Why is Israel where it is?

[napi21]

I admit I didn't pay much attenton in history class when I was in school, but I keep hearing about the UN designating a specific territory back in the 60's and designating it as Isreal. It seems the arab countries have never accepted that decision, so there is constant fighting a killing.

Why did they choose a piece of arab land? Why not a piece of Germany or Ireland, orthe Island of Cypress, or somewhere else?

[acmavm]

1. Other locations were suggested.

They just weren't the Holy Land.

[villager]

2. because that's where Israel always was, going back thousands of years

I'm not saying that to "argue," per a lot of the "discussions" here on DU, just simply pointing out that historically, that's where Israel has always been.

The Romans took over in 70 A.D., the Ottoman Turks after that, the Brits after that -- all the way down to the present vicious impasse.

[atreides1]

27. Actually Israel became a divided state long before the Romans

United Monarchy
Main article: United Monarchy
The Kingdom of Judah is one of two successor states to the older Kingdom of Israel, which existed from around 1030 BCE-920 BCE. The other successor state also bears the name Kingdom of Israel.


Divided Monarchy

Kingdom of Israel

The Kingdom of Israel, or Northern Kingdom, existed as an independent state from about 930 BCE until around 720 BCE when it was conquered by the Assyrian Empire.


Kingdom of Judah
When the disruption took place at Shechem, at first only the tribe of Judah followed the house of David. But very soon after the tribe of Benjamin joined the tribe of Judah, and Jerusalem became the capital of the new kingdom (Joshua 18:28), which was called the kingdom of Judah.

729-687 BCE. Reign of king Hezekiah of Judah. He is noted in the Bible for initiating reforms that outlawed, or enforced Jewish laws against, idolatry (in this case, the worship of Ba'alim and/or Asherah, among other traditional Near Eastern divinities). <1> 2 Kings 18-20
c. 705 BCE Siloam inscription in Old Hebrew alphabet
687-638 BCE. Reign of king Manasseh of Judah, sacrificed his son to Molech, 2 Kings 21.
638-637 BCE. Reign of king Amon.
These two kings reversed Hezekiah's reforms and officially revived idolatry. According to later rabbinical accounts, Manasseh placed a grotesque, four-faced idol in the Holy of Holies.

637-607 BCE. The reign of king Josiah was accompanied by a religious reformation. According to the Bible, while repairs were made on the Temple, a 'Book of the Law' was discovered (possibly the book of Deuteronomy). <2> See also 1 Kings 13, 2 Kings 22-23 , 2 Chr 34-35
587 BCE. Babylon, under king Nebuchadnezzar II, seized Jerusalem. The First Temple was destroyed; the date was the 9th of Av, or Tisha B'Av. <3>
For the first sixty years, the kings of Judah aimed at re-establishing their authority over the kingdom of the other ten tribes, so that there was a state of perpetual war between them. For the following eighty years, there was no open war between them. For the most part, they were in friendly alliance, co-operating against their common enemies, especially against Damascus. After the destruction of Israel, Judah continued to exist for about a century and a half until its final overthrow in (586 BCE) by Nebuzar-adan, who was captain of Nebuchadnezzar's body-guard (2 Kings 25:8-21), an event which also saw the destruction of the First Temple.


So technically the United Kingdom of Israel ceased to exist in 920 BCE, and the divided Kingdom of Israel ceased to exist in 720 BCE.

And finally the Kingdom of Judah was overthrown in 586 BCE!


Iudaea was also the stage of three major rebellions against the Romans. They were (see Jewish-Roman wars for the full account):

66-70 - first rebellion, followed by the destruction of Herod's Temple and the siege of Jerusalem (see Great Jewish Revolt, Josephus)
115-117 - second rebellion, called Kitos War, due to excessive taxation
132-135 - third rebellion, Bar Kokhba's revolt
Following the suppression of Bar Kokhba's revolt, the emperor Hadrian changed the name of the province to Syria Palaestina (term originally coined by Herodotus) and Jerusalem became Aelia Capitolina in order to humiliate the Jewish population by attempting to erase their historical ties to the region. The other portions became the provinces of Galilee, Samaria, and Peraea.



By the 20th century there was no Israel, even the British called it Palestine.

[villager]

28. all true, of course, but that's still where Jerusalem is

and "Jerusalem" loomed large in the collective Jewish imagination, during the exiles, as "home."

"Jerusalem" also meant, to some degree, "Israel" in a larger sense.

[TahitiNut]

33. Tribal, right? More a question of who than where, right?

To what degree were the peoples in this area agrarian, nomadic, herdsmen, or agriculturalists?

The history of Europe is border and boundary-centric primarily because of totalitarian agricultralism. Nomadic peoples (e.g. the Romani) were marginalized and disenfranchised far earlier and more completely than elsewhere except perhaps what's today called China. People in the Middle East (and North America, interestingly) did not have the same geopolitical paradigm at all.

[rusty charly]

3. long island, ny?

crown heights, brooklyn?

i'd really love some place in, say, alabama, just to see what would happen to the christian right "defend israel" crowd.

[slackmaster]

4. Golda Meir pegged it

It's the only place in the Middle East that has no oil.

[Misskittycat]

29. and a big chunk of it (the Negev) is miserable desert. n/t

[Waya]

5. Goes back to biblical times....

....Abraham, the Promised Land, Judea, Twelve Tribes of Israel........that sort of thing.....

[izzie]

22. Who had it before that?

I am sure the Indians will not get back the USA so I guess I need not worry. The Jewish people had been in that spot so long I think they felt they should have it even if it was Arab land. Can any one think that Germany would have let them have some of Germany. And we would not let even a ship load of Jewish people land here and sent them back. We are not very nice to each other are we? I think they should have some land but it sure is not what we would call a democracy. If your are not jewish there are strings. I do not blame them their army as I would live in fear if I was Jewish and lived in the middle of all those people who hated me, or the zealots hate them in the Arab world.As long as I have been reading papers this same stuff has been going on. I always feel lucky to be an Am. when I see such stuff and how people have to live. I do not envy one of them.

[johnaries]

37. The Canaanites, of course!

The Israelites laid claim to the land because "God promised it to them." So they brought the walls of Jericho down.

Nevertheless, they lived there for thousands of years, and it is considered their ancestral home.

[bloom]

38. Natufia?, Retjenu, Canaan, United Babylonia, - also known as the Levant

Following the links at wiki-
______________________

The Stone age

Natufian culture

The Natufian culture existed in the Mediterranean region of the Levant. It was an Epipalaeolithic culture, but unusual in that it established permanent settlements even before the introduction of agriculture. The Natufians are likely to have been the ancestors of the builders of the first Neolithic settlements of the region, which may have been the earliest in the world. There is also evidence that the Natufians themselves had already begun deliberate cultivation of cereals. They were certainly making use of wild grasses. The Natufians chose central places to stay so that the wild cereals could be harvested in all three zones. However, due to climate changes, which produced drier climate, the Natufians were forced to stay in areas with permanent water. Evidence for the storage of the grain can also be seen at some sites. The Natufians hunted gazelles as well as harvesting wild grasses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natufian_culture

The Bronze age

The first cities started developing in southern Mesopotamia during the 4th millennium BC. With these ties of religion began to replace ties of kinship as the basis for society. Each city had a patron god, worshipped in a massive central temple called a ziggurat, and was ruled by a priest-king (ishakku). Society became more segmented and specialized and capable of coordinated projects like irrigation and warfare.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Levant

Today "Levant" is most typically used by archaeologists and historians with reference to the prehistory and the ancient and medieval history of the region, as when discussing the Crusades. But the term is still employed occasionally to refer to modern or contemporary events, peoples, states, or parts of states in the same region, namely Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, Palestine or Syria.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levant

The ancient Egyptians called the Levant Retjenu.

During the 2nd millennium BC the name Kan'an, favoured in Egyptian usage, was used for a province of the Egyptian empire bounded on the west by the Mediterranean Sea, on the north by the Pass of Hamath in southern Lebanon, on the east by the Jordan Valley and on the south by a line extended from the Dead Sea to the Gaza area. This region corresponds closely to the description given in the Hebrew Bible, in Numbers 34.1–12.

Canaan in Mesopotamian inscriptions

Canaan is mentioned in a document from the 18th century BC found in the ruins of Mari, a former Sumerian outpost in Syria. Apparently Canaan at this time existed as a distinct political entity (probably a loose confederation of city-states).

Soon after this, the great empire-builder and law-giver Hammurabi (1728 BC-1686 BC), first king of a united Babylonia, extended Babylonian influence over Canaan and Syria. E. Schrader (Cuneiform Inscriptions and the Old Testament, vol II (1888), pp 299ff) associated Hammurabi with the Amraphel of Genesis, but according to The Oxford Companion to the Bible this view has been largely abandoned in recent years.

Tablets found in the Mesopotamian city of Nuzi use the term Kinahnu ("Canaan") as a synonym for red or purple dye, apparently a renowned Canaanite export commodity. The dyes were likely named after their place of origin (much as "champagne" is both a product, and the name of the region where it is produced). The purple cloth of Tyre in Phoenicia was well known far and wide.

Archaeological excavations of a number of sites later identified as Canaanite, show that prosperity of the region reached its apogee during this Middle Bronze Age period. In the north the cities of Yamkhad and Qatna were hegemons of important confederacies and it would appear that Biblical Hazor was the chief city of another important coalition in the south.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaan
________________________________

The armies of Babylonia were well-disciplined, and they conquered the city-states of Isin, Elam, and Uruk, and the strong Kingdom of Mari. The rule of Babylon was even obeyed as far as the shores of the Mediterranean. But Mesopotamia had no clear boundaries, making it vulnerable to attack. Trade and culture thrived for 150 years, until the fall of Babylon in 1595 BC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian

In the centuries preceding the appearance of the Biblical Hebrews, Canaan and Syria became tributary to the Egyptian Pharaohs, although domination by the sovereign power was not so strong as to prevent frequent local rebellions and inter-city struggles. Under Thutmose III (1479 BC-1426 BC) and Amenhotep II (1427 BC-1400 BC), the regular presence of the strong hand of the Egyptian ruler and his armies kept the Syrians and Canaanites sufficiently loyal. The reign of Amenhotep III, however, was not quite so tranquil for the Asiatic province. It is believed that turbulent chiefs began to seek their opportunities, though as a rule, could not find them without the help of a neighboring king. The boldest of the disaffected nobles was Aziru, son of Abd-Ashirta, a prince of Amurru, who even before the death of Amenhotep III, endeavoured to extend his power into the plain of Damascus. Akizzi, governor of Katna (near Hamath), reported this to the Pharaoh, who seems to have sought to frustrate his attempts. In the next reign, however, both father and son caused infinite trouble to loyal servants of Egypt like Rib-Addi, governor of Gubla (Gebal), not the least through transferring loyalty from the Egyptian crown to that of the expanding neighbouring Hittites under Suppiluliuma I....

Most interesting is the mention of troublesome groups called sometimes SA-GAZ (a Sumerian ideogram glossed as "brigand" in Akkadian), and sometimes Habiri (an Akkadian word). These Habiri are believed by some to signify generally all the nomadic tribes known as "Hebrews", and particularly the early Israelites, who sought to appropriate the fertile region for themselves. The term may also include other related peoples such as the Moabites, Ammonites and Edomites, or may not be an ethnonym at all...

The Bible indicates that God cautioned the Israelites against the sexual depravities of the Canaanites and their fertility cult (Leviticus 18:27). Thus the land of the Canaanites (specifically the Amorites, Hivites, Hethites, Girgashites and Jebusites) was deemed suitable for conquest by the Israelites partly on moral grounds. Deuteronomy 20:16-17, one of the 613 mitzvot, prescribes that no inhabitants of the cities of six Canaanite nations, the same as mentioned in 7:1, minus the Girgashites, are to be left alive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaan
________________________________

Before and during the early Hebrew settlements in the region, the land was called Canaan (first recorded in Assyrian Akkadian as Kinahnu), and its indigenous people were the Canaanites. The Phœnicians, who spoke a Canaanite language at their Mediterranean ports, also called themselves and their land Canaan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_Levant
________________________________

Looking @ Languages


Akkadian (liš?num akkad?tum) was a Semitic language (part of the greater Afro-Asiatic language family) spoken in ancient Mesopotamia, particularly by the Assyrians and Babylonians. The earliest attested Semitic language, it used the cuneiform writing system derived ultimately from ancient Sumerian, an unrelated, non-Semitic language. The name of the language is derived from the city of Akkad, a major center of Mesopotamian civilization.

Akkadian is divided into several varieties based on geography and historical period:
Old Akkadian - 2500 – 1950 BCE
Old Babylonian/Old Assyrian - 1950 – 1530 BCE
Middle Babylonian/Middle Assyrian - 1530 – 1000 BCE
Neo-Babylonian/Neo-Assyrian - 1000 – 600 BCE
Late Babylonian - 600 BCE – 100 CE

Akkadian scribes wrote the language using cuneiform script, an earlier writing system devised by the Sumerians using wedge-shaped signs pressed in wet clay. As employed by Akkadian scribes the adapted cuneiform script could represent either (a) Sumerian logograms (i.e. picture-based characters representing entire words), (b) Sumerian syllables, (c) Akkadian syllables, or (d) phonetic complements. Cuneiform was in many ways unsuited to Akkadian: among its flaws was its inability to represent important phonemes in Semitic, including a glottal stop, pharyngeals, and emphatic consonants. In addition, cuneiform was a syllabary writing system — i.e. a consonant plus vowel comprised one writing unit — frequently inappropriate for a Semitic language made up of triconsonantal roots (i.e. three consonants minus any vowels)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akkadian_language

________________________________

The Semitic family is a member of the larger Afro-Asiatic family, all the other five or more branches of which are based in Africa. Largely for this reason (on the basis of linguistic migration theory), Proto-Semitic is now widely believed to have first arrived in the Middle East from Africa around the 4th millennium BC<1><2>, although other linguists argue that, instead, Proto-Afro-Asiatic originated in the Middle East, and Semitic was the only branch to stay put<3>. In any event, once it appeared in the Middle East, Proto-Semitic spread outwards from its heartland in the Arabian Peninsula and the southern Levant. When written records begin in the mid 3rd millennium BC, the Semitic-speaking Akkadians and Amorites were entering Mesopotamia from the deserts to the west, and were probably already present in places such as Ebla in Syria.

Living Semitic languages by number of speakers

Arabic — 206,000,000
Amharic — 27,000,000
Hebrew — 7,500,000
Tigrinya — 6,750,000
Silt'e – 830,000
Tigre — 800,000
Neo-Aramaic — 605,000
Sebat Bet Gurage — 440,000
Maltese — 410,000
Syriac — 400,000
South Arabian languages — 360,000
Inor – 280,000
Soddo — 250,000
Harari-21 283

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_languages

[OneBlueSky]

6. should have just given them Montana . . . n/t

.

[liberalpragmatist]

7. That's where the early Zionists settled and it's the ancestral Jewish home

The idea was for a Jewish homeland and later a Jewish state, and because the ancestral Jewish homeland was in the Holy Land, that's where early settlement went.

The first wave of immigrants - the First Aliyah - took place under the Ottoman Empire in the late 1800s by Jews fleeing pogroms in Russia. The initial ones were more assimilationist; further waves of immigration later took place.

By 1948, the population was 1/3 Jewish, with Jews concentrated along the coast and around Jerusalem. By this point, the Zionist movement was firmly behind the creation of a "Jewish state."

There had at other times been other proposals for a Jewish state; some made the suggestion of the Sinai, which was relatively depopulated and close to Palestine. Others proposed Australia's Northern Territories. The most serious other option was the so-called "Uganda option" in which Britain offered the Zionists a chunk of territory in what's now actually Kenya; the idea was seriously entertained and even Theodore Herzl - the leading proponent of a Jewish state - supported it, either as an interim state, as an initial Jewish state to be eventually joined by a second one in Palestine, or as the only explicitly Jewish state. In fact, in hindsight, some Israelis and Jewish historians have said the if the idea had been accepted, millions of Holocaust victims could have been saved. Nevertheless, it was rejected and the focus remained on Palestine, because it was the original homeland of the Jewish people. (Granted, that was nearly 2000 years ago.)

This entry covers it pretty well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Zionism

[TahitiNut]

8. Is there an "ancestral Christian home"??

:eyes:

[Taxloss]

10. Yup. Israel. n/t

[megatherium]

30. Israel is where Christianity originated. But Christianity

eventually spread to encompass the Roman Empire. The Roman Catholic Church, which is sovereign in the Vatican, is the remnant of this. The Roman Catholic Church is still the majority of all of Christianity. So one could argue Rome is the homeland of Christianity, but of course, Eastern Orthodox Christians and Protestants would vehemently contest this.

Much of the originally Christian lands are now Muslim. But Islam spread in a series of military conquests in the 7th through 9th centuries. The medieval Crusades were an attempt to regain originally Christian lands, in particular the Holy Land (modern Israel). Christians held these lands for about 75 years. Modern Muslims expect Israel will last about as long, as a non-Muslim state.

[liberalpragmatist]

19. Well, not the same extent

Christians don't have the same sense of being a common people as Jews do; moreover, Judaism is more exclusive (historically rejecting conversions, for instance). Christians don't consider themselves to all be the same ethnic group or the same "people." And since most people came to Christianity through conversion, there isn't a sense of common descent. With the Jewish community all of that is true, so it isn't an entirely analogous situation.

I'm fully aware that the creation of Israel was in many ways a big injustice to the Palestinians and if you've read any of my posts you'll see that I'm hardly a "rah-rah" Israel defender but am actually quite critical of it. At the same time, I think I should be fair in explaining the justification for a Jewish state in Palestine.

[napi21]

14. OK, so if it is their original territory, why are so many

claiming that the Jews stole it? As far as I can tell, the constant fighting is over occupation. Sometimes it's the Gaza strip, another time it's about Jerusalem....

If they were always there, what did the UN agreement really do?

[liberalpragmatist]

25. They weren't always there

There was a Jewish community in Palestine from ancient times (most of whom actually opposed Zionist settlement in Palestine because they felt it jeopardized their relations with the Arabs), but the overwhelming majority was Arab - mostly Muslims, but a large Christian minority along with minorities of Circassians, Armenians, and Turks.

By 1911 for instance, the population was still only 10-15% Jewish.

So the conflict was one essentially over settlers. Most of the Jewish immigration came in the first half of the 20th Century then again after Israel was established.

By 1948, the population was 1/3 Jewish. The UN partition plan basically split the land in half, declared Jerusalem an international city and called for both states to be demilitarized, and a common currency. This was the plan:



The Arabs rejected it because Jews only owned 6-7% of the territory and formed 1/3 of the population, but got 55% of the land. Moreover, the Arabs complained, they were never consulted.

The current fighting is largely over Israel's control of the Gaza and the West Bank - Palestinian-populated territories that Israel grabbed in the 1967 Six-Day War; most Palestinians want to form a Palestinian state out of those territories, with a capital in East Jerusalem (which was part of the West Bank and not part of Israel until after 1967); the rejectionists in Hamas and among more radical members of Palestinian society want all of Israel to be destroyed because they see it as a colonial enterprise - a foreign settlement that stole land from the original inhabitants.

[Taxloss]

9. Yeah, because Cyprus isn't disputed ...

It's not simply "Arab land", its land that is at the heart of three global religions. That area has always been known as Israel, and subject to successive waves of migrations and the rise and decline of religions and states. In 1945 it was a post-colonial political vacuum. There are a hell of a lot of Christians there as well, you know.

[genie_weenie]

15. Actually Cyprus is highly disputed

and has nearly been the cause of several Wars between Turkey and Greece since at least 1974.

[Taxloss]

20. I know.

I was being sarcastic. ;)

[genie_weenie]

24. Oh sorry. All apologies.

It's just I've read too many posts in which people can not look at the Israel/ME situation through the looking glass that almost every square inch of the World (that can support man) has been contested over at one point or another.

:toast:

[Finder]

11. The Temples in Jerusalem...n/t

Jerusalem and the surrounding area has always been the center of conflict for thousands of years. Whether it be Persians, Greeks, Romans, Christians, Muslims, or Jews at the center, Jerusalem has always been the prize.

Making the city of Jerusalem UN headquarters and under the administration of the world body would ease tensions.IMO

[Taoschick]

12. It's a little complicated

The history of Israel as a nation goes all the way back to the fall of the Ottoman empire. The UN didn't create Israel and the rest of the middle east, that was done by the league of nations back in 1922. The borders for most of the modern day middle east were drawn by the League of Nations from the spoils of the Ottoman empire. In a sense, Israel, Syria, Saudia Arabia, Jordan, Lebanon, etc... were all created nations. They were apportioned to influential Arab tribal leaders for their support in defeating the Ottomans. The Jews were given "Israel" because Europe and the USA didn't want to have to deal with them. As long as they were carving up brand new countries, they figured they could throw the Jews a bone, so to speak.

[liberalpragmatist]

26. Israel wasn't established until 1948

A Palestine "mandate" was drawn for the British to rule but the ultimate fate of that territory remained unresolved for another 25 years. They did promise the Jews a Jewish "homeland" in that territory, but the precise formulation wasn't clear until much later.

[Little Star]

13. Where was the original home of the Palestinians?

[Igel]

16. It's where they were going.

Secular Zionists had an easier time when they could sell the idea as going home. Religious Jews had an easier time justifying returning to Judaea, the Promised Land. "Next year in Jerusalem" was a common part of the Seder each Passover.

Groups in Europe were raising money for buying land for immigrants to Palestine, even as the Zionist project was getting off the ground. The Zionists discussed other options, partly because they realized the Ottomans had no love for Jews and wanted some homeland, but the train had largely left the station. All that was needed was non-Ottoman control of the area, so that Jews could more easily buy land.

Unfortunately, they found that the Palestinians also believed that Muslims had been given the land by God.

[Norquist Nemesis]

17. From PBS site...

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/shows/suicide/timeline2.html
The violence abated with the outbreak of World War II in 1939, as Arabs and Jews from British Palestine joined the Allied forces, and British authorities freed underground Jewish leaders. But growing knowledge of the Holocaust -- the Nazi genocide of roughly six million Jews -- added still more urgency to the Jewish cause for a national homeland. In 1942, leading Zionists met in New York to formulate plans for a Jewish state. And by 1944, Jewish guerilla groups had broken their truce with British authorities and resumed bombings and other terror attacks, culminating in the assassination in Cairo of Lord Moyne, British Secretary of State in the Middle East. Meanwhile, the ethno-nationalist plans of Arabs were developing apace. In 1944-45 seven Arab states and one Palestinian representative agreed to the Alexandria Protocol and formed the Arab League, forming a unified opposition both to further development of a Jewish homeland in British Palestine and to intervention of foreign powers in the area.

Rapid change and open warfare followed World War II. The United States put increasing pressure on the British to allow Jewish refugees into Palestine, but the British refused, acceding to Arab demands. Soon after, in 1947, Britain passed the Mandate over Palestine to the United Nations, which proposed a partition plan allocating roughly 44 percent of the area for an Arab state and 56 percent for a Jewish state, with Jerusalem under international administration. The U.N. General Assembly accepted the plan, as did the Jews. But the Arabs did not, and the plan was never implemented. Tensions over the potential for a Jewish state ran at their highest, and in late 1947, irregular Palestinian fighting units and underground Jewish groups carried out increasingly direct, militaristic attacks, including a Palestinian siege of Jerusalem.

The conflict came to a head when, in May of 1948, a Jewish state of Israel was declared, Britain withdrew its forces, and Arab armies from five neighboring countries invaded. The 1948 War (known to Israelis as the War of Independence) proceeded haltingly until Israelis, aided by clandestine arms shipments, repelled the Arab forces and broke the blockade of Jerusalem. The fighting created a wave of Palestinian refugees, numbering between 500,000 and 800,000, and came to be known as al-Nakba ("the Catastrophe") to Palestinians.

At then end of this short but decisive war, the 1949 Armistice established Israel's boundary well beyond that outlined by the U.N. partition plan, encompassing roughly 75 percent of formerly British Palestine. The West Bank would be controlled by Jordan, the Gaza Strip by Egypt, and the city of Jerusalem was divided between the western Israeli portion and the eastern Arab section. Israel's national boundary came to be known as the "Green Line." No permanent peace treaty was signed by the Arab nations, which refused to recognize Israel's existence.

[genie_weenie]

18. How does one determine land ownership?

All land in the world has been won through force at one time.

[undeterred]

21. Its midpoint to the garden of Eden, Mecca, and the Vatican.

You can see why everyone wants it. :shrug:

[11cents]

23. "Back in the 60's?"

You totally weren't paying attention. Or else you're one of the multitude who thinks that history is what happened "back before I was born" and little things like which decade is for nitpickers.

Or, um, have you heard of the Bible and thought about where its narrative took place and where it was compiled? Regardless of whether you think Israel should have established where it is, is it really your notion that the choice of location was entirely random?

[napi21]

32. I'm sorry, I guess I was wrong on the 60"s statement. I thought

I heard that statement on CNN by someone when they were talking aout the UN decision to create Israel. I asked the original question because I really wanted to know. Until reading a lot of the answers here, all I have heard was that the UN had designated this particular territory as Israel, and since noone seems to have a resolution to the constant fighting I wanted to know how that decision was made, and if it seemed possible that there will EVER be an end to the conflict!

Your comment about the Bible and where its narrative took place is an interesting one. I assume you mean that is one of the reasons supporting Israel being where it is. I question that because all Christian religions could make the same claim, don't you think?

I have NO opinion of where Israel should be. The only reason for my question was to look for some solution to the insanity of constant war!

[11cents]

34. No, my point about the Bible...

...was simply that it wasn't some huge coincidence that Jews had been immigrating to the area that is now Israel in significant numbers for decades before the creation of the state, or that there had been smaller Jewish communities there all along. This area is where Jews come from. Mention of it is frequent in Jewish religious practice. A sense of exile had been a constant of Jewish life for two millenia. It's sorta basic -- again, regardless of one's opinion about Israel and its creation, its establishment in 1948 in that particular place wasn't just some notion that the UN had dreamed up the previous week.

[oberliner]

35. a little info

It's from wikipedia but it might be a good starting point:

The first wave of modern immigration to Israel, or Aliyah (עלייה) started in 1881 as Jews fled persecution, or followed the Socialist Zionist ideas of Moses Hess and others of "redemption of the soil." Jews bought land from Ottoman and individual Arab landholders. After Jews established agricultural settlements, tensions erupted between the Jews and Arabs.

Theodor Herzl (1860–1904), an Austrian Jew, founded the Zionist movement. In 1896, he published Der Judenstaat (The Jewish State), in which he called for the establishment of a national Jewish state. The following year he helped convene the first World Zionist Congress.

The establishment of Zionism led to the Second Aliyah (1904–1914) with the influx of around 40,000 Jews. In 1917, the British Foreign Secretary Arthur J. Balfour issued the Balfour Declaration that "view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people." In 1920, Palestine became a League of Nations mandate administered by Britain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel#Historical_roots

[Totallybushed]

31. Israel is the historical

homeland of the Jews. Jews ahve always lived there.

[cracksquirrel]

36. Above posters have covered this well

I have to say, I'm suprised and encouraged by the civility and informative nature of this thread, given the subject matter and how threads like this usually devolve here...

[Lithos]

39. Locking

I think the question has been answered.

Lithos
DU Moderator