So, who doesn't want Hamas to recognize Israel

[eridani]

The current Israeli government, I'd say. Plus the more recalcitrant wing of Hamas. Interesting that all the military action started just as Hamas was moving in a productive direction.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/0A46ECCD-F827-4CAC-A3B8-8267C05406B7.htm


The Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, has threatened to call a referendum unless Hamas resolves differences with his Fatah faction.

The referendum would ask Palestinians whether they accept a document that was drawn up by Fatah and Hamas leaders imprisoned in Israel and that endorses a Palestinian state in the Gaza Strip and West Bank.

The document would amount to a recognition of Israel's right to exist, a major stumbling block for relations between the Hamas-led government and the United States and European Union.

[Behind the Aegis]

1. You'd be wrong.

One of the major things the Israeli and world governments have pushed for is that Hamas would recognize Israel. It is the terrorist wing that refuses.

[eridani]

2. They are outnumbered by more amenable members of Hama

http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2006/06/25/hamas-and-fatah-reach-deal-over-prisoners-peace-plan/

Again, I believe that if Abbas and Fatah prevail upon Hamas to create a national unity government there would be very little standing in the way of international recognition of the PA and a relaxation of the financial stranglehold in which Palestine currently finds itself. Olmert, of course, will be screaming and kicking against such an outcome because it will mean pressure will increase exponentially on him to enter into final status negotiations with Abbas. And the former knows that during final status negotiations with the entire world watching, Israel will feel pressured to give up far more than he currently contemplates giving up under his unilateral plan. This is why he hates the Prisoner’s Document so. Actually, he calls it an irrelevance in studied nonchalance. But hardly anyone is fooled by a pose which even Madonna might admire.

[Behind the Aegis]

3. and...

"Of course, one may question how serious Hamas is about ceasing resistance against the Israeli Occupation on a day when its military wing boasted of a coordinated attack on an IDF outpost along the Gaza-Egypt border (NOT within the Green Line) which killed two Israeli soldiers and three militants. UPDATE: Haaretz in this article said, until a few minutes ago that the Israeli outpost WAS on Israeli soil thus making the attack a violation of the terms of the Prisoner’s Document."

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Behind the Aegis]

6. No.

Only a simplistic view would allow such a conclusion!

[brmdp3123]

10. What a ridiculous, offensive comment.

As if Hezbollah and Hamas are a couple of peace-loving, pacificist organizations.

[Ms. Clio]

4. Here is another article

Although it's nore critical of Abbas.

"A June 3rd poll conducted by Near East Consulting based in Ramallah, Palestine shows that the overwhelming majority of Palestinians support the Prisoner's Agreement, an inter-factional agreement signed by one member each of Fatah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the PFLP, and the DFLP inside Israel's Hadarim prison this past May. (1) The document implicitly recognizes Israel by accepting, among other things, a Palestinian state in the lands occupied by Israel in the June 1967 war."

(snip)

I. Hamas accepts a two-state solution. When asked by Newsweek-Washington Post correspondent Lally Weymouth on 26 February 2006 what agreements Hamas was prepared to honor, the new Hamas Prime Minister, Ismail Haniyeh answered, "the ones that will guarantee the establishment of a Palestinian State with Jerusalem as its capital with 1967 borders." Weymouth went on, "Will you recognize Israel?" to which Haniyeh responded, "If Israel declares that it will give the Palestinian people a state and give them back all their rights then we are ready to recognize them." (5) This view encapsulates the Hamas demand for reciprocity.

In an interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer four days after the PLC elections, the new Hamas Foreign Minister, Mahmoud Zahar (considered the party's hard-liner) remarked, "We can accept to establish our independent state on the area occupied 1967." Like Haniyeh and other Hamas members, Zahar insists that once such a state is established a long-term truce "lasting as long as 10, 20 or 100 years" will ensue ending the state of armed conflict between Israelis and Palestinians. (6)


More here: http://www.counterpunch.org/loewenstein06122006.html

[Behind the Aegis]

7. It is crap.

But, I am sure you knew that it was. What are the "rights" they want recognized? Oh yes..."right of return." They want a Palestine from the "Jordan River to the Sea."

[CuteNFuzzy]

8. There was a peace plan proposed by the Saudis

In which Israel is recognized by all Arab nations, basically the big exchange in the plan was for Israel to return to '67 borders.

Hamas accepted the plan, Israel rejected it. Enough said.

[Behind the Aegis]

9. Show the proposal.

[CuteNFuzzy]

13. you've never heard of it?

[Behind the Aegis]

14. No. Which is why I asked for the proposal. OR at least a link.

[anewdeal]

15. Believe hard enough and you'll see it.

[cool user name]

20. The proposal was given twice ...

Once back in the early 80's and the one back in 2002.

Israel rejected both.

[Little Star]

16. Is this the plan you reference?

The Arab Peace Initiative
March 28, 2002
Saudi Crown prince Abdullah floated an Arab peace plan that was discussed and modified at am Arab League summit conference in Beirut in March of 2002. The original plan called for peace with Israel in return for Israeli withdrawal from all territories. It was announced as such in a very idiosyncratic way, through a New York Times column by Thomas Friedman. In presenting the plan at the Beirut conference, Abdullah added a significant but ambiguous condition: return of the Palestinian refugees. However, he did not specify whether refugees were to be "returned" to Israel or to the Palestinian state that would be created.

The plan as adopted calls for Israeli withdrawal from all territories occupied since 1967 and return of the Palestine refugees to Israel in return for recognition of Israel and normal relations. The difference is that much more emphasis was placed on the refugee issue. A similar plan was offered by Arab states at the armistice negotiations in 1949. The number of refugees to be returned is not specified. A section included at the insistence of Lebanon reads, " Assures the rejection of all forms of Palestinian patriation which conflict with the special circumstances of the Arab host countries" assuaging Lebanese fears of permanent settlement of Palestinians in Lebanon. Inclusion of this clause may indicate that something less than full return of the refugees is contemplated. UN General Assembly Resolution 194, mentioned in the plan, asserts the right of Palestinian refugees who are willing to live in peace with their neighbors to return to Israel. As there are currently over three million such refugees with an exceedingly high birthrate, literal implementation of return would eventually mean the end of the Jewish state of Israel. UN Security Council Resolution 242, passed in 1967, calls for Israeli withdrawal from territories occupied in the war of June 1967, but does not specify "all territories."

On the other hand, unlike either Friedman's account of the plan or the presentation of the plan proposed Abdullah's speech, the Arab Peace Plan adopted on Beirut and presented here specifically mentions "peace" with Israel as well as "normal relations." It states that Arab countries will:

I- Consider the Arab-Israeli conflict ended, and enter into a peace agreement with Israel, and provide security for all the states of the region

II- Establish normal relations with Israel in the context of this comprehensive peace.

http://www.mideastweb.org/saudipeace.htm

[CuteNFuzzy]

17. Yes thats it

[cool user name]

21. I remember something about ...

Right of Return being morphed into compensation instead.

In other words, the Saudi Initiative initially called for Right of Return but then was taken off the table being substituted for compensation.

I'll see if I can find a link.

[dennis4868]

19. Why would Israel accept that?

The terrorist and PLO want Jerusalem and the death to all jews....why give them anything?

[cool user name]

22. Where did you get this information?

The PLO and all of its factions are advocating for East Jerusalem, the West Bank, and Gaza.

They've already signed the Oslo Declaration of Principles. The PLO has long accepted the two state formula.

Not that I'm defending the PLO, but that's much more than Hamas has done though Hamas' more moderate members have considered the two state formula as well as multiple cease fires.

[dennis4868]

24. from statements made.....

the past 45 years only....what do you think they teach their kids in school. Get real about this.

[cool user name]

25. Who's "they" ...

And you do you apply this to every Palestinian?

I could take out Israeli text books "to prove a point" but I do realize that this doesn't encapsulate all Israelis or even the Israeli leadership.

It is you who should strive for more reality.

[dennis4868]

27. No where in the Israeli....

text books does it talk about destroying and wiping the arabs off the face of the earth...I should know this...I went to school in Israel.

Too many people expect Israeli not to defend themselves rom terrorist. I can only imagine if we had terrorist in our country blowing themselves up like they do in Israel. People just do not understand what the Israeli people have to deal with on a daily basis....they are surrounded by many countries who wan them all dead!

[cool user name]

28. Hmmm ...

Neither side is clean when promoting hatred in their schools.

[Selatius]

11. Mahmoud Abbas should call the referendum as soon as possible

It would allow the moderates a voice for once because I feel most Palestinians simply want to live in peace, not try to wipe out Israel.

The only fear I have is groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad applying pressure on the electorate to vote the "right way."

[Behind the Aegis]

12. He should!

The real problem is the OTHER groups who are now involved.

[cool user name]

23. I think it would be a very wise move ...

For Abbas to declare unilaterally, Palestine's borders (in consort with UNR 242). The West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem.

Then they can sue each other for peace and finally hammer out that elusive "final status" that Israel seems to be procrastinating about.

[Igel]

18. Hamas was running into problems.

Abbas was going to call for a referendum that would have put Hamas out of the mainstream. It called for negotiations, and the 'military' and 'political' wings of Hamas started to flap in full fury.

It was running into static as more and more media sources realized that one can have a state of Palestine set up in the WB and Gaza without simultaneously acknowledging that Israel has a right to permanent continued existence. Hamas hedged over that, with claims and counterclaims, denial and innuendo, but it was increasingly clear that they were ok with setting up a state *without* saying Israel had a right to exist. "How could we not recognize its existence?" is different from "We recognize it has a right to exist." Finally the one Hamas rep involved in drawing up the "prisoner's document" bailed, and renounced it.

On the ground, Hamas was involved in running street battles with Fatah figures, and they were starting to target each other's leadership.

Hamas went to a tried and true posture: when confronted with internal divisions and problems, rely on cultural traits to solve the problem. Suddenly, the Zionist entity killed kids. When the humiliation wasn't addressed, call off the ceasefire and be seen as standing as the proud defenders of the poor Palestinians. Participate in some brave feat of daring-do. And, if it causes Arab deaths, well, at least the political problem is solved: to diss Hamas is to bring shame on Palestinians, which means shaming your own, esp. when there's an enemy. Quick: close ranks. If it doesn't cause Arab deaths, you've stilled solved the problems, because people like backing a winner.

Who doesn't want Hamas to recognize Israel's right to exist? Hamas. Talking with Israel serves the goal of looking good, and getting stuff.

In any event, look at the result of the PA's recognizing Israel's right to exist.

[barb162]

26. I believe this document does not recognize Israel's right to exist

and all it does is try to resolve the diffs betweeen Hamas and Fatah. That's a little problem, wouldn't you say.