21 Septembers Ago (Sabra/Shatila, 5,000 word piece)

[tinnypriv]

21 Septembers Ago
Laurie King-Irani, The Electronic Intifada, 16 September 2003

The View from Nowhere: Drifting between states of consciousness 36,000 feet above sea level, I awake to the hum of jet engines and a medley of conversations in French, Arabic, and Armenian. I am on an Air France flight heading into a breathtaking September sunset.

Blinking sleep from my eyes, I peer at a small video screen embedded in the seat before me. The image of a small gray plane heading west on a bright green background comes into focus. We are somewhere above the cities of Munich and Nuremberg. Place names that resonate, venues of lawlessness and lawgiving; specific, intimate, and local to those who dwell there, but freighted with international and historical meanings for humanity since the end of World War II.

These German cities are deeply implicated in the journey I am undertaking and the research project I am pursuing: an ethnographic study of the processes and structures of international humanitarian law. I want to find out how the placeless principle of universal jurisdiction can be applied to lawless places like the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps in Beirut, where a massacre claimed over a thousand innocent lives 21 years ago this week. I want to know if it is possible for international justice to have a local address.

...

MORE: http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1929.shtml

[mmm]

1. Sabra and Shatila: we must never forget

[Malikshah]

2. People obviously have forgotten

Based upon the responses to this..

People have forgotten, or wish to forget.

I for one will never forget. The events of Sept 1982 are reason enough to discount anything Sharon or those that work with/for him say as being truthful or in the best interests of peace.

[beanball]

3. Sharon

I believe was the defense minister during the massacre at Sabra and Shatila refugee camps in Lebanon.We all pay homage to the 9/11 victums,where is the outcry about 9/21?,shame on this planet,all the victums of 9/21 were God's children just as the 9/11 were.

[beanball]

4. thats victims not victums

I need some tums after reading about that bloody butcher of Shatila and Sabra.

[DuctapeFatwa]

5. Thanks. May the survivors find peace and healing

And may the day come soon when Ariel Sharon is transported swiftly and humanely to the Hague.

[tinnypriv]

6. Just swiftly is fine

;-)

[Malikshah]

7. Yep---I was right

Some folks just want to try and sweep this one under the rug.

For shame.

[nn2004]

8. For a more honest account of Sabra and Shatila

http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/History/Sabra_&_Shatila.html

When Israeli soldiers ordered the Phalangists out, they found hundreds dead (estimates range from 460 according to the Lebanese police, to 700-800 calculated by Israeli intelligence). The dead, according to the Lebanese account, included 35 women and children. The rest were men: Palestinians, Lebanese, Pakistanis, Iranians, Syrians and Algerians. The killings came on top of an estimated 95,000 deaths that had occurred during the civil war in Lebanon from 1975-1982.

Ironically, while 300,000 Israelis demonstrated in Israel to protest the killings, little or no reaction occurred in the Arab world. Outside the Middle East, a major international outcry against Israel erupted over the massacres. The Phalangists, who perpetrated the crime, were spared the brunt of the condemnations for it.

By contrast, few voices were raised in May 1985, when Muslim militiamen attacked the Shatila and Burj-el Barajneh Palestinian refugee camps. According to UN officials, 635 were killed and 2,500 wounded.

[Malikshah]

9. Please, spare us

The propaganda....could you keep a straight face when the link was posted.

how's about this. www.indictsharon.net


Hmm witness accounts...oops. sorry, they must be liars... damn biased victims.

Denial of a massacre. How telling.

[nn2004]

10. electronicintifada.net is the master of propaganda

There is no denial:
The Lebanese Christian Phalangist militia was responsible for the massacres that occurred at the two Beirut-area refugee camps on September 16­17, 1982

electronicintifada revisionism and propaganda only serve to rattle the sabre of hatred against Israel and Jews.

Please spare us the electronicintifada propaganda.

[Malikshah]

11. Hmmm

Oh, OK. and Israeli govt sites are just ducky.

Get a grip. Learn to take information and make your own informed judgement. Avoid the editorials and look at the facts.

B'tselem and Gush Shalom list the facts, documents, etc.

Electronicintifada has numerous resources that can be found on many government sites as well. Heck, they also use moreover technologies to provide links to news on the conflict--from whereever it comes.

Guess that's just not enough for some. They want their information packaged for them to feed their biases.

More to the point though-- Denial of a massacre--how telling.

[nn2004]

12. There is no Denial of a massacre

Read the following line from the story.......

"The Lebanese Christian Phalangist militia was responsible for the massacres that occurred at the two Beirut-area refugee camps on September 16­17, 1982"

Where is the denial? It's a CONFIRMATION for Christ sake.

I am not going to tell what's telling in your denial of "there is no denial".

[Malikshah]

13. The report you provide denies the death of thousands

If you wish to defend the "watered down" view you provide, go right ahead. It's denying the death of thousands. If you cannot see the difference between the two, well then, there's not much more to talk about is there?

BTW-- when did I provide a link to the electronicintifada?

the site I gave was different. Was this just more of the same in terms of changing the subject?

[MariMayans]

14. probably not..

most serious researchers put the death toll at around one thousand.

However the more odious nature of the Israeli propaganda piece is that it glosses over some points like that the IDF had already disarmed the camp, that you couldn't not know what the Phalangists had in mind when they went in, that you couldn't not see that the Israeli's had observation posts about 15 feet from where the massacres were occuring and watched and did nothing except fire illumination flares to help them out. It then goes on to list groups of armed factions of the Lebanese civil war fighting as a "massacre" to try and find some justification or equivalence for what happened there.

[Malikshah]

15. I agree with you to a point

My issue of thousands is based upon Red Cross numbers as well as other reports that came out. As it was a difficult process, due to the bulldozing of various parts of the area, etc. final numbers will not be easy to find.

Testimonials that came out in the lead-up to the abortive case against Sharon, however, add to the horror of the event. Simply put--there were a number of people who disappeared after the events in the camp. Witnesses describe these events, and no one has a firm answer as to where these folks ended up.