RUTGERS UNIVERSITY OFFICIALS CANCEL PALESTINE CONFERENCE

[LastDemInIdaho]

Today, Rutgers University officials have CANCELLED the Third National Student Conference of the Palestine Solidarity Movement, scheduled for October 10-12, 2003 at Rutgers University.

In canceling this widely supported conference throughout North America, the university administration has trampled on constitutional rights, muted free speech, and has betrayed its pledge to fairness and education.

This is an attack on peace and justice activists everywhere. It is an attack on our society as a whole and on our right to free _expression and assembly.

Palestine solidarity students and activists have the same right to assemble and hold a conference. They have the right to demand that their university is not invested in another Apartheid system, and that they are not party to the suppression of the Palestinian people. They have the right to express their views and be heard without intimidation and constant harassments.

http://www.internationalanswer.org/news/update/091303urgpalconf.html

This from the same people than banned Jewish speakers at their "peace" rallys and the ones that shout down Israel rallies held at universities around the country. They doth protest too much at times.

[Resistance]

1. Oh

now the real reason for your recent complaints against ANSWER come out: they criticize Israel, so you've gotta vilify them.

And here I was beginning to wonder if you actually had an issue to be taken seriously on. What was I thinking.

As for Rutgers, shame on them for shutting pro-Palestinian speakers out of the debate on campus.

[LastDemInIdaho]

2. Wrong

They can criticize Israel all they want but shouting down pro-Israel gatherings is wrong.

Rutgers has a policy against hate groups speaking on campus.

[Resistance]

7. ok bud

now you equate pro-Palestinian speakers with "hate groups"

:crazy:

[mddemo]

3. debate on campus

Yup they have the right to debate what they believe, but the university also has the right to say no, we dont want you here. it happens every day, would you say it ok for the Klan to hold a debate on the campus, probuably no.

[Violet_Crumble]

4. Are you comparing the Klan to the pro-palestinian movement?

If so, why?

This all seems pretty simple to me. The uni I'm going to had a talk by the ISM last week, and this week there's a meeting of a group called Jewish Students For Israel. Neither event was banned and neither event has drawn the attention of morons who want to pressure the uni into only allowing students to hear what the morons want them to hear...


Violet...

[mddemo]

5. comparison

yeah i am in a sort of way, what ive seen of this pro palestinian movement involves hatred towards a people different from them so i would say they share that trait with the klan.

[Violet_Crumble]

9. From what you've seen???

What would that be? The rantings of right-wing zealots on the internet whining about how racist opposition to Israels policies in the Occupied Territories is? Give me any shred of evidence that peace groups show hatred towards people different from them. I won't hold my breath waiting, as the membership of the ISM for example includes people who are Jewish and doesn't involve hatred or violence...


Violet...

[mddemo]

11. oakley dokley

the fact that the posted article states that they have turned up and shouted down pro israili speakers, the fact that in california, not sure which university it was they heckled and cajoled some jewish students and speakers. And i wouldnt call anybody who enables the likes of hamas, or shields a terrorist like Arafat as peace activists. Kinda remind me of the pro nazis back in Britain in the 30's.

[Violet_Crumble]

14. That wasn't from the article...

That was a little personal addition from LastDem. I'd say in the US it runs both ways and pro Israeli groups would try to shout down other groups and even worse try to pressure the unis into not letting them speak...

You wouldn't call anyone who enables Hamas peace activists? Neither would I. Of course there aren't any peace activists who do that. Also, calling Arafat a terrorist is a bit trigger-happy. I've been following the threads where Darranar has been asking for some proof that he and the PA are terrorists, and none's been forthcoming...


Violet...

[mddemo]

18. oops

your right it wasnt from the article, but to try and say that the egyptian arafat aint the daddy terrorist is nuts. I guess he just ran day care centers when the PLO and Fatah were running rampant.

[Violet_Crumble]

20. Arafat's NOT Egyptian...

He was born in Egypt to Palestinian parents. That makes him Palestinian....

Read carefully. I didn't say Arafat wasn't a terrorist. I ASKED you to provide some evidence from a credible source of him being a terrorist in his role as head of the PA. Clearly given yr response, you couldn't come up with anything...


Violet...

[mddemo]

21. arafat

so because his parents are palestinians he can live in palestine, therefore the jews have as much right as him to the land, got it.

so do you believe hes a terrorist or not.

i sure as hell do.

[Violet_Crumble]

24. He's Palestinian...

Get over it. If I'd been born in the US to Australian parents and then returned here, I'd be Australian. It's the same thing...

Do I believe he's a terrorist or not? I'm undecided, which is why I've been waiting for someone to provide some credible proof that he and the PA are terrorists. Sorry, but the blind assurances of folk who smear peace groups as hate groups don't carry any weight...


Violet...

[mddemo]

25. palestinian

ok so hes palestinian, you still havent answered about the jews who were born all over the world to parents from the region, or does that not count. And if you dont believe that arafat is a terrorist i suggest you go to a site called memri.org or com, it has translations of the local palestinian papers and other arab periodicals. It should give you a shock.

[Violet_Crumble]

27. Why should I bother answering a stupid question like that?

It had zero to do with whether Arafat is Palestinian or not....

Memri is a credible source? Thanks for the funniest comment of the day....

Violet...

[mddemo]

29. lol

now that takes the biscuit, do you actually know what memri is, they translate arab newspapers, no editorial, no comment, just the translations. As to the question im asking you do the jews have a right to be there also, or is it only the palestinians.

[Violet_Crumble]

34. You can read Arabic and Hebrew??

How would you know what it's translating?And yes, I know what MEMRI is and have an idea why it's the darling of such garbage as CAMERA and 'honest reporting'...

Sorry, but yr question makes no sense. Are you talking about the Occupied Territories? If you are, I've already answered the question, though I assumed we were talking about Israelis and not Jews. You do realise that over 20% of the Israeli population isn't Jewish, don't you? So why the focus on Jews?


Violet...

[Equinox]

44. The Jews have a right to be there...

They don't have a right to kick anyone out of the land. They don't have a right to create and maintain a state for Jews only. They don't have a right to allow right of return to Jews only.

Big difference.

[Jackie97]

39. Actually Violet, there is a problem on campuses with this subject.

I just want to say that I do not support calling off this conference just because some people in the past and in other groups have done things, but there is a problem on campuses that isn't being discussed much. I just want to touch on it slightly.


It's just a few things I dug up.

http://www.jewishsf.com/bk030124/sf08.shtml

“On campuses, "You can see signs that not only say
'Stop Israel,' you can see signs that say 'Stop the
Jews' and it's interchangeable," Tobin said Wednesday.

Note: Notice the saying of "Stop the Jews". It's not just "Stop Zionists", but Jews in general.

http://www.antisemitism.org.il/english/articles/na.htm

“These anti-Israel activities, which, include
dissemination of propaganda and harassment of Jewish
students and faculty, deviates far beyond what would
be acceptable and legitimate criticism of Israeli
policies and takes the form of unbridled hate attacks
on Jews and the Jewish State.”

Note: I won't say that attacks against the "Jewish state" is anti-semitism, but what about the harassment of Jewish students and faculty?

“The Jews are accused of controlling the United
States.”

Note: That argument is often made as the supposed reason of why the U.S. supports Israel.

“Very often, criticism of Israel has boiled over into
violence and harassment of Jewish students and faculty
members. On several of the campuses, for example in
California, Jewish students are fearful for being
attacked. The obvious lack of desire on the part of
university authorities to confront this
pro-Palestinian violence in effect encourages it.”


http://www.cleveland.com/living/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/living/1061890398254900.xml
“Half a world away, activists at San Francisco State
University have passed out depictions of "Palestinian
Children Meat," a can "made in Israel" according to
"Jewish rites."

My note: Some of you all might not completely get what
was being said there. For centuries, it’s been said
that Jews kill children, put them in their Passover
bread, etc. In this, they’re claiming that
Palestinian children have been turned into food for
“Jewish rites”. That’s “Jewish rites”, not
“Pro-Israeli” rights, not “Zionist rites”, or “Israeli
Rites”, that’s “Jewish Rites”. It’s centuries old
blood libel.

"My job has become overwhelming," Feuer said. "On
college campuses, things have gone off the charts.
Cleveland State has had a string of incidents. Kent
State is very, very anti-war. There is a rock there
students are allowed to paint, usually fraternity and
sorority stuff. Just this week, it's 'I hate Jews.' "

Sort of off of the subject, but still interesting to read because it's related.

http://www.campus-watch.org/article/id/266

Don't get me wrong, I do support "pro-Palestinians" having the freedom of speech to advocate stuff like divestment from Israel. However, some "peace activists" actually are hate mongers. It was this argument that was placed months ago about why universities that allow criticism of Israeli policies should be defunded (Does anybody remember bringing that up on here months ago?). So, both sides have a problem. The Jews and "Pro-Israelis" on campuses have the problem that some "Pro-Palestinians" will promote hatred towards them, and cause them to not be safe. The "Pro-Palestinians" have a problem with possibly being silenced by others who don't want them to talk, and use the campus anti-semitism as an argument against their being allowed to talk. I say that there are comprimises that need to be made to keep both sides safe and with their rights in tact.

Of course, this stuff isn't just on campuses, but this is where anti-semitism and attempts to silence "Pro-Palestinians" are happening. Plus, this thread is pretty much about a campus event.

[Darranar]

40. I think a lot of that stuff...

is simply propaganda to smear the pro-Palestinian activists. Some of it isn't, of course; "pro-Palestinian" activists like David Duke are unquestionably anti-semitic. I do think, however, that that kind of anti-semitism is far less common than some would let us think.

[Jim Sagle]

6. The Klan is dead. The pro-Pal movement is a lively hate group.

[mddemo]

8. funny as hell

one of the best comebacks ive heard in a while, congrats

[Violet_Crumble]

10. Actually, that post of Jim's ain't nuthin' but shit...

Sure it was funny, but as a clever come-back it was lame and as Jim labels anything the slightest bit critical of Israeli policy as *hate*, I'm kinda curious why yr congratulating him for it...

Violet...

[mddemo]

12. comeback

well its simple, its because i agree with him,

[Resistance]

13. darn

At first I thought you might have some credibility.

But there it just went out the window.

[mddemo]

15. credibility

Ah the old cry, if i dont agree with you then i have no credibility. Not to worry though, ill wear your disgust as a badge of honour.

[Violet_Crumble]

17. There's a few pro-Israeli posters here who do have credibility...

You however are not one of them....


Violet...

[Jackie97]

41. To add to what Violet said.

"Pro-Israelis" who want credit need to make actual arguments, not one-liners.

Next, they need to be honest in their debate tactics. Believe it or not, you can do it!

[Violet_Crumble]

16. And of course you can't explain why you agree with him...

without resorting to outlandish and false claims...


Violet...

[mddemo]

19. agreement

real easy for me this one, i agree with him simply because of what ive seen of these organisations, it rates as hatred to me. ergo they are hate groups. see that wasnt so hard.

[Violet_Crumble]

22. What have you seen of these organisations?

I asked you this before and you totally ignored the question. Wake up. Criticism of Israels policies in the Occupied Territories isn't hate, no matter how many times you blindly repeat it...

You want to prove peace groups are really hate groups, show us all some proof instead of blindly insisting it's that way....


Violet...

[mddemo]

23. proof is in the pudding

having the delight of living in the burbs of DC, i spend a lot of time on the Mall, earlier this year i happened to catch the rally these Haters were having, couldnt believe the crap they were spouting, zionist plots for this and that. jews doing this and that. Now who am i to believe you or my lying eyes.

[Violet_Crumble]

26. So which peace group organised this Hate-fest?

I'm not the slightest bit interested in what some deluded individuals do, but in what the groups positions are. So, what was the group that organised that event? I'd like to read a bit more on them...

Violet...

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Violet_Crumble]

35. Why are you suddenly talking about individuals and not the groups?

You were close enough to take note of everything that was said, but wasn't able to take note of the name of the groups organising without having to jot down names? No offense, but I reckon yr story's a bit on the whiffy side. I've got a friend who I trust who's had some experience of anti-semitism in some groups, but she possesses some intelligence and realised that the groups themselves and their cause wasn't the one of hate, but it was down to the individuals trying to infiltrate the groups and hijack them for their own purposes. While I believe what she told me, I don't believe yr story's accurate....


There's a loony-tune fringe element in many groups. If you can't comprehend the difference between an organisation and a group and view them as the group itself and it's aims, then you need to start paying a bit more attention to what the group itself is saying and not the fringe elements who attach themselves for other purposes.

Does this mean that you think if a uni hosts a workshop or talk, that every individual that turns up is a representative of the group itself?


Violet...

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Gimel]

43. really?

Are idiologies in conflict? \sarcasm

Seems you can't live with that, can you. Not even in cyberspace.

[Scurrilous]

47. Lest you forget......

MESSAGE BOARD RULES (SHORT VERSION)

1. This is a message board for Democrats and other progressives.


I could link you to a number of threads on Free Republic expressing sentiment similiar to what mddemo is expressing. When asked to name peacegroups posing as 'hategroups' mddemo replied: " an anti war demo, organised by various socialist groups, i think answer was one, free mumia, lots of palestinian groups, to be honest i thought they were all nuts so i didnt jot down names." Sounds like pure unadulterated Freeperish to me.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Darranar]

36. Pro-Palestinians are vicious hate groups!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

Those vile peace protesters who actually care about the Palestinains and are humanitarian! They don't think israel is always right! Therefore, they're anti-semitic!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

On this, you're completely wrong.

And guess what: Quite a few pro-Israelis I know ARE racist.

[Gimel]

30. Vast difference

There is a great difference between "a talk by the ISM" and a three day annual conference. From what has occurred in other universities on the east coast lately in ISM conferences, it sounds like an indoctrination course and could involve instruction in political activism of the ISM sort. This definitely should be banned on a university campus.

[mddemo]

32. concur

I have a serious problem with the indoctrination of kids, i think you should be learning stuff, not getting involved with these hate groups, as a kid we had pro IRA groups trying to convince us to join the cause, funny though, most of the guys saw them for what they were and joined the army to defeat them.

[dudeness]

33. you reside in Belfast mddemo?

your broad definition of "hate groups" is interesting..by this do mean those that expose political opinion that differs to your own? or are they genuinely advocating political change by violent means?

[Darranar]

38. No, actually he resides in...

annapolis, look at his profile.

But yah, I think his definition of hate groups are people who have views radically different from his.

[Gimel]

31. Welcome to DU

Thanks for posting, mddemo

[eablair3]

37. the klan?

well, i've read the first few posts here, and the likely pro-Israel posters have equated the Palestinians Solidarity movement with "hate groups" and now "the Klan".

pathetic, but expected.

Israel steals and takes the Palestinians' land, Forcibly moves them from their homes. Bulldozes their homes. Kills thousands. andm now who exactly is the "hate group"?

[Equinox]

46. We live in a topsy turvy world, eablair3

:eyes:

[drdon326]

48. Appartently.....

The ISM (who gave us Saint Rachel) is moving their
pathetic little hate-fest to Ohio st. univ.

[Darranar]

49. "hate-fest...?"

Oh, please.

:puke:

[Lithos]

50. Locking

Too many stereotypes and broad based innuendos being thrown around, some of which are indirectly aimed to include people on this board.

Yes there are small groups of people, both pro-Palestinian and Pro-Israeli, who harbor hate and antipathy towards the other side. However to imply either side is monolithic in their composition, that these small sub-groups represent the prevailing belief, and that these groups are comparable to the Klan is absurd.

Lithos
FA/NS Moderator
Democratic Underground