Israeli troops praise Hezbollah tactics

[bemildred]

They said they were battling an intelligent, well-prepared and ruthless guerrilla army whose fighters didn't seem to fear death.

"It's hard to beat them," one soldier said. "They're not afraid of anything."

The soldiers described exchanges of gunfire in between houses and on village streets with Hezbollah fighters sometimes popping out of bushes to fire Kalashnikovs, rocket propelled grenades (RPG) and anti-tank missiles.

The troops' comments underscored the enormous challenges faced by Israel as it seeks to neutralise Hezbollah, which captured two Israeli soldiers in a cross-border raid on July 12, prompting massive air and ground reprisals.

al Jazeera

[Igel]

1. I hate it when Israelis--or Americans--provide

perfect PR soundbites that'll be taken in a way completely different from intended.

You praise your enemy in three instances: One, in which you're defeated and accept your dishonor like a dog, and want to mollify him; two, in which you're trying to avoid dishonor by saying how much more superior the enemy is; three, in which you're trying to say how wonderful you and your god are, because you're wiping out this great and glorious foe. The first denies yourself any honor, the second says you can't be held accountable, and the third gives yourself honor. Siniora wallows in (2), Nasrallah is routinely employing (3).

You diss your enemy in all other circumstances. Accuracy and truth are not relevant to this type of discourse.

It's clearly not (3) because the Israelis aren't clearly kicking Hezbollah ass. That means (2) or (1) are the likely interpretations. Clearly, increasing Hezbollah's morale is not the best thing.

[bemildred]

2. Or you could just shutup.

I was surprised to run into this story. Makes one wonder about the censors and all ...

[cracksquirrel]

3. Israel isn't

nearly as good at the whole media management/censorship thing as the USA is.

[bemildred]

6. They seem to have a much more open press.

On the other hand, I understand that their censors have a great deal of power.

[pelsar]

4. i heard differently...

that the IDF moral is very high....(volunteers keeping calling to join up)....casualties are few...and they are advancing...taking their time.....and are rather disgusted with the way Hizballa attacks and hides weapons amongst the civilians.....

[cracksquirrel]

5. Granted

this is an al jazeera article... *shrug*

[bemildred]

7. True enough.

I've seen nothing to indicate low morale. Casualties are indeed few. They do seem in no hurry.

I understand Israel is littered with military stuff too, and fond of shooting at people from a safe distance, disgusting habit.

[pelsar]

8. shooting at people from a safe distance

actually its a pretty good habit if one is doing the shooting.....not much sense in putting on the bayonet and charging if one doesnt have to.....one tends to live longer this way.

[ShortnFiery]

9. Dropping bombs from Jets at thousands of feet high

is, IMO, the ultimate form of cowardice ... truly chicken shit when the enemy has NO Air Force.

Does either the USA or Israeli leadership have no shame? :cry:

[pelsar]

14. the goal....

is to win....not to forgo ones advantages so that its a 'fair fight".....

you've seen too many movies..in real life the guy doesnt put down his gun so they can beat each other up, in real life the guy with the gun just shoots


you tell me, if a guy was coming at you with a knife, you would put down your gun, take out your knife so it would be "fair".......after all, you wouldnt want to be "chicken"

[bemildred]

16. No shit? So anything is OK? nt

[ShortnFiery]

21. If I was a pilot, young and nationalistic ... hopeful and caring ...

I would have nightmares upon return from war. As I aged into my 30s, the images of the innocents whom I've killed will return to haught me for the rest of my life.

Such behavior, even when justified (your enemy is close and shooting at you) is an inhumane act.

War is terrorism. Every one who participates will come back a shell of a man they were in the past.

The continued killing and dying is so wrong. Plus NO ONE SIDE truly *WINS.*

I conducted research on Post Traumatic Stress Disorder On USA and Israeli troops from the Vietnam War up until 1990. Albeit there are few physical wounds, many of the Israeli troops will return with profound Mental Health Issues (addiction, alcoholism, insomnia, defiant behavior disorders, etc.)

Again, no one side truly wins in WAR.

The Power Brokers and War Profiteers benefit greatly, but everyone else is left to grieve over NEEDLESS killing of loved ones.

[bemildred]

10. I will forgo the moralizing if you will too ... nt

[pelsar]

15. why....

i have no problem with the moral issues involved.....they are always there and have to be dealt with head on.

Some i've already faced and others i havent..it doesnt mean that one doesnt/cant /should nt go over them?

the ones i find most humerous are the ones that say israel shouldnt use tanks or planes because their "cowards".....i find that a rather strange one....i doubt anybody will be willing to do the same in their own real life....get rid of their advantages so that they are more vunerable. If you would like we can find some real world scenarios and you can show me how you willing dropped your advantage so it was "fairer"



maybe israelis shouldnt stay in bombshelters?...maybe they shouldnt use machine guns that shoot straighter than the AK47?....

[bemildred]

17. You say Hiz'bullah is "disgusting" for "hiding among women and children".

And then you whine about jet pilots - who shoot into cities in perfect safety - being called cowards. You like to dish it out, but you don't have the moral integrity to take it when it's deserved.

How is "disgusting" not a moral complaint? It's really a clever bit of propaganda, that horseshit about "hiding behind women and children". It combines the "they don't respect their women and children" canard with the "they don't respect human life like we do" canard and an accusation of cowardice and a bit of "they don't fight fair". That last really smacks of a bit of embarassment about ones own performance.

No serious historian would give this sort of drivel a second look without some real evidence, something that actually can be documented; these sort of lies and propaganda about ones enemies are as old as the hills and as hackneyed as a teen-age romance.

[sabbat hunter]

18. if you ask a pilot

they arent shooting from perfect safety. there are always risks in flying fighter/bombers.

[bemildred]

19. The F-16s are used precisely because they are '"safe".

It is true that flying a military jet is not necessarily a risk-free job, but when the enemy's air-defenses are non-existant or minimal it's way better than ground combat.

[pelsar]

22. no you misunderstood....

whether hizballa hides behind women and children to fight is their choice.....however neither they "nor others i.e. people here, should complain when they get killed....the guilty party is hizballa. I may not like it, but i have no "moral problem" with the IDF blowing up a house that houses people storing and shooting rockets.

there have been quite a few videos showing the shooting of katushas as well as kassams from apt buildings and other neighborhoods, arms found in mosques etc....so much for the "drivel".


..i guess the real cowards must be hizballa, they shoot missles at cities randomly, without risking anything at all.

[bemildred]

23. I understand fine.

I agree entirely about Hiz'bullah and the rockets, but that's how it is in war, the end justifies the means. Right?

[pelsar]

24. the end justifies the means. Right

thats too simplistic...dropping an A bomb would be extreme..not using ones advantages would be plain stuiped and suicidal.....we're neither

[bemildred]

11. Israeli soldiers find combat 'harder than expected'

There's a signpost at the northern most tip of the Israeli coast that points one way to Beirut, the other way to Jerusalem.

It didn't need the arrows yesterday to show which way was which. All you had to do was close your eyes and listen. From somewhere south came a relentless barrage of artillery fire - a military orchestra of booming Howitzers and tanks. Then from the north, the distant sound of an explosion somewhere, perhaps another Lebanese building or guerrilla stronghold crumbling under fire.

By the time the Israelis had finished their colossal bombardment of some key border targets yesterday, you wondered if there could be anything left to shoot at.

But of course, there was. As ground troops seized an area described by an Israeli General as 'the capital of Hezbollah', the bangs began to come back the other way. Clearly, the rocket launchers were still active. And so, after an uncommon lull of nearly 15 hours yesterday, Haifa and other parts of northern Israel were once again struck by a wave of Katyushas.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=397438&in_page_id=1770

[bemildred]

12. Young Israeli Soldiers Anxious About Combat

ISRAEL’S NORTHERN BORDER, July 24 — Ohad, 22, is a narrow faced warrior who has spent four years in the Israeli Army and operated tanks in the Palestinian territories, tough duty for any soldier. But going across the Lebanese border brought a new set of anxieties.

Having worked on the border before, he was familiar with the Hezbollah fighters he would be facing. Hezbollah positions and Israeli positions had been close enough for soldiers on each side to recognize the faces on the other, he said. But southern Lebanon itself was a forbidding place, known only from the hearsay of other wars.

“We didn’t know what to expect,” Ohad said. “When you go to fight in a new territory that you only know from stories or pictures, it’s scary.”

Ohad is a taciturn man, and did not seem to notice when a Katyusha rocket slammed with a blast into a nearby hillside, leaving a faint contrail and a plume of dust.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/24/world/middleeast/24cnd-voices.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

[bemildred]

13. Hezbollah impressive in battle, Israeli soldiers say

ON ISRAEL'S BORDER WITH LEBANON - The boys of war - Ohad, 22, Yakov 19, Yair, 21, and Yaron, 19 - stood shy and dust-grimed in front of their massive tank and said the Hezbollah militants they faced in the bitter battle for the village of Maroun al-Ras in Lebanon were tough and skilled.

The commander of the Merkava tank, Lieutenant Ohad - only first names were allowed for security reasons - said, with a distinct lack of swagger, "they were very good."

As his tank entered the village just before sunrise last Thursday in the fiercest battle to date, it was hit by an anti-tank missile. The tank's gunner was wounded. Fire was coming from every direction. "When the fighting started the opposition was very strong," he said. Gradually, in street to street fighting the Israelis gained the upper hand, but not before five of its soldiers were killed there.

Since Israel began its incursions last week, it has found Hezbollah in south Lebanon well dug in, tactically deployed and highly committed. Although the Israeli Defense Force denies it, some military affairs experts say, it has been a harder, slower-moving slog than originally anticipated.

http://www.sanluisobispo.com/mld/sanluisobispo/news/world/15112197.htm

[ShortnFiery]

20. Propaganda and Disinformation ...

to give Israel the green light to go ahead and DESTROY all of Lebanon's infrastructure, i.e., and a whole lotta innocent civilians at the same time.

I'm disgusted. :(