Israelis versus Palestinians: The Scorecard Since the Second Intifada.

[shergald]

MIFTAH - Statistics and numbers documented September 28th, 2000 - October 09, 2006

Published October 11, 2006

http://www.miftah.org/report.cfm

Total Number of Palestinian deaths: 4524
Children: 941
Women: 280
Men: 3303

Palestinians killed by Jewish settlers: 72
Palestinians killed as a result of Israeli shelling: 837
Deaths as a result of medical prevention at Israeli checkpoints: 117
Of them stillbirths (born dead at checkpoints): 31

Number of Palestinians extra-judicially assassinated: 579
Of them bystanders killed during extra-judicial operations: 257

Total Number Israeli deaths: 1113
Children: 113
Women: 305
Men: 603

Settlers: 213
Soldiers: 322

Area Distribution of Palestinian deaths
West Bank (including east Jerusalem): 2194
Gaza Strip: 2330

Palestinians injured by Israeli forces and settlers: 30714
Live ammunition: 8923
Rubber/Plastic bullets: 6379
Tear gas: 6451
Miscellaneous: 8974

Number of Palestinians permanently disabled or maimed by injuries: 3530

Educational Statistics
School Students killed: 576 Injured: 3471 Detained: 669
University Students Killed: 199 Injured: 1245 Detained: 720
Teachers killed: 32 Injured: 54 Detaind: 176

Destruction of Palestinian Property (dunum = 1000 m² )
Confiscated land: 250226.9
Razed land: 74543
Estimated number of uprooted trees: 1187762
Homes demolished: 7777

Sources

<1>: Palestinian Ministry of Education and Higher Education
<2>: Applied Research Institute Jerusalem (ARIJ)
<3>: Palestinian Red Crescent Society (PRCS)
<4>: Palestinian Centre for Human Rights (PCHR)
<5>: Palestine Monitor

[LiberalArkie]

1. I am so tired of my tax dollars going to support that rouge nation Israel

[papau]

2. a tree every 24 by 20 foot plot? It did not seem that forested - but no

doubt there are areas that are very forested that I just did not see.

Glad to see that the Palestinian Initiative for Global Dialogue and Democracy, MIFTAH, strongly condemns the escalating Israeli aggression against the Gaza Strip, I didn't see any criticism of the activities of Palestinian groups on the site - or any discussion of what the Hamas commanders were doing with all that bomb and rocket material in that car last week.

At some point I hope both sides will forget the past and look at what they can agree on for the future that does not include killing folks on the other side. But that may take a while as Hamas has rejected any stopping of terror attacks on Israeli civilians and has rejected the idea that there can be a state called Israel that is as Jewish as the surrounding states are Islamic.

[Tom Joad]

4. It will have to include not taking people's homes and land as well.

Killing is not the only form of violence.

Land confiscated by Palestinians: 0 Dunams
That is a very significant number.

[Tom Joad]

5. Trees were not only destroyed on confiscated land.

Sometimes the Israeli army just destroys and leaves. So i don't understand where your figures come from.

[papau]

13. simple division of destroyed trees by razed land - it assumes attacks on

olive groves - which does happen with sad regularity - do not amount to more than a few hundred or perhaps a few thousand trees.

[Tom Joad]

16. Human Rights Groups would disagree.

The settlers themselves have destroyed hundreds of trees.
The Cat bulldzozers of the government has done much more damage. I think the figure is accurate.
So we have figures arrived at by respected Human rights groups or other sources. or we can site "papau at DU". Folks have a choice.

1,500 Number of olive trees destroyed by Israeli soldiers and settlers in the Palestinian village of Hares, trees that have been the economic and ecological backbone of the town's existence for centuries (The Jewish Unity for a Just Peace Campaign: "Break the Silence", 2002) (Just ONE Village)
http://www.uiowa.edu/~uichr/publications/HR_index_fall03.html

The IDF destroyed numerous citrus, olive, and date groves, and irrigation systems in Gaza, stating that Palestinians had been firing Qassam rockets from those areas. Human rights groups reported that over the past 3 years, 2,400 Palestinian olive trees were destroyed, mainly by Israeli settlers.
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2005/61690.htm
US State Dept. Again just talking about Gaza, not what Israel has done throughout the intifadah in all the OT.

And more from that same source:
Human rights monitors reported that the IDF provided greater protection to Palestinian farmers from Israeli settler attacks than they did in the past. Still, Palestinians complained that the IDF measures gave insufficient time to complete the harvest and that they were limited in their ability to protect their property by curfews and travel restrictions. On August 22, Israeli settlers inflicted considerable damage to Palestinian homes and cars near the settlement of Homesh, which was scheduled to be evacuated. No settlers were charged. In October and November, Israeli NGOs documented attacks by settlers on Palestinians and their property in Salem, Hebron, and the Khoruba Valley resulting, among other damage, in destruction of approximately 300 olive trees. Israeli authorities took no action against the settlers

And then there is this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/11/28/woliv28.xml

About 11,000 Palestinian farmers will lose all or some of their land holdings to the fence. Sharif Omar, from the village of Jayous, near the Israeli town of Kochav Yair, said: "I have lost almost everything. I have lost 2,700 fruit and olive trees. And 44 of 50 acres I own have been confiscated for the fence."

His village lost seven wells, 15,000 olive trees and 50,000 citrus and other fruit trees. "This area is the agricultural store for the West Bank. They are destroying us," he said.

From the American Friends Service Committee:
Between 2000-2004 alone, Israeli bulldozers uprooted 400,000 olive trees in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. 3 Olives are the major source of income for 7000 Palestinian families, many of whom will now lose their livelihoods.
http://www.afsc.org/israel-palestine/Wall-and-Olive-Harvest.html
__________________________________

I can do more research later if you wish. But i am sure won't change your assessment. Fantasy dies hard, and i don't think you will ever believe anything different. It's like Americans who think that the US is not committing war crimes in Iraq, same refusal to see reality.

Others can choose Papau for their source, or human rights or other more reliable (in some people's estimation) sources for their info.

[Englander]

8. Please elaborate on this, papau.

Glad to see that the Palestinian Initiative for Global Dialogue and Democracy, MIFTAH, strongly condemns the escalating Israeli aggression against the Gaza Strip, I didn't see any criticism of the activities of Palestinian groups on the site - or any discussion of what the Hamas commanders were doing with all that bomb and rocket material in that car last week.

How much of a search did you do? I was going to have a look thorough the site, to provide any egs
of any comments on the subject you mention, but if you've already had a look, there wouldn't be any
need. So, how thorough was the search?

Here's more about Miftah from an objective source, Israeli - Palestinian ProCon.org;

Name: MIFTAH
The Palestinian Initiative for the Promotion of Global Dialogue & Democracy

Position: Pro Two-State Solution to the question "What are the solutions to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict?"
Reasoning:

"The solution remains simple and attainable, having been repeatedly defined and having become part of a global consensus. The two-state solution is still possible, though becoming increasingly more difficult with the expansion of settlements, by-pass roads, and the apartheid wall throughout Palestinian territory. The bi-national state as a de facto solution will become the only option should Israel continue its expansion and its refusal to withdraw to the June 4, 1967 lines and remove the settlements of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Territoriality will give way to demography, and the issue then will become one of democracy, with Zionism forced to reexamine its most basic premises.

Jerusalem, both East and West, can become an open city and the shared capital of two states, thus encapsulating the essence of peace and regaining its stature as a city much greater than itself and not subject to exclusive possession or greed of acquisition. The Palestinian refugees must be granted historical, legal, moral, and human recognition and redress in accordance with international law and the requirements of justice. There is no need to reinvent the wheel, but there is a need for the will and courage to act against all adverse forces."
- Hanan Ashrawi, Secretary General of MIFTAH
"Peace in the Middle East: A Global Challenge and a Human Imperative,"
November 05, 2003

Organization
A. Description:


"The Palestinian Initiative for the Promotion of Global Dialogue and Democracy, MIFTAH, is a non-governmental non-partisan Jerusalem-based institution dedicated to fostering democracy and good governance within Palestinian society through promoting public accountability, transparency, the free flow of information and ideas, and the challenging of stereotyping at home and abroad. Established in December 1998, with Hanan Ashrawi as its Secretary-General, MIFTAH's aim is to serve as a Palestinian platform for global dialogue and cooperation guided by the principles of democracy, human rights, gender equity, and participatory governance."

B. Mission:

* Reinforcing the Palestinian state-building process through ensuring democratic practices, the rule of law, and respect for human rights.
* Promoting the free access and flow of information.
* Empowering Palestinian women and youth leaders in different fields and promoting the rights and responsibilities of citizenship.
* Providing a forum for innovative public discourse and free debate on issues of Palestinian concern, bringing together decision-makers and members of civil society.
* Increasing global awareness and knowledge of Palestinian realities by providing reliable, accurate and comprehensive information, policy analysis, strategic briefings and position papers.
* Complementing and solidifying international efforts pertaining to cooperation and conflict-resolution based on genuine understanding of the facts, the issues at stake, and the implications of foreign policy decisions on national, regional and global realities.

http://www.israelipalestinianprocon.org/Biosorg/miftah.html

[papau]

14. I feel in love with Hanan back when she was almost an "unknown" - she is

the essence of good in my opinion - she is also very very partisan - she is also a person that will let a statement that is known to her as a likely/possible exaggeration be repeated if it will advance her cause. She is also a Christian. She is also NOT LIKE many in the area who will tell you "I had to lie to you or else you would not have done what I wanted" (when I first ran into this in the 70's I was shocked as the speaker was - and still is - a friend. It's an attitude that I dislike - but later found not that uncommon in US business - from all types including those not Arab or Muslim). Hanan tries to be truthful.



But the site is partisan. While the data is from Palestinian sources (and therefore any "error" is one off from MIFTAH),any discussion of the "errors" - which I did simply because I was pointing out the partisan nature of the site - is beside the greater and very basic point that what it is trying to show is true - that the Second Intifada has been a disaster for the Palestinians and that the side that they attacked with terror attacks has been the force that has caused the destruction of Palestine, as would be expected. It is a bit like saying I refused to finish a reasonable Taba agreement and went to war via terror, and the other side did not play fair.

As always info like this gets you nowhere - a bit like a KKK rally that inflames, but does nothing about making society better by getting folks to live together in peace.

As long as Hamas acts like an ass, nothing good will happen (which means as long as Hamas follows the wishes of the Syrian based Hamas "leaders", nothing good will happen). As long as "right of return" is demanded and then used as a justification to kill the Israeli civilians, nothing good will happen. Hamas is in power - and I would have voted for Hamas because of the massive corruption of Fatah - but it time for Hamas to realize that not all Palestinians are nuts that want to suffer until a pure "victory", as defined by Hamas, is achieved.

I await the return of sanity to the area, and the return to Taba and the path that almost solved, via the compromise of compensation and very limited return to Israel proper, but unlimited return to the West Bank and Gaza, the right of return demand.

Hanan is loyal to her people and to her government - she defended Arafat for years over the public airwaves. With Hamas in power she can do nothing more than she is doing for peace.

[breakaleg]

3. And yet Israel is miraculously the victim in all of this.

[Behind the Aegis]

6. Interesting choice of title.

Deaths being equated to a "scorecard."

[shergald]

7. Sometimes I can't help being cynical.

Poor title otherwise for this tragedy.

[Behind the Aegis]

9. perhaps not enough dead Israelis?

What will happen to your propaganda...er...information should a "9-11" happen in Israel and the numbers become equal? Will that make it "all better?"

[shergald]

11. So, you know all about cynicism too.

The problem with your version of cynicism, if I can put it this way, is that it is biased totally, 100% toward Israel. You have no positive feelings, not the slightest compassion, toward the plight of the Palestinian people, who have lived for 39 years surrounded by IDF, who have killed them for resisting it, while they continually appropriated their homes and farms to make way for Israeli settlements.

Glad to know that not all Israelis feel like you do.

[Behind the Aegis]

17. you know nothing about me...

...so stop pretending you do.

[eyl]

10. Reading that list

implies that every Palestinian killed was killed unlawfully - which is hardly the case.

Not to mention other inaccuracies, e.g., that they neglect to mention that some of the Palestinian deaths they count (205, according to B'Tselem) were killed by other Palestinians

For that matter, compared to B'Tselem's statistics, Miftah overcounts Palestinian deaths by about 500

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[eyl]

15. You notice that

you've just inflated the numbers by another 500.

As for "unlawfully", do you think that a Palestinian who's killed while trying to kill Israelis* should be considered the same as a Palestinian civilian? Because that's what the report says by implication.

*Come to think of it, the count of dead Palestinians also incudes those who killed themselves in the course of a suicide attack, yet the report never mentions that either.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lithos]

19. Please avoid gratuitous references to Nazi Germany

There is a vast smorgasbord of history to pull from that does not carry excess baggage to make a point.

Lithos
DU Moderator

[nicoll]

20. facts are good, but the green line is what is important

All of these facts are important, but can be open to interpretation when portrayed a certain way. What is important to me is that the green line created in 1967 to allocate land to the Palestinian refugees remains under Palestinian control. This means that all, every single Israeli settlement house build within the green line should be removed with out question a.s.a.p. Personally if I had it my way I would have them all evacuated and bull dozed tomorrow.
It is a disgrace that any settlements have been allowed to be build on land outside of Israel and the UN should have stooped it from happening in the first place. If there is someone who would like to justify the building of Israeli homes in the Gaza Strip (now removed) and the West Bank I would be happy to debate it with you. When I say all land inside the green line I mean the old part of Jerusalem as well, which I believe was allocated to the Palestinian refugees to control.

[Lithos]

21. Should have locked this earlier

Please note from the I/P guidelines, that the subject must be based on the title of the article/op-ed which is not true in this case.

Lithos
DU Moderator