attacking an American ship."
-- NSA Deputy Director Oliver Kirby



"That the Liberty could have been mistaken for the Egyptian supply ship El Quseir is unbelievable"
-- Special Assistant to the President Clark Clifford, in his report to President Lyndon Johnson



"The highest officials of the administration, including the President, believed it 'inconceivable' that Israel's 'skilled' defense forces could have committed such a gross error."
-- Lyndon Johnson's biographer Robert Dallek in Flawed Giant, Oxford University Press, 1998, pp. 430-31)




"A nice whitewash for a group of ignorant, stupid and inept ."
-- Handwritten note of August 26, 1967, by NSA Deputy Director Louis W. Tordella reacting to the Israeli court decision exonerating Israelis of blame for the Liberty attack.



"Never before in the history of the United States Navy has a Navy Board of Inquiry ignored the testimony of American military eyewitnesses and taken, on faith, the word of their attackers.
-- Captain Richard F. Kiepfer, Medical Corps, US Navy (retired), USS Liberty Survivor



"The evidence was clear. Both Admiral Kidd and I believed with certainty that this attack...was a deliberate effort to sink an American ship and murder its entire crew.... It was our shared belief. . .that the attack. . .could not possibly have been an accident.... I am certain that the Israeli pilots their superiors. . .were well aware that the ship was American."
-- Captain Ward Boston, JAGC, US Navy (retired), senior legal counsel to the US Navy Court of Inquiry



That the attack was deliberate "just wasn't a disputed issue" within the National Security Agency
-- Former NSA Director retired Army Lieutenant General William Odom on 3 March 2003 in an interview for Naval Institute Proceedings



Former NSA/CIA Director Admiral Bobby Inman "flatly rejected" the Cristol/Israeli claims that the attack was an accident
-- 5 March 2003 interview for Naval Institute Proceedings



Of four former NSA/CIA seniors with inside knowledge, none was aware of any agency official who dissented from the position that the attack was deliberate
-- David Walsh, writing in Naval Institute Proceedings



"It appears to me that it was not a pure case of mistaken identity."
-- Captain William L. McGonagle, Commanding Officer, USS Liberty, speaking at Arlington National Cemetery, June 8, 1997



"To suggest that they couldn't identify the ship is ... ridiculous. ... Anybody who could not identify the Liberty could not tell the difference between the White House and the Washington Monument."
-- Admiral Thomas Moorer, Chief of Naval Operations and later Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff, quoted in The Washington Post, June 15, 1991, p. 14

[Ready4Change]

1. Unfamiliar with this. What would Israels motive be? n/t

[NoPasaran]

6. Israel's motives remain unclear

Unlike those of the OP

[Malikshah]

10. Actually-- there are strong theories as to the motives

Mainly that in the final hours/days of the war, Israel did not wish the US to know exactly what Israel was planning on doing--

IN the context of the time, Israel had no reason to 100% trust the US and vice versa.

[Jara sang]

11. And why don't you tell me what "my motives" are?

[acmejack]

24. They didn't want us intercepting their signals intelligence.

Funny how military folks are about secret codes & that sort of stuff. State secrets and such.

They had warned us off officially, State & the Pentagon got their wires crossed, that's why the Liberty got smoked.

[blonndee]

2. I'm against Israel's actions now, but I think this is irrelevant

and inflammatory. I see no good that could possibly come of this. Please reconsider.

[Jara sang]

4. Wow the deaths of American service men are irrelevant?

WOW! Just wow.

[blonndee]

5. It's irrelevant to the situation at hand.

But you knew what I meant.

[TomInTib]

16. I disagree, blonndee

The Liberty incident illuminates the fact that Israel will launch an offensive on anyone (even their sole benefactor) if they think that said action will somehow further their cause.

No one has (officially) ever figured out the motive.

While I am neither pro- or anti-Israel, I am dead set against War Crimes.

[blonndee]

23. Perhaps in conjunction with some commentary

(THOUGHTFUL commentary) in the OP, I might be able to agree with you to some extent, if not for recent, previous threads similar to this one.

I have been among those who have harshly criticized Israel's actions in the last few days; however, as I stated in my OP, I see no good that can come of this.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

30. I Think You Contradicted Yourself

You admit you don't know the motive or even if there was a motive. It could have been a tragic accident but somehow you conclude that " Israel will launch an offensive on anyone (even their sole benefactor) if they think that said action will somehow further their cause."

[TomInTib]

35. Did you read all of the OP?

I didn't think so.

It was no accident. I served with two radiomen who were on that boat. They were all over the frequencies trying to get the Israelis' attention. They received no response at all.

Go back and read the OP.

[driver8]

43. You are right, TomInTib.

My father is a retired CT Chief and he also had friends on the Liberty. His buddies told him that there was no way the Israelis could not know that they were firing on an American ship.

One of the guys said that the Liberty was flying a huge American flag. He said the flag got shot up and they put up another one. He also said that the Israelis had been flying over the ship for hours and the crew had waved to them.

There is absolutely no way they could think that the Liberty was anything other than an American ship.

[Pavulon]

3. Biggest >>

ever in this context..

Lest we forget malmedy

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. Untermenschen (sic)

eom

[Jara sang]

8. What exactly do you mean by this?

Is it a reference to Nietzsche?

[blonndee]

9. To whom are you referring?

If you don't mind me asking. I think I get what you mean but some clarification would be nice.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. The (Sic) Was Meant To Denote Irony

Obviously the original poster started this thread to cast dispersions on the Israelis, read Jews.

He posted this after his other thread was locked by Skinner who called it "disgraceful."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1688284



Skinner ADMIN (1000+ posts) Fri Jul-21-06 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
56. Locking.
This is shameful.

The insinuation that some of our members are not loyal to this country because they support Israel is disgraceful. I'm embarrassed to see it here on DU.
Alert Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | To

[blonndee]

17. That's what I thought you were doing.

The irony is apt indeed. This thread, too, is disgraceful.

[liberalpragmatist]

12. Oh stop - this is absolutely irrelevant to the current situation

Israel might well be in the wrong here, but all you're doing is formenting hatred. This is the same kind of demonization that leads to war and conflict on EVERY side. I oppose it when done from an Israeli point-of-view, and I oppose when done from another point-of-view.

[Jara sang]

15. How is examining historical events fomenting hatred?

It's "fomenting" by the way, not "formenting". The website I posted is a memorial to fallen American servicemen for crying out loud.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. Correcting Spelling Errors On An Internet Board.

That's usually the surest sign one is on the wrong side of an argument.

<SIGH>

[liberalpragmatist]

25. You got me

On the "fomenting" part at least.

There is nothing wrong with examining historical events; but I don't see how this relates to the situation at hand. What I disapprove of is using historical grievances to affect attitudes towards a country's current actions in the current day. Whether or not this was your intent, you appear to be trying to turn people viscerally anti-Israel by evoking a historical grievance; this is an all-too-often strategy between countries that I feel shouldn't have a place in a modern world. Historical grudges have lead to war time and time again, and I don't like them.

[benburch]

13. OK, you are cruisin' for a bruisin'

What is going on here? Can't you see that this issue, the USS Liberty incident, and the present issues are wholly unrelated? That was two generations ago.

You are deliberately trying to stir up shit here and divide this community, and it is SHAMEFUL.

YES, I know of the incident and disapprove of what Israel did do very long ago. More than that I disapprove of our own government's actions in the aftermath. But neither of those rise to the level of disapproval I have for YOU right now.

I'd say more, but I do not want to have my account here on DU deleted as you likely shall soon.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. Who Knows What Happens In The Fog Of War

"We" blew an Iranian civilian airliner right out of the sky and killed 198 civilian passengers. I don't think "we" did it on purpose.

And if the most sophisticated Navy in the world could fuck up like that who knows what happened forty years ago in the midst of war.

[benburch]

28. Even if it were calculated and deliberate as I and Liberty's crew believe

...that still has NO relation to the present conflict and is only placed here to disrupt this forum and to divide us in a calculated manner, and I am disgusted by it.

I have posted about USS Liberty in the past. But NOW IS NOT THE TIME.

[Behind the Aegis]

18. .

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/liberty.html

[Jara sang]

21. Grievous error? The ship was flying a giant American flag!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Behind the Aegis]

27. You were there?

The fact is that some people who were on the ship and at the event paint a VERY different picture. Besides this is nothing more than crap to stir up the "Israeli-lasters" and they don't need any stirring, they are already in full swing, fangs a-glistening. It would be no different if I posted "lest we forgot Munich" in response to an issue in Gaza!

[Jara sang]

33. You don't have to post "lest we for get Munich"

There is a movie about it. Remember?

[Malikshah]

38. FYI-- Proof has been provided of wind speed, direction, and the

flags on the ship. After 2 runs at the ship only a poor-eyesighted pilot would have missed it.

Sorry that dog won't hunt.

Now-- as to the relevancy of the thread-- the only thing I can think of is the near unanimous tongue-licking by the Congress today. Of course, the Congress wouldn't care about the USS Liberty, they haven't since 1967

[mmonk]

20. And this has to do with the current crisis in what manner?

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[still_one]

34. there is no doubt about it

Yes, Israel was probably wrong, but bringing this particular incident up, has only one purpose, and that is to incite opinion against Israel, and possibly the Jews

Real constructive dialog here

Maybe I could list the wrongs that countries have done to each other, and what would that prove?

The person who started this thread is a real winner. I could go to right wing racist sites and read the same flame bait, as though that Israel is "pure evil", and then list this or that

Its all bullshit, but it sure has opened my eyes up to the way people scheme

[still_one]

29. so what is your point?

No, it was NOT a good thing, neither was Pearl Harbor

I believe the purpose of your post only has OBJECTIVE, and that is to incite more hatred against Israel at DU

Do you want me to list the wrongs of every country?

Instead of trying to have a constructive dialog, you bring you an issue which occurred in 1967 in the middle of the six day war. No excuses for what Israel did in that incident, but this is the same crap they post on David Duke's and other hate group sites, to illicit attacks against Israel, and also Jews

Excellent flame bait, and obviously that is what you want

[DemonFighterLives]

31. I was going to say it is proof that we can't trust them

but I would surely be flamed for that. I guess that we need to keep our eyes open for terror on all sides including from within. *
Still a lot of questions regarding 911 as well.
:dem:

[JackNewtown]

36. This was four decades ago

I don't think it is legitimate to bash Israel for a relatively minor incident four decades ago.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[umtalal]

39. Jara, that is their MO. Don't despair.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[driver8]

41. My father was a Navy Crypto Tech and had friends on the Liberty.

One of them sued Israel and was awarded $50,000 tax free.

The Israelis knew that the Liberty was an American ship. They got away with murder.

[still_one]

42. so do you think we should destory them?

[driver8]

44. Nope -- not at all. Should I???

[still_one]

45. good answer on both accounts

[Meshuga]

46. What's the point of this post?

To add more hatred for Israel? How constructive! :eyes:

[Lithos]

47. Locking

This topic is old and not based on any recent news or op-ed article

Lithos
DU Moderator