Question: Just out of curiosity, if anyone here knows,

[Freedom_from_Chains]

when the U.N. decided to give the land now called Israel to the displaced Jews throughout Europe, did anyone ask any of the Arab countries what they thought about that?

[Fredda Weinberg]

1. Yeah, they attacked on all fronts the day the mandate was lifted

And the British left. The vote for establishing the state wasn't exactly close, but you can imagine how many countries voted "no."

[Freedom_from_Chains]

2. What mandate? n/t

[Fredda Weinberg]

3. The British controlled the territory as mandated by the UN

The Ottoman Empire was defeated and the territories came under British or French interests. The place divided by the UN in '48 was under British control; they controlled immigration of Jewish refugees and before the state of Israel was established, many Jews tried to flee persecution in Europe but were turned away.

[whyverne]

4. It was like giving Arizona back to the Indians.

A nice gesture but many didn't take it too well and still don't. Some say that if FDR had lived it would not have gone down as it did. I'm not taking sides but it's an interesting notion. What would the Middle East be like without the creation of Israel?

[Freedom_from_Chains]

5. But what I am wondering is did anyone ever ask the Arab states

what they thought about, or did we just consider their opinion as being so irrelevant that we didn't bother to ask?

[jrd200x]

6. Yes, there were several summits and sessions with all involved

The Arabs were not happy with the decision.

The Israeli's were happy to live with the Arabs but the Arabs started blowing thing up right away.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

7. Huh, thanks for the info. n/t

[cool user name]

23. That's not how it went down.

Why should the Arabs of Palestine give part of their country to immigrants from Europe to form their own state?

There were several summits to call for a binational state which some Jews and some Arabs were for.

However, Zionists wanted a Jewish state in land that didn't belong to them. Eventually, with the US intimadation, the UN voted and called for the establishment of the Jewish state.

Most of the ethnic cleansing of the indigenous Arabs was already underway by this time.

[TomClash]

26. Actually Mandatory Palestine was

divided into two states - one arab and one jewish - by the UN Resolution 181 passed by the GA in 1947. You can imagine the arab reaction where they owned virtually all of the land in Palestine and made up 2/3 of the population.

[Igel]

8. Why?

The land now called Israel wasn't given to the Jews. Some was, but some was gained from warfare, with the combined expulsion and fleeing of the Palestinians that left there, both prompted by Arab radio and by fear of the imminent destruction of the Zionists by their fellow Arabs. Nobody wants to say they fled, that would imply cowardice, so their lifestories were all revised to say they were pushed out under threat of their lifes and by force majeure.

It was British controlled land, and it wasn't as though they'd be expelling the land from the Palestinians that owned it; perhaps if they were on state-owned land, but there was nearly none except for waqf territory. Jews would simply be allowed to move there; they'd been buying--and been swindled out of--land there for decades by then. Never a shortage of sellers at the right price.

There were even some cartographical tricks to ensure contiguity of territory--nodes where Palestinian land narrowed to a point, and where Israeli land narrowed to a point.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

10. Why, I'm just curious, considering the current context,

and that is an area of history that I am not familiar with so I was hoping to get a dialog going by people who have more knowledge on the subject than I do.

Thanks for your post.

[Igel]

22. Sorry.

It should have been clear to me, but wasn't.

I'm being far too snarky today.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

28. Apology accepted.

I too have my snarky moments, days, weeks, etc. :hi:

[cool user name]

24. There were no radio calls by the Arabs ..

To the contrary, there were calls for the Palestinians to stay.

This has been confirmed by British and American audio surveillance at the time.

[pelsar]

25. the arabs of haifa left AFTER the fighting stopped....

Palestenian Post: April 1948


http://palestinepostings.blogspot.com/2005_06_12_palestinepostings_archive.html

click on the first article

or do your own searching....
http://jic.tau.ac.il/moreshet/palestineEn.html

(arabs haifa 1948)

[Jim__]

9. Someone posted a link to a short history

Short history

This history tells a somewhat different story from the one some previous replies tell. This history was compiled by Jews for Justice in the Middle East. An excerpt:

The problem with this explanation is that it is simply not true, as the documentary evidence in this booklet will show. What really happened was that the Zionist movement, from the beginning, looked forward to a practically complete dispossession of the indigenous Arab population so that Israel could be a wholly Jewish state, or as much as was possible. Land bought by the Jewish National Fund was held in the name of the Jewish people and could never be sold or even leased back to Arabs (a situation which continues to the present).

[Freedom_from_Chains]

11. Thanks for the link, I will check it out. n/t

[cali]

12. talk about

a one sided, propagandistic 'history'. No wonder that site is on the admin here doesn't allow folks to link to.

[Jim__]

13. I notice you're not challenging any of their facts - n/t

[cali]

14. There's nothing to dispute.

It's opinion. Look, I don't think creating Israel was a good idea, but I don't buy into the evil zionist crap either.

[Jim__]

15. Is the Jewish National Fund fact or opinion?

Was it Zionist policy from the late 19th century that as Jews bought up land it was removed from the pool of land that Arabs can ever buy or lease? If this is a fact, if Jews were permanently removing any land they owned from control of Arabs, is this a racist policy? If Zionists were practicing racist policies against Arabs, does that explain some of the Arab reaction to the Jewish influx? Or, is the post above that claims the Arabs just starting blowing things up (post #6) - a post whose accuracy you didn't challenge - a more accurate description?

[Igel]

29. Yes, and it's the same

racist attitude that many Arab groups have.

For example, Hamas reflects the Islamist thinking of the time: Palestine is waqf, and cannot be sold to Jews or owned by non-Muslims. Howevermuch money changes hands. The reason that now one chunk of Gaza was bought three times, to become the permanent possession of Jews ... and each time was reclaimed by Muslims.

The easily overlooked point is that the Fund bought land. It threatened the owners--absentee, as some claim, or not--with money. The original racism is lost in the controversy: the land was in trust for Muslims, and might be leased but never sold to Jews (and then, only if no Muslim objects); the superior Muslim practice had to hold sway, something secular European Zionists would find laughable.

[TomClash]

27. This excerpt only tells half the story

Some Zionists accepted partition and were not interested in all of Judea and Samaria. Others saw a Greater Israel encompassing all of Palestine.

[Cerridwen]

16. Here is a link to a

short overview of some of the history leading to the formation of and recognition of, an Israeli state: http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistlestop/study_collections/israel/large/israel.htm

Here is a link to the text of the Balfour Declaration to which the above overview refers.

This is a link to immigration policies in existence during WWII, and some more history, which may provide some additional background about various countries' attitudes (?), alliances (?), policies and legislation in regard to Jews displaced before, during and after the war. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/grobim.html

Maybe this will help to answer your question?

[Freedom_from_Chains]

17. Thanks for the link, I will definitely check it out

and I appreciate you posting it so I don't have to wade through a bunch of stuff from a google search that is either not relevant, or bias, to the question I am asking.

:yourock:

[Cerridwen]

18. You bet.

I hope they are a little less on the biased side and a little more on the objective side. It's sure hard to find information that isn't rife with emotion.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

19. You got that right!!!! n/t

[Malikshah]

20. King-Crane Commission-- US began it, but GB and Fr didnt' want

any part of it because they knew the Arab response (in Greater Syria) would be against them

http://www.hri.org/docs/king-crane/

This was all around 1919-- Wilson reportedly never read it as he had a stroke before it was completed.

Regardless- the San Remo Conference carved up the Arab lands of the OE into mandates (barring Egypt which was a protectorate)

After the establishment of the Palestine Mandate, numerous commissions we called for--especially after the 1929 Wailing Wall incident, the Arab revolt of 36-39, etc.

All the key players-- Herbert Samuel, Chaim Weizmann, Robert Wagner, and others played a role in the ongoing process.

The answer from Arab leadership (which should not be equated w/ the arab population) was consistent against what they viewed as colonialism. (Which IMHO it was-- screw the religious veneer--it was clear colonialism)

[LeftistGorilla]

21. The writing was on the wall....

as soon as the Balfour declaration was sent....