Salameh won a scholarship, but can't enter Israel to use it

[bemildred]

Sawsan Salameh was born to a family of limited means in the Palestinian village of Anata, east of Jerusalem. Despite her family's financial problems, Salameh completed high school and went on to Al-Quds University in Abu Dis, where she obtained bachelor's and master's degrees in chemistry. Recently, Salameh won an outstanding student scholarship to pursue doctoral studies at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.

However, due to the sweeping ban on the entry of Palestinian students into Israeli institutions of higher education, Salameh will not be able to begin studying this year. According to the coordinator of government activities in the territories, this decision was made around a month ago. However, Salameh also cannot study in the West Bank, because none of the universities there offers a doctoral program in chemistry. And in any case, many students at West Bank universities are also unable to get to their classes, because of the separation fence and army checkpoints.

On Tuesday, Salameh and Access (Gisha), an association that advocates freedom of movement in the territories, petitioned the High Court of Justice against this decision. The petition demanded that Salameh's application to begin her studies be reviewed in a thorough and straightforward manner. It also asked the court to cancel the sweeping ban on the entry of Palestinians into Israel for the purpose of studying - a ban that prohibits all Palestinians from studying in Israel, regardless of whether or not they pose a security risk.

Salameh submitted two requests for entry permits, which were both rejected. Her adviser, Professor Rafael Levine, also sought to obtain permission for her to enter Israel. According to Levine, she must enter Israel to conduct her research. The Association for Israeli-Palestinian Scientific Cooperation, an organization that comprises leading scientists and Nobel Prize winners from around the world, including from Israel and the Palestinian Authority, submitted a similar request. These requests were rejected as well. The responses made no claim that there was any kind of intelligence information against Salameh.

Haaretz

[wellst0nev0ter]

1. But, But, The Palestinians Kidnapped A Teacher!

If they learn to control themselves and give up their hostilities towards education, then and maybe then will they be allowed to walk those hallways. :sarcasm:

[Solo_in_MD]

2. This moves me not

Consider this:
- The PA insists they are sovereign state (of sorts).
- There is no international law or mandate that requires a nation to allow in citizens from another country.
- Saudi Arabia does not allow in people with Israeli passports. Neither does Iran or Syria.

Given the above, what Israel is doing is well withing its discretion as a sovereign nation. I see no difference between what it is doing and what Saudi Arabia et al does.

Since the PA remains at last report unwilling to recognize Israel, I have no problem with Israel cutting off any and all transit and communication. Note that an Israeli soldier is still being held in Gaza and the Qassam rocket attacks are still occurring, though with much less frequency.

If the PA were to recognize Israel, take control of their notional territory, release the kidnapped IDF soldier, and stop the rocket attacks, this would not be happening. The answer to the problem is theirs to implement.

[Behind the Aegis]

3. It's only bad when Israel does it...

...all other examples of the exact same thing are "misdirection" and "smoke and mirrors."

[idontwantaname]

4. hate to burst your bubble

but israelis are wandering all throughout the west bank, all day and sometimes all night... and we both know they do more than just wander.

[Behind the Aegis]

8. and?

I didn't see anyone disputing that issue.

[idontwantaname]

9. *sigh*

"It's only bad when Israel does it"

what is "it"?

[Behind the Aegis]

11. "it"

'It,' in this case, refers to the actions taken by Israel not granting the Palestinian in the story passage into Israel.

[idontwantaname]

14. you mean to say

rejecting a person on the basis of their ethnicity and/or birthplace of origin?

[Behind the Aegis]

15. Like Saudi Arabia.

Doesn't make it right, but hardly symptomatic to Israel.

[Englander]

17. Aren't those egs of 'anti-Israel propaganda'?

Y'know, what you've just agreed with, & used as an argument, namely that there's policies in
place that involve ejecting a person on the basis of their ethnicity and/or birthplace of origin,
and that Israel is the same as Saudi Arabia in that regard? :)

[Behind the Aegis]

19. .

:crazy:

Point?

[Englander]

21. Do you actually realise what you're saying?

Because you just agreed that there's a form of apartheid at play in the policies of the GoI. You
agreed that the policies are discriminatory. You just agreed with the comment that there are
decisions taken that exclude a person from entering Israel, solely based on their ethnicity. You
then compared Israel with Saudi Arabia, one of the most devout & insular countries in the ME.

I thought you said you were 'pro-Israel'?

[shergald]

23. Inadvertent justification of racism.

That's a rather odd admission from someone who is proIsraeli, given the broadsides it has received over the years, including from South Africa, that its policies are racist.

Please, let us not hear it again, that Israel is the only democracy in the middle east, a favorite saying of Netanyahu. As US history shows, democracy is no panacea when it comes to human and civil rights. That takes work and Israel ought to get busy if it really wants to be a democracy.

[Behind the Aegis]

30. Seems it happens here all the time.

Especially when it goes the other way. It's OK to not allow Jews into your land, or throw them all out. However, when it is done by Israel, it is a big "no-no". Hypocrisy.

Israel is one of the only democracies in the region. Being a democracy doesn't make one perfect, or even right.

[idontwantaname]

31. dont put word in the palestinians mouth

does the PA bar "jews" or israelis from entering the west bank? no.

so whats your argument?

[Behind the Aegis]

34. Did you see the word "Palestinian" in that post?!

I didn't think so. So, you might want to stop putting words in people's mouths!

[idontwantaname]

35. it is or is it not

a palestinian who is being barred from entering israel based on ethnicity?

[Behind the Aegis]

37. is it or is it not

possible to speak beyond the scope of what is happening?

[idontwantaname]

39. vagueness is a poor defense n/t.

[Behind the Aegis]

40. so is misstating someone's position. n/t

[idontwantaname]

41. correct.

and the PALESTINIANS (not the iranians or lebanese ect) THE PALESTINIANS dont bar israelis or "jews" from entering the west bank. why is ths palestinian in the story above being rejected?

[Behind the Aegis]

42. do see post #40.

[Englander]

49. Why not try addressing the actual topic?

Is that too much to ask, that the actual case this article is about should be discussed? In case
you're not sure, it's about a Palestinian student, Sawsan Salameh, who wants to study for a doctorate
in theoretical chemistry at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.

[geek tragedy]

43. Citizenship, not ethnicity. Israel is entitled

to prevent non-citizens from entering its territory.

Of course, the occupation is wrong and there should be no Israelis in the pre-1967 Arab lands.

[idontwantaname]

46. i understand and appreciate the acknowledgment in the last line. n/t

[Lurking Dem]

53. So it'll be okay with you

when a sovereign Palestine excludes Israeli Jews from entering their country.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Englander]

60. '

[Englander]

64. I think you should tell that to bta, as well?

Since he agreed that the basis of this discrimination was due to a person's ethnicity;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=150832&mesg_id=150860

[geek tragedy]

44. You understand that there is no right of foreigners

to enter into a sovereign state, right?

For instance, French citizens can't study at US schools without a visa. The US can ban all citizens from France from studying at its schools, and vice versa.

[Englander]

50. That's pretty much irrelevant.

The US isn't occupying Provence.

Btw, apparently there aren't any doctoral programmes at Palestinian unis. Which is another factor
that makes it very clear how blatantly prejudiced this policy is.

'October 11, 2006

Israel Bars New Palestinian Students From Its Universities, Citing Concern Over Security

By DINA KRAFT

>snip

Like Ms. Salameh, most of the students came to Israel seeking doctorates because there are no doctoral programs at Palestinian universities.

Palestinians who have money or receive fellowships tend to study abroad for doctorates. But for those without financial support it is an impossible dream, and women who come from traditional Muslim homes are often forbidden by their families to live abroad alone.

No figures are available for how many Palestinians studied in Israel in past years, but Israeli officials and Palestinian rights advocates say there appear to have been a higher number before the mid-1990’s, when travel restrictions began to be imposed.

Dr. Suheil Ayesh, 43, from the Gaza Strip is among the Palestinians who received a master’s degree and a Ph.D. at Hebrew University. He is now a visiting professor of molecular biology and gene therapy there and divides his time between Jerusalem and Gaza.

He is authorized to enter Israel only by permit, which he must renew every month.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/11/world/middleeast/11palestinians.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print

[geek tragedy]

55. The problem is the occupation, not Israel barring

Palestinians from entering Israel.

[Behind the Aegis]

29. The US does the same.

As has many nations, during various times, espcially war.

[idontwantaname]

32. yes, and every time a nation profiles like this it is wrong.

end of story.

[Behind the Aegis]

33. I didn't say it was right, now did I?!

[idontwantaname]

36. no but youre running fast as the devil to excuse/justify it. n/t.

[Behind the Aegis]

38. no, I am simply pointing out that it happens all over.

[Englander]

52. So, why are you trying to justify it?

You've already agreed that this policy is discriminatory, based on ethnicity, & that 'it's not
right', so why are you trying to justify it?

[Englander]

47. A simple 'no, I don't' would have sufficed.

You're trying to justify a policy that's discriminatory, a policy that could be described as racist.
Why?

[idontwantaname]

5. for arguments sake

agreed that some arab states dont allow folks in if they have an israeli stamp in their passport, however the israelis follow similar guildelines. hardly an argument as the PA does not bar or ban israelis from entering or even living in the west bank (see:what is a settler?).


the rest of your post is just fluff.

[Solo_in_MD]

12. Hardly, unless you consider the reqts a peaceful border "fluff"

There is also no requirement for reprecocity.

My point is that she has no right to study in Israel, there is no onus on Israel to allow her to, and the ban that is being fretted over is directly traceable to the behavior of the PA.

[idontwantaname]

13. let the record show:

Posted by Solo_in_MD

There is also no requirement for reprecocity.

My point is that she has no right to study in Israel, there is no onus on Israel to allow her to, and the ban that is being fretted over is directly traceable to the behavior of the PA.

[breakaleg]

6. If your premise that there is some sort of soverign state for

Palestinians, why are Israeli's living there? Where are it's borders?

[Solo_in_MD]

10. In dispute...

[TheBaldyMan]

18. excuse me for asking a dumb question but since when have the '67 borders

been in dispute, who is disputing them and on what authority?

[Englander]

20. That isn't a dumb question at all.

Well, it may be a dumb question in the context of i/p, where up is down, war is peace, & the occupied
territories acquired by the means of war are disputed, but of course, the only bunch of folks who
consider them disputed, are the occupying powers (the Israelis) & those who support them.

[Englander]

16. All of that is misdirection, & 'info' that's been stripped of context.

Which isn't terribly surprising, since there isn't really any way to support this case, there isn't
any way to justify this case of the student being discriminated against, on it's merits. Therefore,
a whole box of red herrings are introduced.

[shergald]

24. It is standard Israeli propaganda.

In the US we have been favored with the usual propaganda tricks, decontextualization being one of them, reframing issues being another, and many more. Israel is a victim and this student is a potential enemy. Disappointing that so many Israeli academics have gone along with the ruse. But not all of them have. Everyday, more and more are speaking out about the sham.

[Solo_in_MD]

27. It is scarcely discrimination

Israel has no requirement to admit Palestinians. Until the the PA gets a handle on things its almost reasonable.

[idontwantaname]

28. is anyone else reading what this guy is writing???

how are you still on this board?!?!?!

[Englander]

48. Wtf?

[The Magistrate]

7. Let Us Hope, My Friend

That the Court rules in a spirit of equity and mercy in this matter. As a general practice, the policy being enforced here is not an unreasonable one, but in this particular case, it would seem to be the best course to set it aside, and it would be unfortunate if this is not done.

[bemildred]

22. This recalls to me Mr. Traven's position on passports and the like.

I confess it is a matter that I am unresolved about, we cannot really allow everyone to crowd into the best spots, so to speak, and yet one finds the whole business of governments and their dishonest management of the issue, repellent.

In this particular case, it is the failure to give hard work and merit their due reward for reasons that appear base, bigoted, and political that smacks of hypocrisy.

I would share your hope that wiser heads prevail here.

[The Magistrate]

25. Ah, Yes, 'The Death Ship', Sir

That is a very small fraternity nowadays....

[bemildred]

26. Not the sort of allusion you can make every day,

with confidence that it will be understood,
true, my friend.

[geek tragedy]

45. The response would be that to do so would

open Pandora's box. Many a suicide bomber has come from a good family and possessed good academic credentials, without an indication that they were prone to such measures.

[Englander]

51. Suicide bombers?

Where did that come from? That doesn't have anything to do with this case, & it shows how bankrupt
this policy is, that any attempts to justify it involve using such a repugnant strawman. For shame,
Geek.

[geek tragedy]

54. Why do you think they're not letting Palestinian

students into Israel? It didn't occur to you that it might be related to security concerns?

[Englander]

56. For shame, Geek. n/t

[geek tragedy]

58. That's not much of an argument.

I'm not saying this woman is a terrorist--by all appearances she isn't one.

[Englander]

61. I don't care if you think it's much of an argument or not.

I'm not going to give 'unknown unknowns' any credibility. There really isn't any justification for this
policy of not allowing this Palestinian student to study in Israel, something which yourself (and
others) have proved in this thread, due to the repeated reluctance to actually address the relevant
topic, that's the refusal of the Israeli authorities to allow the Palestinian student, Sawsan Salameh
to complete a chemical doctorate in Israel.

[geek tragedy]

62. You're conflating policy and individual instances where a policy

is applied.

The policy here is to not allow Palestinian students to study in Israel. The motivation behind that policy is obvious--virtually 100% of Palestinian suicide bomb attacks inside Israel are conducted by Palestinians of that age group.

This story is about an individual application of that policy. The question is whether there is any way they can create exceptions to that policy without undermining its purpose.

[Englander]

63. No, you're doing that.

You're completely ignoring my point about *justification* and are, well, justifying a blatantly
prejudiced policy with the 'unknown unknowns'. Whether or not something that might possibly
happen, or has happened before, & will therefore happen again, even though there's no definitive way
of knowing that there *will* be attacks by students, isn't enough of a reason to apply a
discriminatory policy that is self-defeating. It is in the interests of Israelis & Palestinians that
students are able to gain a professional education, & this policy gets in the way of that happening.

'>snip

Dr. Raphael Levine, the Hebrew University chemistry professor who accepted Ms. Salameh as his student, said he understood Israel’s security concerns but was baffled by the ban. “I think it is in Israel’s interest to strengthen the Palestinian middle class, and strengthening academic institutions in Palestinian areas is one sure way of achieving that,” he said.

“There is a Jewish tradition in which value is put on learning; Mr. Ben-Gurion said he wanted Israel to be a shining light to all nations,” he said, referring to Israel’s first prime minister. “You have to deliver on these things.”

“Both by sentiment and cold practicality, it is not in our interest to act like this,” Dr. Levine said in a telephone interview from Los Angeles, where he is teaching at the University of California.

Meanwhile, Ms. Salameh, a high school science teacher, continues her life in Anata. She attends meetings as an elected member of the municipal council and is working to set up the village’s first women’s center.

She longs to begin work on her doctorate and one day become a role model for other Palestinian women and girls as the first woman to be a Palestinian professor of chemistry in the West Bank.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/11/world/middleeast/11palestinians.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print

[geek tragedy]

65. The Palestinians and Israelis are in a state of undeclared

war. Of course the Israelis are going to be biased against the people who send suicide bombers into buses and pizzerias.